Enduring to the End

[KenH]

He who endureth to the end shall be saved. Matthew 10:22.

Salvation, the joyful sound! But, before the sun of righteousness arose upon us and displayed the glory of his finished salvation to our hearts, alas ! what dark, proud, ignorant notions of salvation did we entertain? Instead of seeing righteousness as a gift by Jesus Christ, and justification of life coming by free gift, and eternal life the gift of God through Jesus Christ....Romans 5:17-18, Romans 6:23.....we vainly thought that salvation was to be obtained by our fulfilling certain terms and conditions . In our natural state of blindness, before we saw Jesus, we thought enduring to the end was the condition of being saved: now we see we are "saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation."....Isaiah 45:17. Yet some, who do not clearly see the glory of Christ's salvation, are puzzling themselves and others with the notion of a conditional salvation. If salvation is put upon our conditions, it behoves us to consider what conditions we are to perform in order to be saved. Every command may be considered as a condition. If we multiply them by four times forty-five, we shall come vastly short of their number; and we may be sure we shall never get to the end, so as to be saved by fulfilling them. O, the arrogance of bankrupt sinners, whose case is quite desperate, and yet think of standing upon terms and conditions with the most high God! But, say some, though of ourselves we can do nothing, yet God enables by his grace to perform the conditions of salvation. This is just like a creditor demanding a large sum of an insolvent debtor, who replies, I cannot pay you....I am not worth one farthing. But, says the creditor, I will come to terms with you: if you will pay me one shilling in the pound, on that condition I will forgive you the whole debt. Says the pennyless debtor, if you will assist me with the money, I will fulfil your condition. Strange compact! If we must have conditions of salvation, they are all to be reduced to this one, if you will save yourselves to the end, you shall be saved IN the end. Consider the evils of this proud, unscriptural notion, and reject it. 1st. While we are taken up with finding these conditions, striving to fulfil them, and looking for salvation by them, we sadly overlook precious Jesus, his blood and righteousness, and awfully depreciate and set at nought his finished salvation. And, 2d. We shall walk on very unhappily, and in the end shall be very uncomfortable. What! if we strive to fulfil God's law? Yes, if we reject his counsel of salvation, by free gift, of free grace, through the one atonement and righteousness of his beloved Son, to make way for our terms and conditions of salvation. So, 3d. We shall bring ourselves into bondage. Says Paul, “I testify to every man who is circumcised (does any work as a condition to be justified and saved) that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of none effect to him.” As he seeks to be justified by the law, he is fallen from grace....Galatians 5:3-4. O brethren! beware, instead of enduring to the end by faith, that you do not stumble and fall at the very beginning through pride. But we began the year, seeing Jesus. We set out on our race with this free-grace truth, “When we had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave us all.”....Luke 7:42. O in this blessed sight, and with this precious faith, let us endure to the end. In, and under all that we have to endure from a corrupt nature, a wicked world, and a subtle, malicious devil, nothing can bring relief to our consciences, patience to our minds, hope to our hearts, peace to our souls, and joy to our spirits, but looking unto Jesus. In him we see salvation-work for ever done for us. We hear and believe his cry from the cross, “It is finished.” We hear him proclaim from his throne in glory, “It is done,” I am Alpha and Omega, “the beginning and end of salvation.”....Revelation 21:6. “We are chosen in him to salvation.” We know this. How? “Through sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth.”....2 Thessalonians 2:13. “Christ, of God, is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption.”....1 Corinthians 1:30. In the faith of this we persevere. “By faith we endure (every fight of affliction) seeing him who is invisible.”....Hebrews 11:27. We “run with patience the race set before us”—How? Looking to terms and conditions of salvation fulfilled by us? O no! But “looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.”....Hebrews 12:2. Consider that precious word, you who are ready to think your faith will not hold out to the end: the same Jesus who is the author will be the finisher of your faith. While legal hearts work for life and salvation, it is the glory of gospel faith to live upon Jesus, who is our life and salvation, and to enjoy life and salvation in Christ every step we take take in the way to endless life and glory: therefore, in spite of all the deceitfulness of sin and the art and malice of Satan, we shall “receive the end of our faith, the salvation of our souls.”....1 Peter 1:9.

- excerpt from William Mason's A Spiritual Treasury For The Children of God, Volume 2, December 31

 

[George Antonios]

Mat_10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mat_13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat_13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat_13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat_24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat_24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

No honest reading of Matthew 10:22 and 24:13 can deny that the soteriology there is indeed conditional on enduring unto the end.
No honest reader of prophecy can deny that the end is the end of this world (age) [not the end of one's life] which terminates with a tribulation and the 2nd coming of Christ.
No honest reader can deny the dozens of cross-references that exhort tribulation believers to hold out for the duration of the tribulation and resist the temptation to take the mark of the beast, failing which they cannot enter the millennial kingdom.

The soteriology of Matthew 10:22 and 24:13 is undeniably conditional, if a person does not pick up the lenses of Pauline church-age salvation by grace and wrest non-Pauline passages to fit the one soteriological truth (that salvation is by grace alone) he knows.

Salvation in Matthew 10:22 and 24:13 is conditional, but it does not apply to us in the church-age.
It applies to tribulation saints after the rapture of the church.

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[KenH]

Mat_10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mat_13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat_13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat_13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat_24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat_24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

No honest reading of Matthew 10:22 and 24:13 can deny that the soteriology there is indeed conditional on enduring unto the end.
No honest reader of prophecy can deny that the end is the end of this world (age) [not the end of one's life] which terminates with a tribulation and the 2nd coming of Christ.
No honest reader can deny the dozens of cross-references that exhort tribulation believers to hold out for the duration of the tribulation and resist the temptation to take the mark of the beast, failing which they cannot enter the millennial kingdom.

The soteriology of Matthew 10:22 and 24:13 is undeniably conditional, if a person does not pick up the lenses of Pauline church-age salvation by grace and wrest non-Pauline passages to fit the one soteriological truth (that salvation is by grace alone) he knows.

Salvation in Matthew 10:22 and 24:13 is conditional, but it does not apply to us in the church-age.
It applies to tribulation saints after the rapture of the church.

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Not really sure why you want to attempt to bring eschatology into this thread but I am an amillennialist(my go-to commentary on the book of Revelation is William Hendriksen's More Than Conquerors) and it sounds like you are not; however, this is not a thread to hash over eschatology. This thread is about salvation being all in Christ alone with no admixture of human works or conditions set by man.

 

[Alan Gross]

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Mat_10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

after the tribulation of The Abomination of Desolation, A.D. 70.

Mat_13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

the harvest is the end of the world

Mat_13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

so shall it be in the end of this world.

Mat_13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

so shall it be in the end of this world.

Mat_24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

I see this: 32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and sprout leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near,f right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away". as a section included in Jesus' second answer to the disciples' second question, "3 While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, (First question) “when will these things happen, and (Second question) what will be the sign of Your coming (of The Abomination of Desolation, A.D. 70.) and (Third question) of the end of the age?”, question

Mat_24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

The Abomination of Desolation, A.D. 70.

Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

of The Abomination of Desolation, A.D. 70.

Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The Abomination of Desolation, A.D. 70.

 

[Alan Gross]

"3 While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said,

(First question) “when will these things happen,

and (Second question) what will be the sign of Your coming (of The Abomination of Desolation, A.D. 70.)

and (Third question) of the end of the age?”

...
Answer to First question, “when will these things happen,"; what things?
Prior to; “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

answered here: "
4 Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains. Mark 13:9–13; Luke 21:10–19)

9 Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, 11 and many false prophets will arise and mislead many. 12 Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

and The answer to the Second question what will be the sign of Your coming
In PROVIDETIAL JUDGMENT (of The Abomination of Desolation, A.D. 70.)


15 So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18 And let no one in the field return for his cloak. 19 How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short. 23 At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you in advance. Mark 13:24–27; Luke 21:25–28)

26 So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

= In The Judgment of Providential Temporary Desolation,
by The Roman Army.

28 Wherever there is a carcass,
= The remains of the dead Jews


there the vultures will gather.
= The Roman Army


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

= In The Judgment of Providential Temporary Desolation,
by The Roman Army.

‘The sun will be darkened, = these Heavenly bodies to be seen as "Governing Bodies",

as in Gen 37:6 "He said to them, “Hear this dream which I have dreamed: 37:7 There we were binding sheaves in the field, when suddenly my sheaf stood up and remained upright; then your sheaves gathered around and bowed low to my sheaf.”

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

= again, "Governing Powers".


30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Mark 13:28–31; Luke 21:29–33)

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and sprout leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door.

= Jesus, in Providential Judgment of the Jews, by the Roman's.

34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

= that generation living

35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

= Heaven and earth passing away is DESCRIBED NEXT.
...

THEN;



The Answer to the Third question, "of the end of the age?”

36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,g but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39 And they were oblivious until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man? 40Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the homeowner had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour you do not expect. 45 Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of his household, to give the others their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ 49 And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. 51 Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[George Antonios]

Not really sure why you want to attempt to bring eschatology into this thread but I am an amillennialist(my go-to commentary on the book of Revelation is William Hendriksen's More Than Conquerors) and it sounds like you are not; however, this is not a thread to hash over eschatology. This thread is about salvation being all in Christ alone with no admixture of human works or conditions set by man.

Some aspects of soteriology change in relation to eschatology.
For example, during this current mystery church-age (from Pentecost to our rapture) salvation is by grace without works.
But after the rapture, during the tribulation, believers will have to endure to the end of the 42 months of the beast without taking his mark, to be saved. That's the context of Matthew 10:22.
You and I don't have to endure to the end of the tribulation to be saved, we got saved the day we believed on Jesus Christ.

You may not agree, but I'm just explaining why I brought eschatology into this

 

[George Antonios]

"3 While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said,

(First question) “when will these things happen,

and (Second question) what will be the sign of Your coming (of The Abomination of Desolation, A.D. 70.)

and (Third question) of the end of the age?”

...
Answer to First question, “when will these things happen,"; what things?
Prior to; “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

answered here: "
4 Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains. Mark 13:9–13; Luke 21:10–19)

9 Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, 11 and many false prophets will arise and mislead many. 12 Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. 13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

and The answer to the Second question what will be the sign of Your coming
In PROVIDETIAL JUDGMENT (of The Abomination of Desolation, A.D. 70.)


15 So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18 And let no one in the field return for his cloak. 19 How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short. 23 At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you in advance. Mark 13:24–27; Luke 21:25–28)

26 So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

= In The Judgment of Providential Temporary Desolation,
by The Roman Army.

28 Wherever there is a carcass,
= The remains of the dead Jews


there the vultures will gather.
= The Roman Army


29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

= In The Judgment of Providential Temporary Desolation,
by The Roman Army.

‘The sun will be darkened, = these Heavenly bodies to be seen as "Governing Bodies",

as in Gen 37:6 "He said to them, “Hear this dream which I have dreamed: 37:7 There we were binding sheaves in the field, when suddenly my sheaf stood up and remained upright; then your sheaves gathered around and bowed low to my sheaf.”

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

= again, "Governing Powers".


30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Mark 13:28–31; Luke 21:29–33)

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and sprout leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near, right at the door.

= Jesus, in Providential Judgment of the Jews, by the Roman's.

34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

= that generation living

35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

= Heaven and earth passing away is DESCRIBED NEXT.
...

THEN;



The Answer to the Third question, "of the end of the age?”

36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,g but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39 And they were oblivious until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man? 40Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the homeowner had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour you do not expect. 45 Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of his household, to give the others their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says in his heart, ‘My master will be away a long time.’ 49 And he begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. 51 Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I appreciate the effort you put in writing these brother but it's hard to read all the different fonts and colours.

 

[Salty]

Not really sure why you want to attempt to bring eschatology into this thread ....

The OP prefers NOT to make this thread into a discussion on eschatology !

But feel free to start a new thread if you so wish.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Hebrews 13:8. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.'

 

[KenH]

salvation is by grace without works.

Salvation has been, is now, and always will be by the sovereign grace of God, without any conditions on man. Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for every single one of God's elect.

 

[George Antonios]

Salvation has been, is now, and always will be by the sovereign grace of God, without any conditions on man. Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for every single one of God's elect.

Well, just restating the claim does not make it true, as orthodox as it may sound.

You're the one that quoted a verse that contradicts your own statement:

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

You and I do not have to endure to the end of the 42 months in resisting the mark of the beast to be saved.
In fact, we don't have to endure anything to be saved...not even each other

 

[KenH]

You and I do not have to endure to the end of the 42 months in resisting the mark of the beast to be saved.

Sounds like you are dispensationalist. If you are, then you should know that I have no use whatsoever for dispensationalism. Of the four basic eschatologies - amillennialism, postmillennialism, historic premillennialism, dispensational premillennialism - dispensationalism is the one that I consider totally bogus and without any merit whatsoever from a Biblical perspective. Like I already wrote, this thread is not about eschatology and I would appreciate you not bringing dispensational nonsense into it, if indeed you are a dispensationalist.

 

[KenH]

You're the one that quoted a verse that contradicts your own statement:

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

"but he that endureth to the end, shall be saved: which words suggest, that the tribulations and persecutions of the disciples of Christ, through the hatred of wicked men against them, shall not last always; there will be an end to them; respecting either the end of time and life, or the destruction of Jerusalem, when these their enemies would be cut off, or removed, and be capable of giving them no further trouble; and that such persons are happy, who patiently endure the hatred of men, and all manner of persecution, for Christ's sake; who are not moved by the afflictions they suffer, but stand fast in the faith, hold fast the profession of it, go on in their Christian course, and hold out to the end; for such shall be saved, not only with a temporal salvation, as the Christians were at the destruction of Jerusalem, but with an eternal one."

- from John Gill's Bible commentary on Matthew 10:22



All of God's elect persevere because they are preserved by God:

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. - Jude 1:24-25

 

[George Antonios]

Sounds like you are dispensationalist. If you are, then you should know that I have no use whatsoever for dispensationalism. Of the four basic eschatologies - amillennialism, postmillennialism, historic premillennialism, dispensational premillennialism - dispensationalism is the one that I consider totally bogus and without any merit whatsoever from a Biblical perspective. Like I already wrote, this thread is not about eschatology and I would appreciate you not bringing dispensational nonsense into it, if indeed you are a dispensationalist.

You don't get to dictate what methodology your brother employs to discuss soteriology.
Soteriology and eschatology go hand-in-hand.
You can disagree, but not dictate how I make my argument, especially when I made relevant, pointed observations.

And again, restating a position and declaring disdain do not a soteriology make.

"but he that endureth to the end, shall be saved: which words suggest, that the tribulations and persecutions of the disciples of Christ, through the hatred of wicked men against them, shall not last always; there will be an end to them; respecting either the end of time and life [VERSE?], or the destruction of Jerusalem, when these their enemies would be cut off, or removed, and be capable of giving them no further trouble; and that such persons are happy, who patiently endure the hatred of men [CONDITION], and all manner of persecution [CONDITION], for Christ's sake; who are not moved by the afflictions they suffer [CONDITION], but stand fast in the faith [CONDITION], hold fast the profession of it [CONDITION], go on in their Christian course [CONDITION], and hold out to the end [CONDITION]; for such shall be saved, not only with a temporal salvation, as the Christians were at the destruction of Jerusalem, but with an eternal one."

- from John Gill's Bible commentary on Matthew 10:22

So you and Gill agree that salvation is conditional on works.

The "all true believers will persevere" of course flies in the face of a dozen scriptures, but no matter. Let's just cherry pick the ones that fit our soteriology. We do that by disdaining dispensationalism and just ignoring verses which contradict (if dispensationalism be ignored) like:

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

That's a true believer drawing back unto the perdition of his soul because he did not endure, no matter how you slice it friend.
And it does not apply to you and me because it isn't addressed to us.

 

[Salty]

The OP prefers NOT to make this thread into a discussion on eschatology !

But feel free to start a new thread if you so wish.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT ESCHATOLOGY WILL BE DELETED WITHOUT COMMENT!

 

[KenH]

So you and Gill agree that salvation is conditional on works.

FALSE!!!!!!!!!!

What part of the following, which I wrote earlier, do you not comprehend?

Salvation has been, is now, and always will be by the sovereign grace of God, without any conditions on man. Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for every single one of God's elect.

 

[KenH]

How do you want me to make my point without referencing the future dispensations?

If you cannot refrain, then maybe you should excuse yourself from this thread. You can start one of your own.

 

[George Antonios]

FALSE!!!!!!!!!!

What part of the following, which I wrote earlier, do you not comprehend?

Salvation has been, is now, and always will be by the sovereign grace of God, without any conditions on man. Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for every single one of God's elect.

Then you quoted this conditional list which the believers must fulfill:

"but he that endureth to the end, shall be saved: which words suggest, that the tribulations and persecutions of the disciples of Christ, through the hatred of wicked men against them, shall not last always; there will be an end to them; respecting either the end of time and life, or the destruction of Jerusalem, when these their enemies would be cut off, or removed, and be capable of giving them no further trouble; and that such persons are happy, who patiently endure the hatred of men, and all manner of persecution, for Christ's sake; who are not moved by the afflictions they suffer, but stand fast in the faith, hold fast the profession of it, go on in their Christian course, and hold out to the end; for such shall be saved, not only with a temporal salvation, as the Christians were at the destruction of Jerusalem, but with an eternal one."

- from John Gill's Bible commentary on Matthew 10:22

And then I anticipated the "but the believers fulfill them by being preserved" argument by noting that:

The "all true believers will persevere" of course flies in the face of a dozen scriptures, but no matter. Let's just cherry pick the ones that fit our soteriology. We do that by disdaining dispensationalism and just ignoring verses which contradict (if dispensationalism be ignored) like:

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

That's a true believer drawing back unto the perdition of his soul because he did not endure, no matter how you slice it friend.
And it does not apply to you and me because it isn't addressed to us.

So all your points were fairly addressed.

 

[George Antonios]

If you cannot refrain, then maybe you should excuse yourself from this thread. You can start one of your own.

I was not asking you. Nor did you answer the question my friend.

 

[KenH]

Then you quoted this conditional list which the believers must fulfill:

FALSE!!!!!!!!!! I did no such thing. Neither did John Gill. There are NO CONDITIONS for any of God's elect to fulfill.

And then I anticipated the "but the believers fulfill them by being preserved" argument

FALSE!!!!!!!!!! There are NO CONDITIONS for any of God's elect to fulfill.