Only Those Whom the Father Draws to Christ

[Silverhair]

You just now figured that out? To say we have different views of Soteriology is an understatement.

Well I did not want to say your whole system of theology is failed.

 

[KenH]

When i quote 1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all

"and this ransom was given for "all"; not for every individual of mankind, for then all would be delivered, freed, and saved, whereas they are not; or else the ransom price is paid in vain, or God is unjust to receive a sufficient ransom price from Christ, and yet not free the captive, but punish the person for whom he has received satisfaction; neither of which can be said.

- from John Gill's Bible commentary on 1 Timothy 2:6

 

[KenH]

Whereas a physically dead body will stay dead a spiritually dead body does not have to.

Neither does a physical body have to stay dead. Ever heard of Lazarus and others who were raised from the dead? Also, have you forgotten that Christ physically came back from the dead?

 

[KenH]

Well I did not want to say your whole system of theology is failed.

Believe me, Silverhair, I regard our soteriological differences to be serious, very, very, very, very serious.

 

[Silverhair]

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. (emphasis mine)

Look at the context, it helps you understand the text of the bible instead of misusing it as you are doing.
Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees and other Jews as you would know if you looked at the context. They were opposing Him and questioning His claims about Himself.

"Even because ye cannot hear my word - The word “hear” in this place is to be understood in the sense of bear or tolerate, as in Joh_6:60. His doctrine was offensive to them. They hated it, and hence they perverted his meaning, and were resolved not to understand him." Barnes

Even if you had just read few more verses you would have understood that you missed the intent of Christs' words. It is not that the could not it was that they would not.

 

[KenH]

Under your theology man has an excuse

They had every opportunity to exercise their supposed "free will", but as we know the Bible teaches, their free will is incapable of saving them or anyone else who is depending upon their "free will" for salvation. Sir, they have no excuse. As the apostle Paul wrote about folks like you:

Romans 9:20-21 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

[KenH]

It is not that the could not it was that they would not.

Are you claiming that the Holy Spirit was wrong to have John write "ye cannot" instead of "ye would not"? Or are you claiming that John misunderstood what the Holy Spirit was directing him to write?

 

[Salty]

Six hour waring
This thread will be closed no sooner than 6 am EDT / 3 am PDT

 

[Silverhair]

"and this ransom was given for "all"; not for every individual of mankind, for then all would be delivered, freed, and saved, whereas they are not; or else the ransom price is paid in vain, or God is unjust to receive a sufficient ransom price from Christ, and yet not free the captive, but punish the person for whom he has received satisfaction; neither of which can be said.

- from John Gill's Bible commentary on 1 Timothy 2:6

To bad Gill does not trust what the bible says. If you keep following this type of teaching it is not wonder your theology is so bad.

 

[Silverhair]

Neither does a physical body have to stay dead. Ever heard of Lazarus and others who were raised from the dead? Also, have you forgotten that Christ physically came back from the dead?

Are you sure you got your fact straight. I mean that's in the bible but you do seem to have a problem with the bible text.

 

[Silverhair]

Believe me, Silverhair, I regard our soteriological differences to be serious, very, very, very, very serious.

Well then you should start trusting the bible rather than all those Calvinists you seem to revere so much.

 

[Silverhair]

They had every opportunity to exercise their supposed "free will", but as we know the Bible teaches, their free will is incapable of saving them or anyone else who is depending upon their "free will" for salvation. Sir, they have no excuse. As the apostle Paul wrote about folks like you:

Romans 9:20-21 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

You keep forgetting that under your deterministic theology man can't do anything so you can't now blame man for not exercising a free will that you say he does not have.

You can keep denying man's free will but the fact you do deny it actually proves it. You could not even deny it if you did not have the ability to think and make choices. So your arguments are all self-defeating.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning -
the thread will be closed no sooner than 830 am EDT / 530 am PDT

 

[Brightfame52]

Actually you just said a self defeating argument and the refused to listen to reason. But you keep making that embarrassing argument.

Like I stated, it went over your head, oh well

 

[Brightfame52]

You continue to speak out of both sides of your mouth.
What did you say? "Just why do you think that God used the term "dead" if he didn't mean dead as human beings understand the word from their time on this earth?"

So if the person is dead as human beings understand the word from their time on this earth then you can not say they sin can you. And you are saying it is an analogy of dead spiritually, in other words, can not trust in God, your argument fails.
Why you ask? Because, and this is point you keep trying to avoid, if they were spiritually dead there is nothing in the bible that says they can not turn to Christ but there are a number of verse that say they can and it is even expected.

You continue to show you cant understand a simple analogy. Man is spiritually dead like a person is physically dead !

 

[Brightfame52]

You need to read your bible. You are regenerated/ saved/ born again after you hear and believe the gospel. You are teaching a false gospel.

You need to be regenerated, made alive before you can believe on Christ, thats why Jesus said, no man has the ability to come [believe] on Him, except the Father draws him, which is regenerate him.

 

[Brightfame52]

When i quote 1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, You Calvinists say no He was only a ransom for the elect. And you say I don't believe the bible, really!
Your whole theology seems to be built on miss using the scriptures. And teaching contrary to the clear text.

Like I said, you can quote a scripture all you want, but it doesnt mean you believe it aright, or understand it.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning -
the thread will be closed no sooner than 830 am EDT / 530 am PDT

This thread is closed