The New Perspective on Paul

[canadyjd]

You can run but you cannot hide:

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we also have obtained our introduction [or access] by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we celebrate in hope of the glory of God.

You do not go "into this grace in which we stand" by being already within God's grace.

…..”I will reference 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which says [in part] we are chosen "through faith in the truth."…...

…”having been justified by faith…” means it has occurred in the past

…”we have peace with God…” means we are already in a right relationship with God (salvation).

That right relationship with Gid, through faith in Jesus, gives us access to the enabling grace that allows us to stand in the midst of persecution.

That this grace is “enabling grace” that comes after salvation is demonstrated by the context seen in the very next verse

Romans 5:3 “not only this, we glory in tribulations….”.

peace to you

 

[37818]

You can post taint so till the cows come home, God's word repudiates your bogus view. God's word says faith provides our access into the grace in which we stand. That means our faith (if credited by God) causes us to have access to His grace. In other contention is false doctrine.

No need to change the subject, no one said or suggested God's grace is a work. No one said Grace is merited. Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:2-5, Romans 11:6 are non-germane to the actual issue.

You claim our faith, if credited by God, does not provide access into God's saving grace. Scripture says otherwise. That is the issue.

You are wrong. Furthermore you accuse without showing or explaining my alleged error. I contend a belief itself does not make anything to be true or not true. And a work is a cause which has an effect. A belief in and of itself has no effect. Romans 4:5 makes it clear belief is not counted as work. God counted Abraham's belief in His promise as righteousness.

no one said or suggested God's grace is a work.

No one except you here.

 

[canadyjd]

….

As far as your unreferenced claim faith is the result of God's grace in choosing the person for salvation, that once again is the opposite of what scripture teaches, and I will reference 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which says [in part] we are chosen "through faith in the truth." .

Once again, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 does not say God chose us for salvation based on belief in the truth.

It says we we chosen “from the beginning for salvation” through (1) sanctification by Hily Spirit (2) belief in the truth.

The two points mentioned here are referring to the “salvation” not to the “choosing”.

The “salvation” that God chose us for from the beginning is obtained by

(1) sanctification of Holy Spirit:Sanctification literally means to be “set apart” for a specific purpose toward God. God Holy Spirit sets certain chosen people apart from the rest.

(2) belief in the truth: The right relationship which God has chosen for these specific people that are set apart by Holy Spirit is obtained by belief in the truth. It is God Holy Spirit that convicts is of the truth.

So, this passage does not say God Chose us for salvation based on belief in the truth.

This is why reading the entire passage in context is so important instead of chopping it up and rearranging words to fit your belief.

peace to you

 

[Van]

…”having been justified by faith…” means it has occurred in the past

…”we have peace with God…” means we are already in a right relationship with God (salvation).

That right relationship with Gid, through faith in Jesus, gives us access to the enabling grace that allows us to stand in the midst of persecution.

That this grace is “enabling grace” that comes after salvation is demonstrated by the context seen in the very next verse

Romans 5:3 “not only this, we glory in tribulations….”.

peace to you

Good grief.
Being provided access to God's grace occurred in the past!
Still ignoring "into the grace" thus post salvation enabling grace is precluded.
The context precludes your view.

 

[Van]

You are wrong. Furthermore you accuse without showing or explaining my alleged error. I contend a belief itself does not make anything to be true or not true. And a work is a cause which has an effect. A belief in and of itself has no effect. Romans 4:5 makes it clear belief is not counted as work. God counted Abraham's belief in His promise as righteousness.

No one except you here.

You still ignore the Ephesians 1:4 rebuttal.
I have shown you your errors non-stop.
The issue is not what a work is, but whether faith (our credited by God faith) provides our access to God's grace. You claim Romans 5:1-2 does not say it does.

 

[canadyjd]

Good grief.
Being provided access to God's grace occurred in the past!
Still ignoring "into the grace" thus post salvation enabling grace is precluded.
The context precludes your view.

The context is explained in verse 3 where Paul says they “glory in tribulations”. The context clearly demonstrates the “grace in which we stand” refers to “enabling grace” given to Christians after salvation.

peace to you

 

[37818]

You still ignore the Ephesians 1:4 rebuttal.

Where is it? You did not post it to me.

You claim Romans 5:1-2 does not say it does.

No, I did not!

 

[Van]

Where is it? You did not post it to me.
No, I did not!

The first point of difference centers on the meaning of Ephesians 1:4 which says we (born again believers) were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Particular Reconciliation maintains that being chosen in Him means being chosen as foreseen individuals. General Reconciliation maintains that being chosen in Him means Christ was chosen to be the Lamb of God before the foundation of the world and anyone subsequently redeemed by the Lamb was corporately chosen when He was chosen individually, because you do not choose a Redeemer without a plan to redeem, thus everyone to be redeemed was corporately chosen when His Redeemer was chosen.​

 

[Van]

The context is explained in verse 3 where Paul says they “glory in tribulations”. The context clearly demonstrates the “grace in which we stand” refers to “enabling grace” given to Christians after salvation.

peace to you

Good Grief!

You can deny scripture till the cows come home, and claim "magical context rewrites the very words of God per Calvinism's dogma. Romans 5:3 addresses an additional topic, thus does not contextually alter Romans 5:1-2. Is their no respect for truth?

 

[37818]

. . .foreseen individuals.

That interpretation is not Biblical. Whom God foreknows is. If that what you were to mean, it would seem we might agree. Corporate is made up of chosen individuals in time. 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

 

[Aaron]

A work is something that one can think or do or feel.

The whole point of grace is that God is the cause of salvation. It is not of ourselves, period.

 

[Van]

That interpretation is not Biblical. Whom God foreknows is. If that what you were to mean, it would seem we might agree. Corporate is made up of chosen individuals in time. 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

That interpretation is biblical. Your view is unbiblical. You appear to not understand what the Greek word translated foreknow means, it means to know something beforehand, so information acquired or formulated in the past being utilized in the present.
Corporate is not made up of individuals but a group sharing a common trait, like those who believe in Christ. Thus when God chose His Redeemer, He corporate chose anyone subsequently redeemed by Christ. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 refers to our individual election for salvation not our corporate election.

 

[kyredneck]

A work is something that one can think or do or feel.

Precisely:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Ro 7

8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 14

 

[Aaron]

Precisely:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Ro 7

Abraham was called while a Gentile (uncircumcised).

 

[kyredneck]

Abraham was called while a Gentile (uncircumcised).

29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

 

[37818]

That interpretation is biblical. Your view is unbiblical. You appear to not understand what the Greek word translated foreknow means, it means to know something beforehand, so information acquired or formulated in the past being utilized in the present.
Corporate is not made up of individuals but a group sharing a common trait, like those who believe in Christ. Thus when God chose His Redeemer, He corporate chose anyone subsequently redeemed by Christ. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 refers to our individual election for salvation not our corporate election.

You lack understanding. My view is strictly Biblical. I perceive you deem your own view to be Biblical. You seem unable to see were we agree. And apparently unwilling to actually discuss a single point of difference.

God is fully omniscient. God does not need to foresee anything. Without a beginning foreknows the end of every individual. But we who know God, only do so from a beginning in time for each one of us.

 

[37818]

Abraham was called while a Gentile (uncircumcised).

And was give the covenant of circumcision some 24 years later. Genesis 17:9-25. Abraham was always a Hebrew. Genesis 14:13.

 

[Van]

You lack understanding. My view is strictly Biblical. I perceive you deem your own view to be Biblical. You seem unable to see were we agree. And apparently unwilling to actually discuss a single point of difference.

God is fully omniscient. God does not need to foresee anything. Without a beginning foreknows the end of every individual. But we who know God, only do so from a beginning in time for each one of us.

On and on folks, new subject after new subject, insult after insult, but no discussion of the issue.

Your view is unbiblical. You appear to not understand what the Greek word translated foreknow means, it means to know something beforehand, so information acquired or formulated in the past being utilized in the present.
Corporate is not made up of individuals but a group sharing a common trait, like those who believe in Christ. Thus when God chose His Redeemer, He corporately chose anyone subsequently redeemed by Christ. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 refers to our individual election for salvation not our corporate election.

 

[37818]

Your view is unbiblical. You appear to not understand what the Greek word translated foreknow means, it means to know something beforehand, so information acquired or formulated in the past being utilized in the present.

Bye. You do not discuss, you accuse. And lie.

 

[Van]

Bye.

Your view is unbiblical. You appear to not understand what the Greek word translated foreknow means to know something beforehand, so information acquired or formulated in the past being utilized in the present.

Christ was put to death according to God's redemption plan formulated and thus foreknown before creation.
That Christ would redeem believers was known before creation, thus the redeemed as a group were foreknown.

We must run from the false doctrines of the dark ages, and study God's word.

Let us start with the Old Perspective on Paul, that we are justified by faith alone, and nothing else contributes to being chosen for salvation. Thus the OPP is Sola Fide (Faith Alone).

So does the NPP teach we will or do something (other than put our faith in Christ) to be saved, transferred from being in Adam, to being placed within Christ's spiritual body? Nope.

So the actual idea (actually many ideas) focuses on what part "works" (things the born anew believer does after salvation) plays in sustaining or enhancing their salvation. Some of the posting Calvinists on this board seem to be unfamiliar with how post salvation good works contributes or enhances the blessings of our salvation. They ask questions like what additional rewards are received because of engaging in effective ministry. I kid you not. They seem unfamiliar with the glory of serving Christ.