To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?

[37818]

Who chooses to open the gift?

You assume that the gift needs to be opened. How do you come to that assumption?

 

[AustinC]

You assume that the gift needs to be opened. How do you come to that assumption?

It's a gift.
Are you implying that the gift is just thrown down, already opened, and folks just gather around it and choose to grab it or not?

37, is that what God teaches in scripture? Is that how you treat your own children when you give a gift? Do you just toss it on the floor and tell them it's their choice to grab it or not?

How much greater is our Father in giving us good gifts?

 

[Silverhair]

37818



Yet scripture doesnt teach that. Salvation is for a elect people, Israel Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Who is salvation for?

Mat_18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
Joh_12:47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
1Co_1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1Ti_1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
Heb_7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

So are only the elect, lost ungodly sinners? Your philosophy is, to say the least, flawed.

You keep denying that salvation is for all even when the bible proves it.

1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

 

[Silverhair]

If it is a gift, available (received and retrieved) by all, and God doesn't choose whom He will give it to, then who needs to do the work to recognize that a gift is lying around, and the gift needs to be opened up, and the gift needs to be used?

Who chooses to open the gift?

Do you not see that you present God as a passive, general, gift giver who says "I have a gift...if you choose to want it...but that is entirely up to you."
That view is entirely contrary to the God who adopted us before the creation of the world. The God who, while we were still dead in sins, made us alive with Christ.

How do you live with such a contradiction between your belief and God's stated explanation of what He did?

I know for myself, I couldn't live with that contradiction. I had to accept that God did all the work, including opening the gift and implanting this gift of faith into my heart so that I would be justified by the atoning work of Christ Jesus on my behalf.

God is not passively sitting as though he were a fruit stand attendant, waiting for people to receive what he is offering for free. The Bible never portrays God in that light, therefore neither do I.

37, I can see the obstacle in your understanding. I once had the same obstacle. God was kind to show me my error so I could rightly honor Him as Sovereign Savior who acted in grace on my behalf.

Austin you have one assumption piled on top of another. Why don't you just trust what the bible says instead of try to find ways to deny it?

 

[Silverhair]

It's a gift.
Are you implying that the gift is just thrown down, already opened, and folks just gather around it and choose to grab it or not?

37, is that what God teaches in scripture? Is that how you treat your own children when you give a gift? Do you just toss it on the floor and tell them it's their choice to grab it or not?

How much greater is our Father in giving us good gifts?

You seem to forget that a person can either receive or reject the gift. The Calvinist view is that God forces the "gift" on to people, which really means it is no longer a gift is it.

 

[AustinC]

Austin you have one assumption piled on top of another. Why don't you just trust what the bible says instead of try to find ways to deny it?

What assumptions?
The assumption that the whole of scripture interprets a sentence in a letter?
Silverhair, why don't you trust the entire Bible instead of creating a pot shot theology from a few sentences taken out of context?

 

[Dave G]

To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?

Lost souls, saved souls...no one assists the Lord in saving themselves, nor anyone else.

 

[37818]

It's a gift.
Are you implying that the gift is just thrown down, already opened, and folks just gather around it and choose to grab it or not?

37, is that what God teaches in scripture? Is that how you treat your own children when you give a gift? Do you just toss it on the floor and tell them it's their choice to grab it or not?

How much greater is our Father in giving us good gifts?

The gift is the eternal life through Christ. Romans 6:23. 1 John 5:9-13.

 

[AustinC]

The gift is the eternal life through Christ. Romans 6:23. 1 John 5:9-13.

I understand, but you are avoiding how the gift is administered.

Does God choose whom He gifts with eternal life through Christ or do humans choose to pick up a general gift lying around?

Remember your first assertion. You wrote:
"Iet's be clear here, the lost do not in any way assist God in their salvation. If anything the lost hinder their salvation."

Being clear on your assertion, I still ask you how free will doesn't break your assertion by placing the responsibility on humans rather than on God?

If humans have to pick up the gift as a requirement then it becomes a human work.

 

[Silverhair]

What assumptions?
The assumption that the whole of scripture interprets a sentence in a letter?
Silverhair, why don't you trust the entire Bible instead of creating a pot shot theology from a few sentences taken out of context?

You keep making the same unfounded accusations but you still fail to show where what I post does not fit with the context.

You are blinded by your errant theology so I would suggest that you actually trust what the bible says rather than what you want it to say.

 

[AustinC]

You keep making the same unfounded accusations but you still fail to show where what I post does not fit with the context.

You are blinded by your errant theology so I would suggest that you actually trust what the bible says rather than what you want it to say.

I have showed you on multiple occasions, Silverhair. You simply ignore them, put your head down, and plow forward with no capacity to consider your error.

 

[Silverhair]

I understand, but you are avoiding how the gift is administered.

Does God choose whom He gifts with eternal life through Christ or do humans choose to pick up a general gift lying around?

Remember your first assertion. You wrote:
"Iet's be clear here, the lost do not in any way assist God in their salvation. If anything the lost hinder their salvation."

Being clear on your assertion, I still ask you how free will doesn't break your assertion by placing the responsibility on humans rather than on God?

If humans have to pick up the gift as a requirement then it becomes a human work.

As I said before if a gift can not be refused then it is no longer a gift is it. Man has the ability to accept or reject the gift of salvation. You just do not like that idea as it does not fit your theology.

 

[Silverhair]

I have showed you on multiple occasions, Silverhair. You simply ignore them, put your head down, and plow forward with no capacity to consider your error.

You have shown me your errant view which does not agree with the bible so why would you expect me or anyone else to accept your errant theology.
The bible is the authority not your Calvinism. That is the point you continue to avoid.

 

[Brightfame52]

Who is salvation for?

Mat_18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
Joh_12:47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
1Co_1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1Ti_1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
Heb_7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

So are only the elect, lost ungodly sinners? Your philosophy is, to say the least, flawed.

You keep denying that salvation is for all even when the bible proves it.

1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

In Isa 45:17 who is promised to be saved in the Lord ?

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

 

[37818]

I understand, but you are avoiding how the gift is administered.

No. God gives it. 1 John 5;12.

 

[Silverhair]

In Isa 45:17 who is promised to be saved in the Lord ?

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

So you are just going to throw in the towel and admit that your theology is wrong as you have no answer to all the scripture I posted. When you actually start to trust scripture rather than your tortured version of it then you will finally see the truth in scripture.

 

[AustinC]

So you are just going to throw in the towel and admit that your theology is wrong as you have no answer to all the scripture I posted. When you actually start to trust scripture rather than your tortured version of it then you will finally see the truth in scripture.

LOL, how do you even get to this conclusion. Your accusations are baseless.

 

[AustinC]

No. God gives it. 1 John 5;12.

So God gives a particular person the gift of salvation. This is what I believe. God chooses to give you the gift of salvation. But, he may not give your neighbor that gift. It's a particular redemption.

37, perhaps some day the veil will lift so you see the contradictions you are trying to juggle.

 

[37818]

So God gives a particular person the gift of salvation. This is what I believe. God chooses to give you the gift of salvation. But, he may not give your neighbor that gift. It's a particular redemption.

37, perhaps some day the veil will lift so you see the contradictions you are trying to juggle.

I have no problem with the gift of salvation. It is not clear to me the reason or reasons you would think I would.

Romans 1:16, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."

1 Corinthians 15:1-4, ". . . the gospel . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . "

1 John 5:1, ". . . Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . ."

 

[Brightfame52]

So you are just going to throw in the towel and admit that your theology is wrong as you have no answer to all the scripture I posted. When you actually start to trust scripture rather than your tortured version of it then you will finally see the truth in scripture.

You ignoring what the scripture is saying. According to Isaiah 45:17 who is promised Salvation in the Lord ?