Featured Acts 10 - Cornelius - Question

OK. That’s funny that you think that after all I’ve said. Anyway, go back and carefully read post #94, #83 and #67. Then you will get your answer. These posts are very short. In post #67 37818 was answering Marooncat79.

 

Hey Rt,

That’s not what I meant. I used the wrong word when I said “undo”. I meant that I didn’t answer your post. I did answer it to a certain degree. I apologize.

 

Hi AustinC,
When I asked that question and Marooncat79 answered in posts #13 and 14, I said later (I can’t find the post) that I was trying to stay with the original question. I believe in using the whole Bible including the context of verses.

 

Hi Unprofitable,

My Comment: I do understand what you are saying. All the verses you are quoting have to do with the Jews. Yes, the Jews who believed in Christ or lived the OT Faith were saved by Christ’s death and resurrection to come. This was the first time for the gentiles. I don’t think they knew this in general. I do think Cornelius knew about the prophecies, like you said, and took them to heart and practiced the faith with what he knew. He was actually living the Faith he had. I still think he needed to have Christ preached to him because he really didn’t know the gospel. The Jews had the gospel preached to them but the gentiles didn’t until Cornelius. I think God was pleased with Cornelius acting on the little that he knew and, by His Providence, brought him to Peter so that he could be saved. I believe the point of salvation or justification is baptism. The speaking in Tongues was a sign to Peter that it needed to be done. Having said that, I think you will be interested when I put my main post on soon. As far as John 3:8 is concerned, yes, the Spirit bloweth , and that is the Holy Spirit, however, that’s prior to justification. Calvinists and Arminians believe you receive grace before justification but differ on how it’s applied. I say that grace is Actual Grace. Thanks for your thoughts on this. May God bless.

 

My Comment:

We confess one baptism for the remission of sins and for life eternal. For baptism declares the Lord’s death. We are indeed “buried with the Lord through baptism9,” as saith the divine Apostle. (John Damascene, Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, Book 4, Ch 9, 700’s ad)

(St. Augustine is arguing against heretics) Now those very persons, who think it unjust that infants which depart this life without the grace of Christ should be deprived not only of the kingdom of God, into which they themselves admit that none but such as are regenerated through baptism can enter, but also of eternal life and salvation,—when they ask how it can be just that one man should be freed from original sin and another not, although the condition of both of them is the same, might answer their own question, in accordance with their own opinion of how it can be so frequently just and right that one should have baptism administered to him whereby to enter into the kingdom of God, and another not be so favoured, although the case of both is alike.….(Augustine, On the Merits and Forgiveness of Sins, Book 1, Ch 30, 412ad)

(talking about Pelagius) Let him clear himself on this point, since he refuses to acknowledge that there is anything in infants which the laver of regeneration has to cleanse. (Augustine, On the Grace of Christ, and on Original Sin, Book 2, Ch 21,
418ad)

the very sacraments, I say, of the holy Church show plainly enough that infants, even when fresh from the womb, are delivered from the bondage of the devil through the grace of Christ. For, to say nothing of the fact that they are baptized for the remission of sins by no fallacious, but by a true and faithful mystery, there is previously wrought on them the exorcism and the exsufflation of the hostile power, which they profess to renounce by the mouth of those who bring them to baptism. (Augustine, On the Grace of Christ, and on Original Sin Book 2, Ch 45, 418ad)

For what Christian is there who would allow it to be said, that any one could attain to eternal salvation without being born again in Christ,—[a result] which He meant to be effected through baptism, at the very time when such a sacrament was purposely instituted for regenerating in the hope of eternal salvation? Whence the apostle says: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us by the laver1 of regeneration.” (Augustine, On the Merits and Forgiveness of Sins, Book 1, Ch 23, 412ad)

Cœlestius….he could contend that there was no sin in infants resulting from the past transgression of the first man, which would be purged in holy baptism by the purification of the new regeneration? (Augustine, Against Two Letters of the Pelagians Book 2, Ch 6, 420ad)


But the sacrament of baptism is undoubtedly the sacrament of regeneration:…..“Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God”1 Even an infant, therefore, must be imbued with the sacrament of regeneration, lest without it his would be an unhappy exit out of this life; and this baptism is not administered except for the remission of sins. (Augustine, On the Merits and Forgiveness of Sins, Book 2, Ch 43, 412ad)


The same regeneration which now renews our spirit, so that all our past sins are remitted, will by and by also operate, as might be expected, to the renewal to eternal life of that very flesh, by the resurrection of which to an incorruptible state the incentives of all sins will be purged out of our nature. But this salvation is as yet only accomplished in hope: it is not realized in fact; it is not in present possession, but it is looked forward to with patience. [xl.] And thus there is a whole and perfect cleansing, in the self-same baptismal laver, not only of all the sins remitted now in our baptism…..will yet have no existence in the life beyond.(Augustine, On the Grace of Christ, and on Original Sin, Book 2, Ch 44, 418ad)

My first two books, on the basis of the testimony of the saints who have defended the Catholic faith since the time of the Apostles, refute the impudence of Julian, who thought that we should be charged with Manichaean teachings,3 in that we teach that original sin which is washed away “by the bath of regeneration,”(Titus 3:5) not only in the case of adults, but also in that of little children, is inherited from Adam. (six books against julian, Retractations, ch 88, St. Augustine, 427ad)

 

My Comment:

Rom 5:1 BEING justified therefore by faith, let us have peace with God, through our Lord Jesus Christ

Yes, it is a past tense but see the following:
Present Tense - Rom 3:24
Future Tense - Gal 2:17, Gal 5:4-5, Rom 6:16

Now once you see that, concentrate on the word “justification” instead of “Faith”. By “exercising” (the virtue of Faith) that Faith you continue in Justification. This means justification is ongoing. It is not a one-time event. You can lose it. Also, by seeing Faith used in these different tenses you should begin to see that “Faith Alone” doesn’t produce salvation. It is there every step of the way but you need the sacrament of Baptism before justification or Penance after justification if you fall from the initial grace of justification. Once justified (in sanctifying Grace), your Faith, both the Gift of Faith and the Virtue of Faith, is exercised to grow in grace (2 Pet 3:18, 2 Cor 9:10, Eph 4:7, Apoc 22:11) and stay in grace (perseverance)(Matt 24:13, Phil 1:6).

 

My Comment: The following comments I’m not saying that you are saying any of it but when I read your comments and others, I start seeing things and think this may be an Impediment:

Maybe the problem is that you think we think the “actual water saves” or something like that. We don’t. There is nothing magical about the water. We believe that because Christ said to do it that way, we do it that way and that way is necessary. The church believed in Baptismal Regeneration since the Apostles (see post #106). When the Rite of Baptism (the Sacrament of Baptism) is done, the priest pours the water over the person’s head, reciting the words exactly as Christ commanded in Matt 28:19, “…baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.” When these two things are done, there is a spiritual regeneration on the inside. It has nothing to do with feelings or anything else. The Faith is NOT about feelings but DOING GOD’S WILL while “in His grace”. Protestantism put’s too much emphasis on feelings. I’m not saying you are saying that at all but I think many think that and then think Baptism couldn’t be where your initial justification comes from because of that. There are no feelings there. It doesn’t depend on you but totally on God and what HE IS DOING!

 

I have two separate comments

My Comment: Before I answer this post I wanted to ask you again: Do you believe Catholics think they can “Earn” their salvation? I know you said you highlighted what you agreed with me on but I am still confused as to whether you think this. If you do, please cite an official source. I just want to clear this up.

My Comment: That’s what Baptism does! Tell me, specifically why do you think it can’t happen through Baptism? For example, do you think it is because it is the outward use of water and words and you think we think we are literally saved by the physical water? Maybe with Baptism you think we can’t have a feeling inside so you think there is no change in the person? (Read post #108) I would be interested in what you think on this.

My Comment: Interesting! These are the exact verses we use to prove Baptismal Regeneration. I said on this thread before that the power of Baptism comes from the cross when water flowed from the Christ’s side (John 19:34).

My Comment: Titus 3:7 says, “That, being justified by his grace, we may be heirs according to hope of life everlasting.” (DRV) The KJV says, “That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

Maybe you don’t think the following but, just in case you do, I’m going to answer you this way:

I think what you are wanting to do here is interpret this to mean you are saved “once and for all”. Not true. If you interpret “made” to mean “for good” then how can you have “Hope”? Hope means that it’s not absolute. Catholics believe we can have a “Confident assurance” (1 John 5:13-14), but not an absolute one (1 Cor 4:4). Why? Because God judges us at the end of our life (Heb 9:27). 1 John 5:15-18 shows why we cannot have an “absolute assurance” among many other verses.

My Comment: We agree with number 1. In number 2, “His mercy” is “His grace”. Oh, so you have some symbols! (Outward Confession) So is Baptism - it is outward. Matter of fact, during the Rite of Baptism we confess our Faith. The difference is that, with a sacrament, the symbol MUST be done (outward Baptism) and the regeneration happens instantaneously. The Baptism “Causes” regeneration only because Christ made it that way and not because there is anything magical about the water itself. Your “outward confession” is different because it is “after” your regeneration. Where in Scripture does it say you receive regeneration this way? I would be interested on knowing.

 

I disagree. Yes they did. What they didn’t believe in was Faith Alone.

 

Households included infants - Acts 16:15, 1 Cor 1:16, Acts 16:33
Infants were baptized through the faith of their parents and the church
Many were saved through the Faith of others - Matt 9:2, 1 Cor 7:14