Only Those Whom the Father Draws to Christ

[KenH]

he bible is the authority

I agree. The Bible is the authority.

 

[KenH]

if you did then you would hold to that faulty theology since you do it says otherwise

I did not say otherwise.

Also, I mentioned this in a private message to you a few days ago and now I will definitely implement it, regardless of whether you do so. I will no longer interact or respond to any post you make on this post from this point forward, but I will add that if you ask me a direct question in a post on this board, then I might decide to respond to it. Other than such a case, our interaction on this board is finished. I wish you well.

 

[Revmitchell]

I did not say otherwise.

Also, I mentioned this in a private message to you a few days ago and now I will definitely implement it, regardless of whether you do so. I will no longer interact or respond to any post you make on this post from this point forward, but I will add that if you ask me a direct question in a post on this board, then I might decide to respond to it. Other than such a case, our interaction on this board is finished. I wish you well.

that is up to you

 

[Silverhair]

It is in the nature of fallen man that they sin(which is why Christians continue to sin even after regeneration). It also that fallen nature that makes them spiritually dead and unable to respond in true saving faith unless God gives them life in the Son. That is the source of life - the Son: 1 John 5:11-12 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Verse 12 states if one is not in the Son of God, then he has not life, he is dead spiritually. Thus, a fallen sinner must be born again. There is no other way to obtain spiritual life.

But if they are "dead" as you say in post # 66 then they can not sin. Your trying to speak out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.

Your words Ken post #66 "Just why do you think that God used the term "dead" if he didn't mean dead as human beings understand the word from their time on this earth?"

So did man always understand dead as physical or spiritual? You only have two choices.

 

[Silverhair]

How do you possibly arrive at the conclusion that I am still adhering to Pelagianism?

What I said is that you like Augustine seem to have not left your old theology behind. If you want to call yourself a Pelagian that is your choice.

 

[KenH]

What I said is that you like Augustine seem to have not left your old theology behind. If you want to call yourself a Pelagian that is your choice.

What in what I have posted causes you to think that I am a Pelagian? You have my curiosity up.

 

[Silverhair]

What in what I have posted causes you to think that I am a Pelagian? You have my curiosity up.

Read what I posted, not what you are reading into it.

"What I said is that you like Augustine seem to have not left your old theology behind. If you want to call yourself a Pelagian that is your choice."

 

[KenH]

But if they are "dead" as you say in post # 66 then they can not sin.

They are dead spiritually. They are alive physically and as long as we humans are alive physically, then we sin. There is also the whole matter of the imputation of the sin of Adam to all of his merely human descendants.

"That God had decreed sin should enter this world through the disobedience of our first parents was a secret hid in His own breast. Of this Adam knew nothing, and that made all the difference so far as his responsibility was concerned. Adam was quite unacquainted with the Creator’s hidden counsels. What concerned him was God’s revealed will. And that was plain! God had forbidden him to eat of the tree, and that was enough. But God went further: He even warned Adam of the dire consequences which would follow should he disobey--death would be the penalty. Transgression, then, on the part of Adam was entirely excuseless. Created with no evil nature in him, with a will in perfect equipoise, placed in the fairest environment, given dominion over all the lower creation, allowed full liberty with only a single restriction upon him, plainly warned of what would follow an act of insubordination to God, there was every possible inducement for Adam to preserve his innocence; and, should he fail and fall, then by every principle of righteousness his blood must lie upon his own head, and his guilt be imputed to all in whose behalf he acted."

- from Arthur W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God

(emphasis mine)

 

[KenH]

Read what I posted, not what you are reading into it.

"What I said is that you like Augustine seem to have not left your old theology behind. If you want to call yourself a Pelagian that is your choice."

So I guess you are not going to satisfy my curiosity as to why you think I am still a Pelagian. Oh well.

 

[Silverhair]

So I guess you are not going to satisfy my curiosity as to why you think I am still a Pelagian. Oh well.

READ THE POST.

"What I said is that you like Augustine seem to have not left your old theology behind. If you want to call yourself a Pelagian that is your choice."

 

[KenH]

READ THE POST.

"What I said is that you like Augustine seem to have not left your old theology behind. If you want to call yourself a Pelagian that is your choice."

Let me try to spell it out for you quite clearly:

I used to be a Pelagian by what I was raised on.

I now am a Christian by the grace of God.

 

[Silverhair]

They are dead spiritually. They are alive physically and as long as we humans are alive physically, then we sin. There is also the whole matter of the imputation of the sin of Adam to all of his merely human descendants.

"That God had decreed sin should enter this world through the disobedience of our first parents was a secret hid in His own breast. Of this Adam knew nothing, and that made all the difference so far as his responsibility was concerned. Adam was quite unacquainted with the Creator’s hidden counsels. What concerned him was God’s revealed will. And that was plain! God had forbidden him to eat of the tree, and that was enough. But God went further: He even warned Adam of the dire consequences which would follow should he disobey--death would be the penalty. Transgression, then, on the part of Adam was entirely excuseless. Created with no evil nature in him, with a will in perfect equipoise, placed in the fairest environment, given dominion over all the lower creation, allowed full liberty with only a single restriction upon him, plainly warned of what would follow an act of insubordination to God, there was every possible inducement for Adam to preserve his innocence; and, should he fail and fall, then by every principle of righteousness his blood must lie upon his own head, and his guilt be imputed to all in whose behalf he acted."

- from Arthur W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God

(emphasis mine)

"Just why do you think that God used the term "dead" if he didn't mean dead as human beings understand the word from their time on this earth?" your post # 66 Ken

So I will ask you again.

So did man always understand dead as physical or spiritual? You only have two choices.

I know you like your Calvinist hero's but try to answer this one yourself.

 

[Silverhair]

Let me try to spell it out for you quite clearly:

I used to be a Pelagian by what I was raised on.

I now am a Christian by the grace of God.

OK, so we just have different views of Soteriology.

 

[Brightfame52]

If He meant dead as you say then you have a problem. See a corps can neither say yes or no. It can neither respond by saying yes or no. You all want a corps to be unable to say yes but truth is a corps cant say or respond at all. Its a self defeating argument.

Spiritually the natural man is dead, a corpse, but physically hes not, so the physical, natural man responds negatively towards the Gospel. That negative response evidences he is spiritually dead, a corpse.

 

[Brightfame52]

Typical biblical salvation. By grace through faith.

Sorry, its by works, conditions.

 

[Brightfame52]

Sorry no it is not, duh. You are trying to conflate actual and spiritual dead.

The analogy is the point, you cant even see hat simple fact.

 

[Brightfame52]

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT BY GOD.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Sure all the Father draws/regenerates, shall be taught of God.. Spiritual teaching is for the regenerate 1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Revmitchell]

Spiritually the natural man is dead, a corpse, but physically hes not, so the physical, natural man responds negatively towards the Gospel. That negative response evidences he is spiritually dead, a corpse.

Again the corps can niether respond negatively nor positively to anything. Saying he is a live physically doesnt negate that fact. You cant have it both ways. Its a self defeating argument.

 

[Silverhair]

Sorry, its by works, conditions.

Not what the bible says, but then again you never seem to care what the bible says.

 

[Brightfame52]

Again the corps can niether respond negatively nor positively to anything. Saying he is a live physically doesnt negate that fact. You cant have it both ways. Its a self defeating argument.

All I said went right over your head.