Featured JonC's view of Substitution in the Atonement

Yep. Here are some truths:

1. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
2. There are none righteous, no, not one.
3. The wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God.
4. God will not punish the Righteous or acquit the unjust.
5. God is just and the justifier of sinners.

A doctrine that removes even one of those truths is a false doctrine.

It is not a problem to be solved, but a truth to accept.

God is just and the justifier of sinners.

 

I agree. Except I'd say Christ died for the ungodly. Your phone must be like mine.

 

Serious??? All theories of Atonement incorporates those truths (perhaps Penal Substitution Theory doesn't include the truth that God will not punish the just for the unjust).

 

1. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

We have all sinned. Sin (against God) is, by definition, falling short of the glory of God.

2. There are none righteous, no, not one.

See above. We fail to meet the standard of righteousness.

3. The wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The wicked simply will not inherit the kingdom of God. Also, flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God.

4. God will not punish the Righteous or acquit the unjust.

God will not punish the Righteous to acquit the unjust because both punishing the just and acquitting the unjust are abominations to God.

5. God is just and the justifier of sinners.

God is just. He will punish the wicked, they shall not enter His kingdom. They shall be cast into the Lake of Fire. God justifies sinners. He recreates the sinner, sprinkles clean water on them and they are clean, removes their old heart and gives them a new one, removes their old spirit and gives them a new one, puts His Spirit in them. There is nothing wicked about the Spirit of God.

 

"Sin" as used in Scripture is human sin. The wages of sin is death. How can sin be forgiven but by the shedding of blood?

Leviticus 17:11 - For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

All forgiveness is Christ centered. It is His blood (He is the Life, it is in Him everything holds together, everything came into being).

Christ had to die under the curse of man, under the bondage, under the powers of this World in order to redeem man from the curse.

 

I understand that you see a disconnection, but it is not there.

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

I completely agree with the passage as it appears in Scripture. That said, I am not sure that I agree with what you believe the passage teaches (I'm not sure what you think it teaches). I believe it teaches exactly what is written.

Perhaps the primary difference between you and I is the role we assign to Scripture (the actual text). I take an approach that many dismiss as I sincerely believe primary doctrines are written in God's Word, hence the test of doctrine should be what is written in the text of Scripture.

I freely admit that I don't hold some doctrines as you hold your doctrine of Atonement (they cannot pass the test of Scripture as actually existing in the Bible). But these are things that I find less important and issues of interpretation.

When it comes to the Atonement, I believe the doctrine we teach has to be present in the text of God's Word because it is a primary doctrine (a doctrine upon which other doctrines are developed, or through which other passages are interpreted).