Featured JonC's view of Substitution in the Atonement

Yes you liked a post arguing that reconciliation is not salvation.
Now that you have (rightly) equated reconciliation with salvation you can say that we are saved by His death. Welcome back to biblical Christianity.

 

Okay, show me that Scripture.

 

'Atonement' dies not mean 'reconciliation' either in English or Scripture.
Christ's atoning sacrifice of Himself opened the was for man to be reconciled to God. 'For He [God] made Him [Chrsit] who knew no sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.' The 'For' is the most important word.

 

From the OP: View of the substitution of atonement.

Would you buy/agree?

God created a being, the devil, who had the power of the death.

And that's what the devil, did, would do and is still doing. Therefore because of the devil having the power of, the death, God, before the foundation of the world, determined to:

Substitute himself as one subject to, the death, in order to destroy the devil and his works including, the death. 1 John 3:8 & Heb 2:14

How to do this? How about create a man, subject to, the death, give the man, a law, the power of the sin 1 Cor 15:56, sold under sin, take woman from the man, then send the Word born of the woman taken from the man as the Son of God subject to the power of death, having faith that sinless Son would give his sinless life (die the death of Gen 2:17) a ransom for that sold.

After three days and three nights give life again unto the Son raising him out of the dead (Sheol/Hades, incorruptible) thus setting the example for the destruction of the devil his works including the death. 2 Tim 1:10 and was made manifest now through the manifestation of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who indeed did abolish death, and did enlighten life and immortality through the good news, Romans 16:20 and the God of the peace shall bruise the Adversary under your feet (in quickness) quickly; the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen! 1 Cor 15:52-55 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed: for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality; and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up -- to victory; where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'

Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

 

Did something need to die in order for the devil and his works to be destroyed?

 

Why was man, created?

Why was man created, a little lower than the angels?

 

Just a thought for what it is worth.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58
1 Peter 1:18-20 having known that, not with corruptible things -- silver or gold -- were ye redeemed from your foolish behaviour delivered by fathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and unspotted -- Christ's -- foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, and manifested in the last times because of you,


WHY? before the foundation of the world

 

We are justified and redeemed by the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus

 

Another thought in a question, because of post 70

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

Did Jesus need to be made, "at-one-ment," with the Father?

 

Which all happened via His death as the Sin bearer for his own people upon the Cross!

 

Wow. We've already been through this. This isn't saying what you are saying at all. Let's do something that you constantly avoid doing . . . let's actually exegete a text.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Let's look first at it's context, in a letter to the saints in Rome, the Jewish saints primarily, but not exclusively.

Chapter 1: Their faith is commended and extolled, and their blessed estate, is contrasted with the estate of those who do not believe, and upon whom the wrath of God, not the peace of God, is revealed from Heaven. [Clearly, all mankind has not been reconciled.]

He is clearly at enmity with unbelievers . . .
Chapter 2: . . . jew and gentile alike . . .

Chapter 3: The Jews may make their boast in the law, but the law was not given to bring righteousness to the jews, it was given to exacerbate the sin of both jew and gentile. There is no righteousness apart from faith . . .​

Chapter 4: . . . as the narrative concerning our father Abraham testifies.​

Chapter 5: So, since we believers [not we mankind] have been justified by faith we believers have peace with God through Jesus, and by whom we believers have entered and celebrate this blessed estate of peace of which we were told in the first chapter.​

But we can also celebrate in tribulations, knowing we will never lose this estate. God's grace will carry us through them.​

Romans 5:9 How could we doubt that? If while under God's judgement Christ died for us, how much more now that we are justified by His blood, are we safe from wrath?​

Romans 5:10: And if we are in a safe place from wrath by His death, just think about how much his living will keep us there.
​

His death saves us from wrath. His death reconciles us [believers and no one else] to God. He ever lives to make intercession for us.

And therefore in our meetings, at the Lord's Table, we show His death, till He come.​

 

I agree with all this..

 

Yes. That is quite correct.

And this is right too. But note the word 'originally.' It does not mean that any more, and has not done so for a long time. Atonement can bring about reconciliation, but the two words are not synonymous.