1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ordained in the Father's Gift, Christ's Purchase, the Holy Spirit's Regenerating Grace

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Jan 11, 2023.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

    "Here is the relief to every child of God, which this history teacheth, and which every age of the Church affords the same. We are told, that in the mixed multitude of Jew and Gentile, the Lord's testimony was given. For, as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed. Reader! this is the grand and essential standard. This forms the blessed decision, amidst all doubts and questions of men. All that were ordained to eternal life, in the Father's gift, Christ's purchase, and the Holy Ghost's regenerating grace, believed. Provision was made for these blessed effects from everlasting. Thy people (said Jehovah to Christ,) shall be willing in the day of thy power, Psalms 110:3. All that the Father giveth me (said Christ) shall come to me, John 6:37. According to his mercy (said Paul) he saved us by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost, Titus 3:5. Precious Lord Jesus! while thy redeemed are daily praying for an increase of faith, give us grace to praise thee for the least portion, which so fully proves our interest and everlasting safety in thee. As many as were ordained to eternal life believed!"

    - from Robert Hawker's Poor Man's Commentary on Acts chapter 13
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,909
    Likes Received:
    2,128
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks for posting this., @KenH.
    We have had desperate efforts to try to make Acts 13:48 mean something other than what it so obviously means, even drafting in the 'Living Bible' to help them. I understand that that version was written by someone with no knowledge of the Biblical languages.
    Tasso means to arrange, to set in order or to ordain. It never means to desire or to want. It is also in the Passive Voice, so the 'as Many' in the text did nothing. They were ordained by God to eternal life; their hearts were opened to receive the truth of the Gospel (Acts of the Apostles 16:14-15), and they therefore believed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,828
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Evidently the who is not explicit as to who is doing the deciding regarding tasso in Acts of the Apostles 13:48. Note what the MLV puts in italics, ". . . And while the Gentiles are hearing this, they were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and they believed as many as were appointing themselves toward everlasting life. . . ."
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Desperate attempts?
    Do you know what the Greek word is behind opposed themselves in Acts 18:6, a parallel passage?
    It's ἀντιτάσσομαι antitassomai; i.e. literally "anti-ordained".
    The Jews in Acts 18:6 "anti-ordained" themselves against the gospel, parallel to the verse just before Acts 13:48 where the Jews themselves judged themselves unworthy of eternal life (Acts 13:46) the contrast to which are the Gentiles ordaining (that is, setting/ranging themselves) to eternal life 2 verses later, in the same breath, by the fact that they glorified the word of God, unlike the Jews.

    The word ordained is just fine as a translation, but it is the inability/refusal to unlearn the loaded pre-suppositional Calvinistic connotations of the word ordained that make you read Acts 13:48 as Calvinism.
    When the Calvinist mind hits the verse, he reads it like this:
    Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life [by God by an unspecified-criterion decree before the foundation of the world] believed.
    But the bold is not in the text, it is only in the mind.
    The Calvinist mind forgets explanatory parallel verses like:
    Psa 50:23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.
    Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
    Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


    That's why we understand the verse as it stands, without presuppositional loading, that the Gentiles were ordained, in the sense of ranged, towards eternal life, for the reason given by Luke himself, in the same chapter and verse!

    Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
    Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord:


    Luke thus defines the Gentiles' ordination. It's right there looking back at us.

    That's why it has been rightly said "Calvinism and context never go together".

    When my mom was a teenager, her Orthodox family took her to a site where "Mary" was appearing and granting wishes to anyone who passed under a carriage of flowers.
    People flocked to ask for healing, promotions, marriage, pregnancy, etc.
    My mom asked for eternal life.
    Evidently she did not get saved there, but that was a wise desire.
    'Twas but shortly thereafter that she heard the gospel and got saved by faith in Christ Jesus.
     
    #4 George Antonios, Jan 12, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2023
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What is MLV an abbreviation for?
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,909
    Likes Received:
    2,128
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hello George,
    It's good to see you getting down into the Greek rather than relying on the simple clarity of your KJV. ;)
    Yes, antitassomai means to 'oppose' or 'resist;' literally to set oneself in battle-array against something. It is also found in James 4:6. Tasso, however, means to 'arrange,' 'put in order,' 'appoint,' ' post' or 'station,' 'assign,' 'fix' or 'settle.' [Lliddle & Scott's Lexicon] In Acts 18:6, the verb is in the Passive, so whichever word of those you choose, it was done to the Gentiles, not by them.
    There! We've agreed again! Is that four times now?
    But the decree is not unspecified, is it?
    1 Thessalonians 1:4. 'Knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.'
    2 Thessalonians 2:13. ''.......Because God, from the beginning, chose you for salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth' [cf. also Ephesians 1:4-5]
    Why do you think I would have problems with these verses? No one who does not praise God, fear Him, and do 'works befitting repentance' (Acts 26:20) will enter the kingdom of heaven. The only difference between you and me is that I do not believe that anyone will do these things unless God opens his heart to do so (Romans 3:10-19).
    Nor do I have a problem with these verses, save that if you take them too literally you end up with salvation by works. They are part of Paul's great argument from Romans 1:18 onwards showing that no one actually does these things, and therefore 'both Jews and Greeks are all alike under sin' (Romans 39)
    But,
    1. '...The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned' (1 Corinthians 2:14).
    2. There is a type of person who 'hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while.....' (Matthew 13:20-21). If you have been a Pastor any length of time you will have come across such people. That is why we are told that only 'those who were ordained to eternal life believed.' Unless God opens the heart to believe, no one will ever do so unto salvation. Not because God prevents them from doing so - 'Whoever calls upon the name of the LORD will be saved' - but because men and women by nature have wicked unbelieving hearts. I know; I was that man!
    That's great! :)
    I am glad that your mom was saved; I wish I could be as certain about my mother. However, it was God the Holy Spirit who led your mom to ask for eternal life, and He who graciously led her to trust in the finished work of the Saviour. 'For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.........'
     
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,909
    Likes Received:
    2,128
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think it might be the MisLeading Version :Roflmao
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,828
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Modern Literal Version.
     
  9. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Whoever said I have a problem with pointing out the Greek? That's more your assumptions than my statements. My issue is with "correcting" the KJB. There is nothing to "correct".

    If it was with anyone else, I'd call sleight of hand here. But I know that's not your case.
    You are comparing the same word with the added suffix "anti". The translation of antitassomai as "oppose" is a dynamic translation. Your "however" only makes sense because you're comparing a dynamic rendering of antitassomai VS a formal rendering of tasso.
    To be consistent, you should say that tasso means "ordain" (or align, range, set) and antitassomai's root is "anti-ordain" (or anti-align, anti-range, anti-set) (hence oppose). So your "however" is misleading.
    You know as well as I do that Calvinistic philosophy does not admit of anyone "anti-ordaining" themselves against the gospel anymore than it allows anyone "ordaining" themselves to the gospel (with "ordain" here being used in the high-jacked Calvinist sense of a decree of God).
    Shedding the pre-loaded Calvinistically philosophical connotation of the word "ordain", we have people "anti-ordaining" (opposing) themselves against the gospel in Acts 18:6, and people "ordained" (having previously aligned themselves) to the gospel. They are mirror images, just as Acts 13:46's judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life is the mirror image of Acts 13:48's as many as were ordained to eternal life.
    Just look at it brother without the pre-loaded Calvinistic connotation of the word "ordained", if you can (I don't mean to sound reproachful, it genuinely is very hard to shed pre-loaded connotations. It's hard for me too in certain matters):
    Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
    [...]
    Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.


    Well that illustrates the point now, doesn't it. Where did you see "decree" in 1Thessalonians 1:4 or 2Thessalonians 2:13?
    Let's broaden it. Where did you see any criterion of selection in those verses?
    Nothing in those verses tells you why those men were chosen.
    As a former Calvinist myself, I can surmise what's going on in your mind now.
    And it's more ethereal Calvinistic supposition coming in to colour the text.
    Ex: "exactly, there is no criterion for God's choosing, it's a mystery". Of course that ignores dozens of passages that God chooses to save those who receive his Son. But no matter, that is childish theology to a deeper Calvinist.
    When you see the word "election", just like when you see "ordained', the loaded presupposed connotations are again doing their magic. You see in "election" what you see in "ordained" - yet again that elusive decree of God which is conspicuously absent from all proof text. It's ethereal, you can touch it anywhere, you can't nail it down in any verse.
    You read 1Thessalonians 1:4 like you read Acts 13:48. The same modus operandi:

    Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life [by God by an unspecified-criterion decree before the foundation of the world] believed.

    1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election
    [by an unspecified-criterion decree before the foundation of the world] of God.

    But wait! There is good old:
    Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


    But the election there is not the choosing of a lost man to salvation, but a saved man to receive the blessing of standing before God and the predestination is not that of a lost man to salvation but of a saved man to adoption which Paul defines as a Christ-like body at the resurrection in Romans 8.
    You see again, the pre-loaded connotations of Calvinism colour the words "predestination" and "adoption" with no input from the context.
    Nor were you in him before the foundation of the world, Paul being careful to point out that you got in him only after that ye believed but 9 verses later.
     
  10. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And ah yes, the classic context-ignoring use of 2Thessalonians 2:13
    2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    One more time, the pre-loaded philosophy colours the verse by reading words that are not there: case #3

    Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life [by God by an unspecified-criterion decree before the foundation of the world] believed.

    1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election [by an unspecified-criterion decree before the foundation of the world] of God.

    2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning [of the world] chosen you to salvation [from hell] through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    It's amazing what the mind can do when it supplies words of its own. Never mind that Paul had written the Philippians that
    Php_4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.

    And let's look at the context. Salvation from what, Paul? Hell? No, from the day of the Lord, the tribulation:

    2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


    Twelve verses Paul spent telling us that God has chosen to save the believer (not the lost man...Paul is speaking to saved people) from the rule of the antichrist and from the day of Christ.

    That is why, again, we say: "Calvinism and Context never go together".

    No one said the text said that. It basically implied that God brings the gospel to people who were searching for eternal life: re the Gentiles of Acts 13:48, Cornelius, etc.

    Again, no one denies that. The mechanism is where we differ.

    But hey, we are agreeing more and more often, so there's hope for both of us :)
     
    #10 George Antonios, Jan 12, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2023
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,828
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,035
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A couple of other "literal" versions:

    Acts of the Apostles 13:48-49 And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe — as many as were appointed to life age-during; and the word of the Lord was spread abroad through all the region. (Young's Literal Translation 1898)

    Acts of the Apostles 13:48-49 And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the LORD, and believed—as many as were appointed to continuous life; and the word of the LORD was spread abroad through all the region. (Literal Standard Version)
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,828
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Acts of the Apostles 13:48-49, . . . And the nations having rejoiced, honoured the word of the Lord: and they believed, as many as were drawn out for eternal life. And the word of the Lord was conveyed through the whole country. . . . (Julia E. Smith literal translation, 1867)
     
Loading...