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Semi-pelagian

A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism are theological perspectives relating to the nature of man. Pelagianism is a heresy, a false teaching. It is the teaching by a fifth-century monk named Pelagius who taught that man’s nature was not affected by the fall of Adam and that all people are still free to equally choose between right and wrong. When Adam sinned, his offspring did not inherit the sinful nature. Pelagianism denies the doctrine of original sin and also denies that people are sinners by nature (Ephesians 2:3). It states that people become guilty of sin only when they choose to sin. It was officially condemned by the church at the Council of Ephesus in A.D. 431.

Semi-Pelagianism is a modification of the Pelagianism heresy. According to this position people are fallen, sinners by nature, that they are not free to equally choose God or not, but they are able to make the initial step towards believing in God. Along with semi-Pelagianism is the doctrine of prevenient grace which says that God gives grace to a person, enabling the person to freely make a choice of God. This doctrine was officially condemned by the Council of Orange in 529 A.D.

Pelagianism
Man: Man is not a sinner by nature

Semi-Pelagianism
Man: Man is a sinner by nature

Pelagianism
Free will: Man’s free will is fully able to choose God apart from God’s grace

Semi-Pelagianism
Free will: Man must have God’s grace to enable a person to believe in God or not

Pelagianism
Salvation: Man is capable of being saved via his own free will choice

Semi-Pelagianism
Salvation: Man is naturally able to initiate movement towards believing in God in order to be saved

Pelagianism
Grace: God’s grace is a response to man’s initial effort

Semi-Pelagianism
Grace: God’s grace is a response to man’s initial effort

What are Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism?
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism are theological perspectives relating to the nature of man. Pelagianism is a heresy, a false teaching. It is the teaching by a fifth-century monk named Pelagius who taught that man’s nature was not affected by the fall of Adam and that all people are still free to equally choose between right and wrong. When Adam sinned, his offspring did not inherit the sinful nature. Pelagianism denies the doctrine of original sin and also denies that people are sinners by nature (Ephesians 2:3). It states that people become guilty of sin only when they choose to sin. It was officially condemned by the church at the Council of Ephesus in A.D. 431.

Semi-Pelagianism is a modification of the Pelagianism heresy. According to this position people are fallen, sinners by nature, that they are not free to equally choose God or not, but they are able to make the initial step towards believing in God. Along with semi-Pelagianism is the doctrine of prevenient grace which says that God gives grace to a person, enabling the person to freely make a choice of God. This doctrine was officially condemned by the Council of Orange in 529 A.D.

Pelagianism
Man: Man is not a sinner by nature

Semi-Pelagianism
Man: Man is a sinner by nature

Pelagianism
Free will: Man’s free will is fully able to choose God apart from God’s grace

Semi-Pelagianism
Free will: Man must have God’s grace to enable a person to believe in God or not

Pelagianism
Salvation: Man is capable of being saved via his own free will choice

Semi-Pelagianism
Salvation: Man is naturally able to initiate movement towards believing in God in order to be saved

Pelagianism
Grace: God’s grace is a response to man’s initial effort

Semi-Pelagianism
Grace: God’s grace is a response to man’s initial effort

What are Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism?
Click to expand...
Would not many hold to the Semi view then today in american Christianity?
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Saying most churches hold to semi-Pelagianism is a logical fallacy.

To understand semi-Pelagianism read De gratia, not CARM.

Members need to ask:

Do most churches believe man's nature is corrupt but not to the extent that men cannot turn to God apart from the work of the Holy Spirit convicting them of sin?

I doubt it. But either answer is a logical fallacy. At least it is a fallacy based on honesty rather than misnomer.

Semi-Pelagianism holds several ideas -

1. Due to the Fall men have corrupt natures.
2. Men's nature is not corrupt to the extent they cannot turn to God of their own unaided volition (without being drawn to God, without the Spirit working in their lives, etc.)
3. Once a man turns to God, God graces them with the ability towards conversion.
4. Baptism is necessary for conversion.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Semi-Pelagian there are disagreements.
I am of the persuasion the typical translation of Romans 9:11, ". . . For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, . . ." to be Pelagian.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
37818 said:
Semi-Pelagian there are disagreements.
I am of the persuasion the typical translation of Romans 9:11, ". . . For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, . . ." to be Pelagian.
Click to expand...
How would you translate the verse?
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
Saying most churches hold to semi-Pelagianism is a logical fallacy.

To understand semi-Pelagianism read De gratia, not CARM.

Members need to ask:

Do most churches believe man's nature is corrupt but not to the extent that men cannot turn to God apart from the work of the Holy Spirit convicting them of sin?

I doubt it. But either answer is a logical fallacy. At least it is a fallacy based on honesty rather than misnomer.

Semi-Pelagianism holds several ideas -

1. Due to the Fall men have corrupt natures.
2. Men's nature is not corrupt to the extent they cannot turn to God of their own unaided volition (without being drawn to God, without the Spirit working in their lives, etc.)
3. Once a man turns to God, God graces them with the ability towards conversion.
4. Baptism is necessary for conversion.
Click to expand...
Many today do seem to hold in churches that we can turn to God based upon our own decision, as we first approach God, and then he responds with saving faith and grace!
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
JesusFan said:
Many today do seem to hold in churches that we can turn to God based upon our own decision, as we first approach God, and then he responds with saving faith and grace!
Click to expand...
How many? Where ate these located? Are they mostly in a particular denomination?

I ask because I have attended many churches, but have yet to attend any that taught we turn to God without the Spirit working in our lives.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
How many? Where ate these located? Are they mostly in a particular denomination?

I ask because I have attended many churches, but have yet to attend any that taught we turn to God without the Spirit working in our lives.
Click to expand...
They would say will seek after God first, and then He responds with saving grace towards them!
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
How many? Where ate these located? Are they mostly in a particular denomination?

I ask because I have attended many churches, but have yet to attend any that taught we turn to God without the Spirit working in our lives.
Click to expand...
We have a person on this board that believes people can turn to God without the Holy Spirit drawing them. Indeed, any drawing might be seen as God forcing them.
This person has argued that Romans 1 does not state that humans cannot come to God by general revelation alone. That person has argued that people can repent by general revelation alone.

Jon, there is much wrong in our churches, both theologically and morally. We have many churches that have played the harlot with the world.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
JesusFan said:
They would say will seek after God first, and then He responds with saving grace towards them!
Click to expand...
I mean, which churches?

I know most are not Calvinistic, but which churches are really semi-Pelagianistic?
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
AustinC said:
We have a person on this board that believes people can turn to God without the Holy Spirit drawing them. Indeed, any drawing might be seen as God forcing them.
This person has argued that Romans 1 does not state that humans cannot come to God by general revelation alone. That person has argued that people can repent by general revelation alone.

Jon, there is much wrong in our churches, both theologically and morally. We have many churches that have played the harlot with the world.
Click to expand...
We may. I just have either not encountered that member or have not encountered that member making the claim.

Most I've seen here are more akin to Van, holding that God draws all men.

It is also important to consider what one means by "general revelation". Many view this as God revealing to men enough for them to turn to Him (along the lines of Arminianism rather than Semi-Pelagianism as Semi-Pelagianism also holds that men, although corrupt, are not so corrupt as to substantiate an inability to turn to God).

I agree with you about the state of our churches. If we were not sure all we'd have to do is look at US politics and churches.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
I mean, which churches?

I know most are not Calvinistic, but which churches are really semi-Pelagianistic?
Click to expand...
I would say that any church teaching people that saying the sinners prayer equals salvation is a church that is semi-pelagian in nature.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
AustinC said:
I would say that any church teaching people that saying the sinners prayer equals salvation is a church that is semi-pelagian in nature.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't. Semi-Pelagianism had nothing to do with the "sinners prayer". I'd just say such a church would be wrong.

Growing up we heard the "sinners prayer" a lot, but never as a mode of salvation. That said, some here have reported attending churches where it was essentially an incantation.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
37818 said:
Never practiced does not mean never done. "Practiced" is for the plural. "Done" is singular.
Click to expand...
Then I disagree. The unborn have not committed a sinful action, therefore saying they have not committed sin actions is unnecessary.
 
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