1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Is Jesus Omniscient?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Dec 26, 2022.

?
  1. Jesus exercised some dimensions of omniscience while on earth but subjected it to God

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Jesus displayed omniscience in moral attributes but not amoral attributes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. In his incarnation, Jesus laid aside the use of his attribute of omniscience.

    4 vote(s)
    80.0%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Depends on what you mean.

    Do I believe that the Word became flesh, that the Son made Himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant?

    Yes.

    Do I believe "of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

    Yes. Thats what the Bible says.

    But do I believe this made Christ less God?

    No.


    You, not I, created that problem. I do not believe that Jesus not knowing the hour which only the Father knows makes Him less God. That was your mistake.

    How do you address Chriat's claim that there was something the Father knew that He did not?
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,827
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He was both less when He became part of His creation and never was not fully Almighty God. See Isaiah 43:10-11.
     
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ Jesus was never less than almighty God on this earth. He was BOTH fully God and fully Man on this earth at the same time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you believe Jesus' words in Mark 13:32–33 that "of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."?
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,827
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are contradicting your your view of Him being fully Man.

    Hosea 11:9, ". . . for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: . . ."
     
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Please allow me to deal with this verse, as well as Matthew 24:36.

    "neither the Son; Christ, as the son of man; though he did know it as the Son of God, who knows all things, and so this; but as the son of man, and from his human nature he had no knowledge of any thing future: what knowledge he had of future things in his humanity, he had from his deity; nor, as man, had he any commission to make known, nor did he make known the day of God's vengeance on the Jews."

    - from John Gill's Bible commentary on Mark 13:32

    "The Ethiopic version adds here, "nor the son", and so the Cambridge copy of Beza's; which seems to be transcribed from Mark 13:32 where that phrase stands; and must be understood of Christ as the son of man, and not as the Son of God; for as such, he lay in the bosom of the Father, and knew all his purposes and designs; for these were purposed in him: he knew from the beginning who would betray him, and who would believe in him; he knew what would befall the rejecters of him, and when that would come to pass; as he must know also the day of the last judgment, since it is appointed by God, and he is ordained to execute it."

    - from John Gill's Bible commentary on Matthew 24:36

    "but my Father only; to the exclusion of all creatures, angels and men; but not to the exclusion of Christ as God, who, as such, is omniscient; nor of the Holy Spirit, who is acquainted with the deep things of God, the secrets of his heart."

    - also from John Gill's Bible commentary on Matthew 24:36
     
    #26 KenH, Dec 26, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nope.
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. Please see my post #26 above.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,827
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You do understand Jesus being Man is not God and Him being God is not Man. He is both and is one Person being the Son.
     
    #29 37818, Dec 26, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'll stop here (without reading the rest of this post) because this is a Strawman argument.

    Nobody has remotely indicated that Jesus was not fully God, or that Jesus was ever partly God.

    It is unreasonable to expect an intelligent response from a less than honest introduction.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

    This answer plus what I have posted on this subject since you posted several verses, have I answered your questions?
     
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ Jesus, while on this earth, was fully God and fully Man - the God-Man. Period. I am writing in pretty plain English and what I am communicating shouldn't be difficult to understand.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I read it. It is wrong. Christ is fully God and fully man. You are presenting Christ as divided - Christ the Son means Son of man who was not omniscient whike Christ the Son could mean Son of God who is omniscient.

    The fact is the Son did not know the hour, ONLY the Father (which excludes the Son) knew.
     
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I redid the introduction. You can read the rest of the post now.
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The difficulty is you present Christ as the Son of man at times, the Son of God at other times - each having different attributed.

    You post that Christ as the Son of Man did not know own the hour, but Christ the Son of God did (even though Scripture says ONLY the Father knew).

    You are allowing our inability to explain how Christ can be fully God and fully man at the same time to venture into unbiblical territory.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,827
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not according to the word of God. My view is strictly Biblical.
     
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ Jesus has always known the day, the hour, the minute, the very second. Otherwise, He would not be God. He knows it as God, not as Man. While on this earth Christ Jesus was fully God and never ceased to be fully God with all that means. So even while on this earth Christ Jesus as God was omniscient.

    Please, folks, step back and look at the forest and don't just gaze at the trees.
     
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ Jesus had both a Divine and a human nature. God couldn't die. Man can't kill God. God had to take on flesh in order to die as the propitiation for the elect.
     
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Begging the question.

    Christ Jesus said He did not know, that ONLY the Father knew. This does not make Jesus less than God.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. God died for us. All Christians know this (it is a tenet of our faith).
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...