"The Days of His Flesh"

[asterisktom]

In the light of Hebrews 2:14 and 5:7 I am convinced that Christ being in the flesh was mission-specific. The purpose for that, according to Scripture, is long gone. The body He has now, post-ascension, is spiritual, like it was pre-Incarnation. He has no need for a body of flesh and blood now.

“Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil”.

He became flesh and blood - and suffered in His flesh and shed His blood. I doubt we can fathom the depths of what He did to rescue us and to destroy the one who had the power of death. But is the Devil still being destroyed?

However some people assert that Christ is flesh and blood now because of 1 Tim. 2:5.

“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (ἄνθρωπος Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς),”

But this does not prove that Christ is flesh and blood, but that He is the God-Man. And this begs the question: What does it mean to be human? Is flesh and blood required for that? If so, then my Christian father ceased to be human ten years ago when he died. And all saints of previous generations, when they died, lost their humanity as well. But this obviously isn't true. Rather, they joined “the spirits of righteous men made perfect”, Heb. 12:23, referring to all those righteous persons of the previous chapter who had run their course by faith. Notice, the writer is referring to believers who at that time had no physical bodies yet were called "righteous men" ("pneumasi dikaiwn").

Our goal is to be like Christ, Christlikeness, not that the Second Person of the Godhead should forever from the time of His incarnation onward stay flesh and blood. Scripture has no proof - and the Gospel no need - of this.

 

[tyndale1946]

In the light of Hebrews 2:14 and 5:7 I am convinced that Christ being in the flesh was mission-specific. The purpose for that, according to Scripture, is long gone. The body He has now, post-ascension, is spiritual, like it was pre-Incarnation. He has no need for a body of flesh and blood now.

“Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil”.

He became flesh and blood - and suffered in His flesh and shed His blood. I doubt we can fathom the depths of what He did to rescue us and to destroy the one who had the power of death. But is the Devil still being destroyed?

However some people assert that Christ is flesh and blood now because of 1 Tim. 2:5.

“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (ἄνθρωπος Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς),”

But this does not prove that Christ is flesh and blood, but that He is the God-Man. And this begs the question: What does it mean to be human? Is flesh and blood required for that? If so, then my Christian father ceased to be human ten years ago when he died. And all saints of previous generations, when they died, lost their humanity as well. But this obviously isn't true. Rather, they joined “the spirits of righteous men made perfect”, Heb. 12:23, referring to all those righteous persons of the previous chapter who had run their course by faith. Notice, the writer is referring to believers who at that time had no physical bodies yet were called "righteous men" ("pneumasi dikaiwn").

Our goal is to be like Christ, Christlikeness, not that the Second Person of the Godhead should forever from the time of His incarnation onward stay flesh and blood. Scripture has no proof - and the Gospel no need - of this.

Tom we can debate this until the cows come home as one would say one thing and one would say another but scriptures gives a straight answer... No one knows... Brother Glen!

1 John 3: 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[AustinC]

In the light of Hebrews 2:14 and 5:7 I am convinced that Christ being in the flesh was mission-specific. The purpose for that, according to Scripture, is long gone. The body He has now, post-ascension, is spiritual, like it was pre-Incarnation. He has no need for a body of flesh and blood now.

“Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil”.

He became flesh and blood - and suffered in His flesh and shed His blood. I doubt we can fathom the depths of what He did to rescue us and to destroy the one who had the power of death. But is the Devil still being destroyed?

However some people assert that Christ is flesh and blood now because of 1 Tim. 2:5.

“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (ἄνθρωπος Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς),”

But this does not prove that Christ is flesh and blood, but that He is the God-Man. And this begs the question: What does it mean to be human? Is flesh and blood required for that? If so, then my Christian father ceased to be human ten years ago when he died. And all saints of previous generations, when they died, lost their humanity as well. But this obviously isn't true. Rather, they joined “the spirits of righteous men made perfect”, Heb. 12:23, referring to all those righteous persons of the previous chapter who had run their course by faith. Notice, the writer is referring to believers who at that time had no physical bodies yet were called "righteous men" ("pneumasi dikaiwn").

Our goal is to be like Christ, Christlikeness, not that the Second Person of the Godhead should forever from the time of His incarnation onward stay flesh and blood. Scripture has no proof - and the Gospel no need - of this.

How was Jesus resurrected from the dead if he had a different body? How did Thomas see the holes in his hand and side? How did Jesus eat with his disciples after his resurrection?

In your view, Jesus human body would still be in the tomb.

 

[37818]

The body He has now, post-ascension, is spiritual,

It is His immortal resurrection body. The kind we will get at our adoption. 1 John 3:2.

 

[tyndale1946]

How was Jesus resurrected from the dead if he had a different body? How did Thomas see the holes in his hand and side? How did Jesus eat with his disciples after his resurrection?

In your view, Jesus human body would still be in the tomb.

All we know is what is written in scripture and there is plenty of speculation and as I heard one preacher say our bodies will be changed not exchanged... And then there is the encounter and sighting by Mary Magdalene... Brother Glen

John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

[kyredneck]

How was Jesus resurrected from the dead if he had a different body? How did Thomas see the holes in his hand and side? How did Jesus eat with his disciples after his resurrection?

In your view, Jesus human body would still be in the tomb.

Re-read the OP instead of making these knee-jerk assertions and accusations:

The body He has now, post-ascension, is spiritual, like it was pre-Incarnation.

Spot on Tom:

5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Jn 17

 

[tyndale1946]

Re-read the OP instead of making these knee-jerk assertions and accusations:

Spot on Tom:

5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Jn 17

And I agree with Tom but our sinful finite mind cannot comprehend what that is until we are there... Brother Glen

 

[AustinC]

Re-read the OP instead of making these knee-jerk assertions and accusations:



Spot on Tom:

5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Jn 17

I read it again. It's gnosticism. I should have been more specific to correct the error.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

He shall appear as He left: in a body of 'flesh and bones,' that could be touched and that ate food. (Acts of the Apostles 1:11; cf. Luke 24:39-43, in which He specifically declared that He was not a spirit).

 

[asterisktom]

He shall appear as He left: in a body of 'flesh and bones,' that could be touched and that ate food. (Acts of the Apostles 1:11; cf. Luke 24:39-43, in which He specifically declared that He was not a spirit).

Quick response, since we've done this before:
1.The phrase in Acts 1:11 describing the manner of His return - returning visibly. Or that He would return with a cloud. At any rate not what His essence would be at that time. If that were the case an adjective would have been used.
2.His post-resurrection body was different than His post-ascension body - as I wrote in the OP.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Quick response, since we've done this before:

We have indeed done it before, but you have denied the physical return of Christ before,

1.The phrase in Acts 1:11 describing the manner of His return - returning visibly. Or that He would return with a cloud. At any rate not what His essence would be at that time. If that were the case an adjective would have been used.

Acts 1:11, NKJV. 'This same Jesus who was taken into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.'
Acts 1:11, ESV. 'This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.'
He left in a body that could be touched, eat and drink; He will return in the same body.
He left visibly; He will return visibly.
People saw Him rise towards heaven; people will see Him return from heaven.
Clouds closed over Him to obscure Him; clouds will part to reveal Him.
[QUOTE}2.His post-resurrection body was different than His post-ascension body - as I wrote in the OP.[/QUOTE]
You provide no evidence for this whatsoever. There is no reason to suppose that He will return in a different body to that in which He left; indeed, Acts 1:11 refutes any such notion. He is 'the first fruits from the dead.' When we rise, we shall have a body similar to that in which He rose. We are resurrected; we do not return as ghosts or spirits. Our resurrection bodies will be different from those in which we lived before, just as a seed is different from the crop it produces after death (1 Corinthians 15:42-44), but a physical body nonetheless. Our Lord's resurrected body was different from His former one which is doubtless why various people did not instantly recognize Him, but He said, "Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have" (Luke 24:39).

I try to get along with any eschatological view that allows for the physical return of Christ, but Hyper-preterism lies outside of Christian orthodoxy for that very reason.

 

[asterisktom]

We have indeed done it before, but you have denied the physical return of Christ before,

Acts 1:11, NKJV. 'This same Jesus who was taken into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.'
Acts 1:11, ESV. 'This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.'
He left in a body that could be touched, eat and drink; He will return in the same body.
He left visibly; He will return visibly.
People saw Him rise towards heaven; people will see Him return from heaven.
Clouds closed over Him to obscure Him; clouds will part to reveal Him.
[QUOTE}2.His post-resurrection body was different than His post-ascension body - as I wrote in the OP.

You provide no evidence for this whatsoever. [/QUOTE]

If you value the testimony of Scripture over the weight of tradition you might study more carefully the sacrificial system in the Old Testament. These point, as you know to the sacrifice of Christ. In Leviticus and elsewhere we read that of the burnt offering, that it was consumed totally. This is a picture of the offering of the Son to the Father for our sin. We tend, in the Gospel story to focus on what happened visibly at Calvary, forgetting that a very important part of it was what happened after the clouds hid Him from our sight, Acts 1:11. No longer needing to fulfill all aspects of the needed sacrifice, the Son had no need for a physical body, a body which was given to Him for a specific Messianic purpose.

"Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil," - Heb. 2:14

 

[asterisktom]

Acts 1:11, NKJV. 'This same Jesus who was taken into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.'
Acts 1:11, ESV. 'This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.'
He left in a body that could be touched, eat and drink; He will return in the same body.

I quote only the section I disagree with, not the other three parts. Here you seem to conveniently be forgetting what an adverb is. It describes the manner some thing is done, not the make-up.

The mayor suddenly came to the town.
The cold front suddenly came to the town.

This does not mean that the cold front was wearing pants.

 

[percho]

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:20
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

I wonder why? Where was the devil when? God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things -- himself -- first, Col 1:18
Rom 8:29 because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


All I can say is, Hide and watch!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You provide no evidence for this whatsoever.

If you value the testimony of Scripture over the weight of tradition you might study more carefully the sacrificial system in the Old Testament. These point, as you know to the sacrifice of Christ. In Leviticus and elsewhere we read that of the burnt offering, that it was consumed totally. This is a picture of the offering of the Son to the Father for our sin. We tend, in the Gospel story to focus on what happened visibly at Calvary, forgetting that a very important part of it was what happened after the clouds hid Him from our sight, Acts 1:11. No longer needing to fulfill all aspects of the needed sacrifice, the Son had no need for a physical body, a body which was given to Him for a specific Messianic purpose.

"Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil," - Heb. 2:14[/QUOTE]
You are just spoofing here, and in the next post.
If the Lord Jesus were to have been consumed utterly, His body would have been burned instead of crucified and He would have risen as a spirit. None of this happened. The Lord Jesus is not only te burnt offering, but also the grain ('meat') offering, the peace offering, the sin offering, the trespass offering, not to mention the two turtledoves and the red heifer. Each one offers a different aspect of our Lord's atoning death. The burnt offering looks at our sin being utterly and completely taken away (e.g. Jeremiah 31:34c).

I quote only the section I disagree with, not the other three parts. Here you seem to conveniently be forgetting what an adverb is. It describes the manner some thing is done, not the make-up.

The mayor suddenly came to the town.
The cold front suddenly came to the town.

This does not mean that the cold front was wearing pants.

More spoofing. It is houtos Iesus, ' This Jesus, this very same Jesus' who will return in the same way as He left. He left as a physical Jesus (Luke 24:39 again); He will return as that same physical Jesus in like manner.
Moreover, in Daniel 7:13-14, our Lord is pictured in His triumphal return to the Father. He is 'One like the Son of Man.' He is like a man; He has a body; the same one in which He left the earth.

 

[asterisktom]

You may want to correct your quoting. You are quoting me, making it look like they are your words. These glitches can easily happen.