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- Thread starter percho
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why is that sad? Is that not what is found in the bible?
KenH
Well-Known Member
No. The Bible teaches that salvation is wholly based on Christ and His finished work on behalf of God's elect. It is not of man in any way shape or form.
Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know the way of man is not in himself; It is not in man who walks to direct his own steps.
Jonah 2:9 Salvation is of the Lord.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
So what do you think is the gospel if it is not as stated in the bible? If you have a different version then you are holding to a false gospel.
You think God has to believe for you but that is not biblical, it is just what you read into the bible.
The Bible does assume “unregenerate people choosing God.” See Paul’s sermon to the pagan Athenians at
Act 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
Act 17:27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Act 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
Free will is found in these verses if you will just open your eyes. Do all men seek God, do all men repent? Some exercise their free will and reject God and some accept Him as Lord and savior. The only other option is that these are not true statements and that Paul and God were just being deceptive.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Have I ever said that man saves himself, NO. But the bible tells us that God saves those that trust in the Son. I know you know this as it has been pointed out to you a number of times. Why you keep ignoring this I do not understand.
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Now I realize that you have a real problem with the clear truths of the bible but just let go of your errant view and trust what the bible says.
KenH
Well-Known Member
You keep saying that salvation depends on you, not God. Such a large amount of human pride you are afflicted with. I understand, though. I used to be that way, too, until God gave me spiritual eyes to see and spiritual ears to hear the gospel of Christ.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Ah, but you do in so many words. You are refrained just enough to not admit it.
Acts of the Apostles 16:14 whose heart the Lord opened
Apparently, you believe that Lydia opened her own heart.
Acts of the Apostles 11:18 Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Apparently, you believe that the Gentiles did not need to be granted anything.
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him
Apparently, you believe that the Philippians didn't need faith to be given to them.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Apparently, you believe that the Father does not have to draw anyone, that you can just walk right on up based on your "free will".
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Actually it is not me, rather it is the bible that says my salvation depends on whether I accept or reject the free gift through faith. That is not pride my friend. I am humbled by the knowledge that God would save a sinner like me.
The fact that you continue to misrepresent what I have posted just shows me that you are not seeking truth but rather that I agree with your errant view. You do not even trust the scriptures.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Since you didn't answer me before, I will try again:
Just out of curiosity, why do you not capitalize the word, "Bible"?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Act 16:14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.
She already worshiped God and upon hearing the gospel trusted in the risen Lord.
Act 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."
Peter was explaining to the Jerusalem council what had happen when he presented the gospel message to Cornelius, a just man, one who feared God, trusted in Christ Jesus and God saved him, in other words granted him repentance to life.
Php 1:29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
These were already believers Php 1:1. The faith Paul is referring to is their continued faith in Christ Jesus so that they can withstand the trials that will come upon them for their faith. Many new believers have the idea that trusting Christ means the end of their battles. In reality, it means the beginning of new battles.
Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT BY GOD.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
All you need to do is just keep reading to find your answer. Those that hear and learn will come to the Son. The bible points this out to you numerous times, but you refuse to accept it.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why capitalize it? Do you think it is some mystic book that has special powers or that you have to worship it? You seem to be focusing on the wrong things.
KenH
Well-Known Member
So you regard the Bible as common? Just like any other important book, like other important books, such as, say, Don Quixote? Would you write the title of the book I just mentioned as don quixote?
KenH
Well-Known Member
You must look to Christ as the "LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS". Not to your own human righteousness. You are in the same failed state as the Jews who Paul talked about in Romans chapter 10. You are trying to establish your own righteousness and are ignorant of God's righteousness.
If is God's will, may He give you spiritual eyes and spiritual ears before you leave this present earth.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
That is not what I said but that is what you want to think so go for it.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
What are you on about? You seem to think you have an inside track to the understanding of the bible and more than that what God thinks.
You have just shown the arrogance that is endemic among calvinists. Your continued denial of scripture in favour of your philosophy is your blind spot.
I do wish you well, but do question your understanding of scripture.
Your gospel is graceless, which means it is not the gospel of God's Word. It is, however, your interpretation of the Bible, which no discerning Christian will ever agree with.
Sadly you remind me of the teachers in 2 Peter 2.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Sadly you continue to ignore what the bible says. To call the biblical gospel graceless really points out the errors in your theology and your thinking.
I am not doing an interpretation of the Bible, I just post scripture that points out your errors but you ignore all those and claim that they are wrong. The ones that do not agree with me are those of a certain theological bent.
I call your soteriology graceless. The Bible's gospel is salvation by grace alone. There is a vast difference between the Bibles gospel and your gospel.
You are certainly interpreting the Bible. You are doing a very poor job of it. You throw out grace and replace it with works. I have quoted your exact words. Words that are not found in the Bible...which shows you are interpreting the Bible. Silverhair, you are caught in your own words.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You can think what you want and you can and will continue to deny scripture to your detriment. Your misuse of scripture is well known and your un-Christian language is also. I do hope that your eyes will be opened to the truth but fear that your are so blinded that it will not happen for you.
The bible is to be our final authority but you do not accept this truth. You have elevated a man-made philosophy over that word of God. I do wish you well Austin as the goal you seek is not far from you but you must be willing to accept it.
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