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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by rockytopva, Sep 23, 2022.

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  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The Magisterial Reformation "denotes the Lutheran, Calvinist [Reformed], and Anglican churches" and how these denominations "related to secular authorities, such as princes, magistrates, or city councils", i.e. "the magistracy". "The magistrate had a right to authority within the church, just as the church could rely on the authority of the magistrate to enforce discipline, suppress heresy, or maintain order."

    In addition, the term magister relates to the emphasis on authoritative teachers. Often this is seen in the names of the theological schools descending from magisterial reformers (e.g. Lutheran, Reformed, and Anglican), who are collectively known as Magisterial Protestants.

    Anabaptists were heavily persecuted during the 16th century and into the 17th century by both Magisterial Protestants and Roman Catholics, including being drowned and burned at the stake.

    I, as an Anabaptist of Baptist and Methodist variety, would have suffered the same fate of the Anabaptist before me.
     
    #21 rockytopva, Oct 17, 2022
  2. VDMA

    VDMA Member

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    All you can do post a bunch of red herrings logical fallacies that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. You can do better than that … right?

    The Anabaptist were not Christian they were an anti-Trinitarian sec. Non sacramental churches like the “Baptist” never existed in church history until after the reformation.

    If you want to engage the actual topic of the post go right ahead.
     
    #22 VDMA, Oct 17, 2022
  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I believe the Catholics and Protestants of the Magisterial time were Sardisean church age Christians. Sardis is a gem, therefore they were normally elegant in dress and rigid in doctrine.

    Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. - Revelation 3:4

    Did John Calvin and his fellow magisterial protestants defile their garments as in toasting Michael Servetus?

    “Neither God nor his Spirit have counselled such an action. Christ did not treat those who negated him that way.”- Italian poet Camillo Renato on the Servetus execution

    “To kill a man is not to protect a doctrine, but it is to kill a man.” - French humanist Sébastien Chateillon on the Servetus execution

    ”I consider it a serious matter to kill men because they are in error on some question of scriptural interpretation, when we know that even the elect ones may be led astray into error.”- Michael Servetus

    In 1908 a monument to Servetus was erected in the French city of Annemasse, some three miles [5 km] from the spot where he died. An inscription reads: “Michel Servetus, . . . geographer, physician, physiologist, contributed to the welfare of humanity by his scientific discoveries, his devotion to the sick and the poor, and the indomitable independence of his intelligence and his conscience. . . . His convictions were invincible. He made a sacrifice of his life for the cause of the truth. ”

    And to try to bail himself out of hot water Calvin says... "Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory."

    It seemed like Calvin himself would pay for such criminal deeds as his health receded in his fifties. Fatally ill, and with blood flowing from his mouth, the 54 year-old pastor-theologian was carried to Saint Pierre in a chair. He was a man acquainted with pain. He suffered from terrible hemorrhoids, asthma, kidney stones, pulmonary tuberculosis, and gout. Fever was a consistent companion, and now he had ruptured blood vessels in his lungs due to his violent coughing spells. This same month he wrote of his tribulations to the doctors of Montpellier:

    "But at that time [20 years ago] I was not attacked by gout, knew nothing of the stone or the gravel, was not tormented with the gripings of colic nor afflicted with piles nor threatened with haemorrhages. At present all these enemies charge me like troops. As soon as I recovered from a quartan fever, I was taken with severe and acute pains in my calves, which, after being partly relieved, returned a second and then third time. At last they turned into a disease of the joints, which spread from my feet to my knees. An ulcer in the haemorrhoid veins long tortured me ..." - John Calvin

    I think Calvin and Luther messed up big time in having people like Michael Servetus executed. Possibly even to the extent to their immortal soul.
     
    #23 rockytopva, Oct 17, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2022
  4. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Our Lord had something to say about this "Day of the LORD."

    Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

    And Paul wrote about it:

    2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

    Jude had this to say about men in the time just before this day:

    Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
    18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
    19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

    Isaiah said:

    Isa 28:22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

    Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
    6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
     
    #24 JD731, Oct 18, 2022
  5. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    What really comes secretly, according to the scriptures which no one on these forums investigates and believes? Is it the rapture of the church that has at least two precursors to it happening? The answer is no because the scriptures say this;

    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we (who are alive at his coming) shall be changed. (Note: it does not say "at the ONLY trump, it says at the LAST trump, meaning that there are at least two trumpet sounds).
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    Where is logic and reason among the frozen chosen? It cannot be found. It is not going to be secret if a bunch of trumpets announce it.

    I went back to see who this letter was written to and found out it was not V Putin or Joe Biden. It was written to the church of Jesus Christ. This is a select group of believers who have put their trust in the testimony of God the Father about him and are those who the Spirit have immersed into his body, the church. This is all it is.

    1 Cor 1: Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
    2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

    Someone please join me is saying, "of course, this makes perfect sense, it is written to the church only because that is who it is said it is written to." What a novel idea to believe what is said.

    So, what does come as a thief in the night? It is the awful judgments of very dark and dreadful "day of the LORD" that will take away all those who deny the scriptures in the name of some other man than the man named Jesus Christ.
     
    #25 JD731, Oct 18, 2022
  6. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    When does the Day of the LORD sneak in like a thief?

    Do we know? Are we told?

    Do you see how secretive it is and how one must really study to find this answer? It is because it comes as a thief, unannounced. But we can figure some things out by the number 30. This is a number for maturity in the scriptures. The priesthood of Israel could not be entered into until the priest was 30 years old, etc, etc. The phrase day of the LORD has appeared in twenty nine verses so far, but it has been mentioned 30 times over hundreds of years by 12 different authors. The completion of one age is symbolized by the thirty times it is mentioned but the 29 verses suggests that the completion is still at a later time, and that is what we see in the information we receive concerning the arrival.

    By way of explanation, John is imprisoned at Patmos where he receives a vision and is told to write in three different divisions. When he does begin to write about these three things, he wants us to know this is a "PROPHESY." He is writing this in 94 AD and all the other apostles and prophets are long since dead and he is the only one left.

    RE 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
    2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
    3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

    But, before John ever wrote a single word he wanted us to know where he was and when he was there and why he was there. He was fully cognizant of it all. Here is what he said and it is the answer to the question of when will the day of the LORD come. It is the only scripture in the canon that tells us.

    Re 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
    10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

    Okay guys, there is your day of the LORD, stated simply as the Lord's day. But, the wrath and the indignation part of this day is still to come. John is instructed to write three things. 1) What he saw, a vision of Jesus Christ
    2) Things that are - the churches
    3) Things that shall be hereafter (here after the churches)

    Re 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

    Past tense language.
    1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand......
    Present tense language -
    Re 1:20 The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
    Future tense language
    Re 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

    Re 4;1 has a record of the last trumpet related to the churches.
    Re 1:10 has the first trumpet.

    In 1 Thess 4, this order, first the shout of Jesus and then the archangel. then the trumpet sound

    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lor
    .

    Here is what is after he church and it follows the same plan as first and second Thessalonians.


    Revelation 16:15
    Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

    Revelation 6:16
    And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    No doubt about it. There will be a translation of the church of Jesus Christ that is being formed in this age from earth to heaven before God pours out his wrath on the rebels who are left and purges them out of his kingdom with great wrath.

    Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day (the day of the LORD,) in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
     
    #26 JD731, Oct 18, 2022
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