Born In Sin

[percho]

This also relates back to my original question concerning Ps 51 of which no one wants to address.

I understand this could be construed as speculative. I ask, Any more speculative than say trinity or eternal son?

Were Cain and Able brought forth the same day? From whom, Gen 4:1 does it appear Eve believed Cain came out of? At the moment of eating why the guilt of nakedness? See nakedness elsewhere in the Bible. Even in the teaching of Jesus why does it appear that adultery stems from the woman? Is Prov 30:20 relative to Gen 3?

In Ps 51:5 Was brought forth in iniquity first, because Eve was known by Adam before she brought forth, thus Able was conceived in sin all because of having eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --

Who had they been communing with?

Would all that mean the need for redemption was related to birth and also the means, of, redemption was related to birth?

Gal 4:4,5 YLT -and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law, that those under law he may redeem, that the adoption of sons we may receive;

What was the plan before the foundation of the world?

Did Adam fall from something?

 

[Brightfame52]

Strange question.

No, my parents concieves me in the normal way people are conceived.

Christ came in the likeness of man. He "became flesh" (this is what the word "incarnation" means).

But Christ did not come into being. He is God. The Word became flesh, but the Word was in the beginning with God and the Word was God.

Thats a difference already between us and Christ birth. Do you believe He was born of a virgin without knowing a man ?

 

[JonC]

Did Adam fall from something?

Depends on what you mean. Adam gave preference to his desires. His eyes were opened as he became like God knowing good and evil.

 

[JonC]

Thats a difference already between us and Christ birth. Do you believe He was born of a virgin without knowing a man ?

He was born of a virgin. But He was made as we are. Sin is a spiritual, not a biological, issue.

 

[percho]

IMHO sin is more than transgressing the Law (although transgressions are sins, Paul explains that Gentiles sin even though they do not transgress the Law as they are not under the Law).

To answer your question about Psalm 51, no. We ate conceived in sin, but this conception is not itself sin.

I think it is and here is why. If the first virgin had been with child and had been adulterated by intercourse, that is being known, before bringing forth it would result in non virginity conception being in sin. Which was so unto the virgin Mary. Now why the angel coming to Joseph in a dream. A virgin will conceive and bring forth. God with us. Call his name Jesus. And Joseph did as the angel said, Two things.

 

[JonC]

I think it is and here is why. If the first virgin had been with child and had been adulterated by intercourse, that is being known, before bringing forth it would result in non virginity conception being in sin. Which was so unto the virgin Mary. Now why the angel coming to Joseph in a dream. A virgin will conceive and bring forth. God with us. Call his name Jesus. And Joseph did as the angel said, Two things.

An interesting (but by mo means conclusive) topic is the virgin birth in ANE paganism and the Hebrew religion. Both held to a messiah being born of a virgin, but neither did so to accommodate a doctrine of sin. I just find it interesting simply because a vurgin born savior is not unique to our faith. But under our forensic mentality the consequences (or purposes) become something entirely unique.

 

[Brightfame52]

He was born of a virgin. But He was made as we are. Sin is a spiritual, not a biological, issue.

So Christ wasnt biologically born like other people, is that correct ? And if not why ?

 

[Brightfame52]

Depends on what you mean. Adam gave preference to his desires. His eyes were opened as he became like God knowing good and evil.

Did Adam disobey God ?

 

[JonC]

So Christ wasnt biologically born like other people, is that correct ? And if not why ?

Yes. He was born of a virgin, but He was "made like His brothers in every way".

 

[JonC]

Did Adam disobey God ?

Yes.

God created Adam and then put him in the Garden of Eden. God commanded Adam not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowdge of good and evil. Adam transgressed (disobeyed) God's command.

This was the first sin, and through this sin death entered the world (the wages, or consequences, of sin is death).

Do you go to a church?

 

[percho]

Yes. He was born of a virgin, but He was "made like His brothers in every way".

Does PS 51:5 apply to every soul born of woman other than Jesus?

Conceived out of Spirit as Holy. Was anything necessary in order for him to be brought forth, Holy?

 

[JonC]

Does PS 51:5 apply to every soul born of woman other than Jesus?

Conceived out of Spirit as Holy. Was anything necessary in order for him to be brought forth, Holy?

All, including Jesus (He was made sin for us, the Word became flesh).

 

[37818]

Jesus was a descendant from Adam through His virgin mother Mary.
Hebrews 4:15, ". . . For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. . . ."

The Jews understood, in John 5:18, ". . . said . . . that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. . . ."

When Jesus was called good, in Luke 18:19, ". . . Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. . . ."

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes. He was born of a virgin, but He was "made like His brothers in every way".

Not quite, He was made in a virgin, was that the norm for every other man made ? Why was He made of a virgin when the rest of us wasnt. Why did God do it that way ?

 

[Brightfame52]

All, including Jesus (He was made sin for us, the Word became flesh).

So was Christ literally made sin ?

 

[JonC]

Not quite, He was made in a virgin, was that the norm for every other man made ? Why was He made of a virgin when the rest of us wasnt. Why did God do it that way ?

No, Scripture is pretty clear that He "was made like us in every way". The reason He was born of a virgin is that His Father is the Father in Heaven.

The reason is as a sign (a virgin birth is a sign that the father is not a human father). This is obvious as Scripture states this to be the reason (and the concept of a virgin birth was a common factor across faiths).

 

[JonC]

So was Christ literally made sin ?

In the context provided, yes. He was literally made flesh and blood ("flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God"), under the curse. He was made a little lower than the angels.

I'll ask again, do you attend a church? You seem to be asking of very basic aspects to of our faith (which is fine) but rather than seeking answers on online forums it is best to be a part of the Body. Online forums are no substitute for church.

 

[Brightfame52]

No, Scripture is pretty clear that He "was made like us in every way". The reason He was born of a virgin is that His Father is the Father in Heaven.

The reason is as a sign (a virgin birth is a sign that the father is not a human father). This is obvious as Scripture states this to be the reason (and the concept of a virgin birth was a common factor across faiths).

So why was He born of a virgin and other people were not ? Why not a human Father like the rest of us ?

 

[Brightfame52]

In the context provided, yes. He was literally made flesh and blood ("flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God"), under the curse. He was made a little lower than the angels.

I'll ask again, do you attend a church? You seem to be asking of very basic aspects to of our faith (which is fine) but rather than seeking answers on online forums it is best to be a part of the Body. Online forums are no substitute for church.

Being made flesh and blood is not being made sin. Flesh and blood isn't sin. And do i intend church has nothing to do with this thread born in sin. Please keep your questions related to this topic. Now flesh will inherit the kingdom, but it wont be natural flesh, it will be spiritual. Christ has flesh now doesnt He ? Lk 24:39

.
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

So explain yourself, how was Christ in that context literally made sin. Was He made a sinner in your opinion ? Yes or no

 

[JonC]

So why was He born of a virgin and other people were not ? Why not a human Father like the rest of us ?

Because we represent our fathers. While Christ most often used the title "Son of man" He is also the Son of God.

We did not exist prior to our conception. He did.

More importantly is the relationship between father and son. Christ is a descendent of Adam (completely man) but He is also the Son of God (completely God).