1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Conservative vs Liberal

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by JonC, Dec 15, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I know they believe that are acting within the Constitution. This does not change the fact that they are trying to revise the Constitution.

    Progressive liberals believe they are acting within the Constitution (they believe the founders designed the Constitution with the idea it would adapt). That does not change the fact that they are acting to revise it

    You are, per your definition, a progressive activist. Just because you may believe you are not does not change that fact.
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Firstly, you are not the authority of what is and what is not constitutional.

    Second, the progressive activist knows they are trying to change the constitution without having to go through constitutional means to get it done. Simply wanting to make a change in and of itself is not progressive activism. Not sure why that needs explaining except that you want to twist everything to fit your presupposition. Seriously its getting bad.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Understood. But unfortunately, personal convictions are really not the point here.

    The point is that being a nominal political conservative will not put one in the political conservative camp in the view of some or even a great many political conservatives. In other words, why should they trust you as one of them when you are not?

    And asserting church fathers were correct that Christians should neither vote nor hold office compounds the nominality, as it is not merely expressing a personal conviction but a doctrine that would be applicable to the entire church. It will only lessen the trust.
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Good grief! YOU are the one who said they were wrong to think they were acting within the US Constitution!!!!
    Talk about "double speak".

    You post
    Then you walk that back to say it only applies if they KNOW what they want is unconstitutional.

    Then you say they believe it constitutional but they are wrong.
    Then you walk that back to say and criticize me for saying they are wrong.

    You are like a reed blowing in the wind. You act like a minister only to abandon all semblance of Christian interaction. You act like a Constitutionalist only to walk back actions that are unconstitutional. You declare somebody wrong only to attack me for agreeing with you that they are wrong.

    You are shifter than Schiff.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As far as political camps go, I agree. And I am content not belonging to a political camp. Republicans can believe that is supporting Democrats and Democrats can believe that is supporting Republicans.

    When I was younger that may have bothered me, but I am old enough to obey my conscience without worrying about what men think.

    I was dealing with liberal and conservative as beliefs and values as they do impact the political landscape even through those of us who do not vote.

    But I get your point about political camps.

    I believe it is good to examine the reasons Christians did not vote or hold office prior to Rome adopting Christianity as their official religion.

    I also believe it is good to examine the reasons Christians do vote and how God has used godly men in secular government.

    But in the end we should prayerfully follow our convictions.
     
  6. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The foundation of the birth of our nation is not the foundation of our nation. Got it.

    The fact that the Bible was cited more often than any other work during the Constitutional Convention, and that references to Deuteronomy and the Apostle Paul make up the majority of those references would be clue to most people, but you were told more than once here:


    Your effort in that thread, btw, to delegitimize the central tenet of the DOI as mere rhetoric is the most obvious indication of your portside listing. The great divide between left and right, or liberal and conservative, is who is the identification of the author of one's rights, and the conditions under which one may be deprived thereof.
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I disagree.

    God does not give man the right to life. Men live by the grace of God, not a human right.

    God does not give man the right to liberty. Men are freed only by the grace of God.

    God does not give men the right to pursue their happiness. Men exist to glorify God.

    You make everything about man, nothing about God.
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Let me get this straight: Your assertions (quoted above for all to see) that the plaintiffs would need alt-right judges to bend the Constitution just as their progressive counterparts do to prevail is NOT likening them to those with a liberal agenda? :Thumbsdown

    He was saying that anyone engaging in judicial activism is progressive. He wasn't saying the plaintiffs were seeking judicial activism. You're saying that, and it's false.

    You're again asserting another falsehood. That's not what they seek. They are seeking justice for the fraud that was allowed to be perpetrated.

    You just don't like one possible implication.
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My assertion is that the plaintiffs are seeking to support a politician who has called for the termination of parts of the US Constitution. They are alt-right, anti-patriots.

    Do you support Trumps call to terminate portions of the US Constitution in order to install him as POTUS?
     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Have you stopped beating your wife?
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Government is all about men.
     
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Have you stopped molesting little boys?
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree.
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @Aaron

    I'll reword it.

    Do you support Trumps claim that election fraud allows for the termination of portions of the US Constitution in order to install him as POTUS or hold another election?
     
  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not sure. Link me to the statements.
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What reasons do you believe justifies terminating the US Constitution?
     
  17. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Poor choice of words, but his appeal to the original intent makes it obvious he's not for "terminating" the US Constitution.

    His point, obvious to any critical thinker, is that fraud invalidates any act poisoned by it, even those ostensibly in observance of the Constitution. I've argued that from the beginning. Fraud is an attack on the Constitution itself.

    As I thought, this is like the assertion that Trump said neo nazis were fine fine people, and that he recommended drinking disinfectant.
     
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Exactly right, not sure why this needs explaining other than they just want a reason to criticize.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,727
    Likes Received:
    873
    Faith:
    Baptist
    B I N G O ! ! !
     
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But, back to the topic.
    You're reframing and misrepresenting your opponents' arguments and adopting lib-speak to slander them.

    Here's the docket. https://www.supremecourt.gov/Docket...2243533_20221027-152110-95757954-00007015.pdf
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...