The Mark is coming

[Cathode]

I'm holding to the traditions Paul taught.

It’s not just Paul’s Spoken Tradition, he says “taught by us “. All the Apostles were inspired preachers by the power of The Holy Spirit.

The Spoken Word of God explains the Written Word of God, both are of the same force, both abide forever.

Catholics have held on to both as Scripture says and the Oral Tradition guarded by The Holy Spirit, Protestants broke from both. If they held to the scripture, they wouldn’t have broken from Apostolic Oral Tradition. Today they still don’t hold to Apostolic Tradition, and are still in breech of Scripture which tells them to.

 

[37818]

There were no denominations in the bible.

The beginnings existed, 1 Corinthians 1:12-13, ". . . Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? . . ."

 

[Cathode]

The beginnings existed, 1 Corinthians 1:12-13, ". . . Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? . . ."

They weren’t beginnings of denominations, Paul shut the stupidity down by pointing out the obvious.

 

[37818]

They weren’t beginnings of denominations, Paul shut the stupidity down by pointing out the obvious.

We disagree. But Paul was shutting it down, we agreed on that. And the fact is, the New Testament documents remain the sole Apostolic authority.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

They weren’t beginnings of denominations, Paul shut the stupidity down by pointing out the obvious.

Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30. 'For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also, from among yourselves, men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.' See also 2 Timothy 4:3. The apostasy set in before the passing of the apostles but accelerated afterwards. I don't consider 1 Clement in any sense to be an inspired document, but it does indicate that Paul was not able to "shut the stupidity down," or if he did, a different stupidity soon emerged.

I deny absolutely the idea of a 'oral tradition.' If it was oral, how on earth do we know what it was? I'd sooner believe in the angel Moroni bringing the book of Mormon to Joseph Smith!! At least that is written down so we know what it is, even if it's rubbish.

 

[Cathode]

Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30. 'For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also, from among yourselves, men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.' See also 2 Timothy 4:3. The apostasy set in before the passing of the apostles but accelerated afterwards. I don't consider 1 Clement in any sense to be an inspired document, but it does indicate that Paul was not able to "shut the stupidity down," or if he did, a different stupidity soon emerged.

We consider Luther, Calvin among many others were those wolves. They have alienated you from the ancient Apostolic understanding of Scripture, such that you think the Apostolic Church is in error, foreign and pagan even. Private interpretation is parental alienation, it’s a crime against following generations.
It’s the definition of deceiving the little ones.

I deny absolutely the idea of a 'oral tradition.' If it was oral, how on earth do we know what it was? I'd sooner believe in the angel Moroni bringing the book of Mormon to Joseph Smith!! At least that is written down so we know what it is, even if it's rubbish.

You have an Oral Tradition, only it’s not Apostolic, you were told the interpretation of scripture that came from a tradition of men in Protestantism.
Instead of clinging to the inspired Oral Tradition of Paul and The Apostles, Protestantism followed all the different Oral traditions of men in the last 500 years.

 

[AustinC]

We consider Luther, Calvin among many others were those wolves. They have alienated you from the ancient Apostolic understanding of Scripture, such that you think the Apostolic Church is in error, foreign and pagan even. Private interpretation is parental alienation, it’s a crime against following generations.
It’s the definition of deceiving the little ones.



You have an Oral Tradition, only it’s not Apostolic, you were told the interpretation of scripture that came from a tradition of men in Protestantism.
Instead of clinging to the inspired Oral Tradition of Paul and The Apostles, Protestantism followed all the different Oral traditions of men in the last 500 years.

Be honest. You personally don't know much, if anything, about Luther or Calvin and what they observed in scripture as compared to the RCC. You have blindly accepted the word of the RCC, without ever questioning it. In fact, the RCC has you so petrified of their hand of rebuke that you will not even consider coloring outside the lines they prescribe. Whether the RCC is true or false, you would never know, because you live your life in fear of their institution rather than in fear of God most high and Jesus, the King of Kings.

 

[Cathode]

Be honest. You personally don't know much, if anything, about Luther or Calvin and what they observed in scripture as compared to the RCC. You have blindly accepted the word of the RCC, without ever questioning it. In fact, the RCC has you so petrified of their hand of rebuke that you will not even consider coloring outside the lines they prescribe. Whether the RCC is true or false, you would never know, because you live your life in fear of their institution rather than in fear of God most high and Jesus, the King of Kings.

The Apostles rule in their successors, who maintained the same Apostolic understanding of Scripture.
“He who listens to you, listens to me “

“ My Sheep know my voice “

It’s in the Oral Apostolic Tradition that we hear the voice of Christ, not Luther or Calvin, the more I hear them, the less I hear Christ. These are not good people, I don’t hear Christ’s voice, they are revolting.

“Through none others know we the disposition of our salvation, than those through whom the gospel came to us, first heralding it, then by the will of God delivering to us the Scriptures, which were to be the foundation and pillar of our faith…But when, the heretics use Scriptures, as if they were wrong, and unauthoritative, and were variable, and the truth could not be extracted from them by those who were ignorant of Tradition…And when we challenge them in turn what that tradition, which is from the Apostles, which is guarded by the succession of elders in the churches, they oppose themselves to Tradition, saying that they are wiser, not only than those elders, but even than the Apostles. The Tradition of the Apostles, manifested ‘on the contrary’ in the whole world, is open in every Church to all who see the truth…And, since it is a long matter in a work like this to enumerate these successions, we will confute them by pointing to the Tradition of that greatest and most ancient and universally known Church, founded and constituted at Rome by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul, a tradition which she has had and a faith which she proclaims to all men from those Apostles.’ Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3,1-3 (inter A.D. 180/199).

 

[37818]

The Apostles rule in their successors, who maintained the same Apostolic understanding of Scripture.
“He who listens to you, listens to me “

“ My Sheep know my voice “

It’s in the Oral Apostolic Tradition that we hear the voice of Christ, not Luther or Calvin, the more I hear them, the less I hear Christ. These are not good people, I don’t hear Christ’s voice, they are revolting.

“Through none others know we the disposition of our salvation, than those through whom the gospel came to us, first heralding it, then by the will of God delivering to us the Scriptures, which were to be the foundation and pillar of our faith…But when, the heretics use Scriptures, as if they were wrong, and unauthoritative, and were variable, and the truth could not be extracted from them by those who were ignorant of Tradition…And when we challenge them in turn what that tradition, which is from the Apostles, which is guarded by the succession of elders in the churches, they oppose themselves to Tradition, saying that they are wiser, not only than those elders, but even than the Apostles. The Tradition of the Apostles, manifested ‘on the contrary’ in the whole world, is open in every Church to all who see the truth…And, since it is a long matter in a work like this to enumerate these successions, we will confute them by pointing to the Tradition of that greatest and most ancient and universally known Church, founded and constituted at Rome by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul, a tradition which she has had and a faith which she proclaims to all men from those Apostles.’ Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3,1-3 (inter A.D. 180/199).

The Apostolic succession are solely the teachings as found in the New Testament documents.

 

[Cathode]

That is why Paul says to cling to both the Oral Tradition and Written Tradition from the Apostles, not just the written.

The singular and right understanding of Scripture has been guarded and handed down in Truth from the Apostles, it is not in any of the traditions of men founded on many fallible and conflicting interpretations of Scripture.

“Then I have pointed out the truth, and shown the preaching of the Church, which the prophets proclaimed (as I have already demonstrated), but which Christ brought to perfection, and the apostles have handed down, from which the Church, receiving, and throughout all the world alone preserving them in their integrity, has transmitted them to her sons. Then also-having disposed of all questions which the heretics propose to us, and having explained the doctrine of the apostles, and clearly set forth many of those things which were said and done by the Lord in parables…that they may preserve steadfast the faith which they have received, guarded by the Church in its integrity, in order that they be in no way perverted by those who endeavor to teach them false doctrine…” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Preface V (inter A.D. 180/199).

‘So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word, or by our epistle of ours’. Hence it is manifest, that they did not deliver all things by Epistle, but many things unwritten, and in like manner both the one and the other are worthy of credit. Therefore let us think the tradition of the Church also worthy of credit. It is a tradition seek no farther.” John Chrysostom, Homilies on Second Thessalonians (c. A.D. 392).

If people can not endure the sound doctrine of ancient Apostolic Tradition, it leaves them vulnerable to the many unsound doctrines of the traditions of men. This is manifest across all of Protestantism, each interpreting its own doctrines from scripture.

 

[AustinC]

The Apostles rule in their successors, who maintained the same Apostolic understanding of Scripture.
“He who listens to you, listens to me “

“ My Sheep know my voice “

It’s in the Oral Apostolic Tradition that we hear the voice of Christ, not Luther or Calvin, the more I hear them, the less I hear Christ. These are not good people, I don’t hear Christ’s voice, they are revolting.

“Through none others know we the disposition of our salvation, than those through whom the gospel came to us, first heralding it, then by the will of God delivering to us the Scriptures, which were to be the foundation and pillar of our faith…But when, the heretics use Scriptures, as if they were wrong, and unauthoritative, and were variable, and the truth could not be extracted from them by those who were ignorant of Tradition…And when we challenge them in turn what that tradition, which is from the Apostles, which is guarded by the succession of elders in the churches, they oppose themselves to Tradition, saying that they are wiser, not only than those elders, but even than the Apostles. The Tradition of the Apostles, manifested ‘on the contrary’ in the whole world, is open in every Church to all who see the truth…And, since it is a long matter in a work like this to enumerate these successions, we will confute them by pointing to the Tradition of that greatest and most ancient and universally known Church, founded and constituted at Rome by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul, a tradition which she has had and a faith which she proclaims to all men from those Apostles.’ Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3,1-3 (inter A.D. 180/199).

You regurgitate what the not original church tells you, but you have no scripture that says the apostolic tradition runs through Rome. Your church is literally making things up and calling them "oral tradition."
If God's word does not proclaim Rome as the only church ordained by God, then any claim by Rome is purely unsupported and false.
My disappointment with you is that you take God's direct word and make it less than your churches word. That's a dangerous thing to do when you won't go to God for an answer, but you will go to fallible men for an answer.

 

[Cathode]

The Apostolic succession are solely the teachings as found in the New Testament documents.

You forget there is a living Church in Scripture.

When Paul died, there was Timothy, Titus and many others. The Apostles appointed others, men they approved, to carry forward Apostolic Tradition whether by word of mouth or written.

 

[Salty]

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[Cathode]

You regurgitate what the not original church tells you, but you have no scripture that says the apostolic tradition runs through Rome. Your church is literally making things up and calling them "oral tradition."
If God's word does not proclaim Rome as the only church ordained by God, then any claim by Rome is purely unsupported and false.
My disappointment with you is that you take God's direct word and make it less than your churches word. That's a dangerous thing to do when you won't go to God for an answer, but you will go to fallible men for an answer.

God must be giving conflicting answers in bible alone churches then, each coming away with their own interpretations and doctrines. None of their human founded traditions go past 500 years ago, let alone back to the Apostles.

 

[Cathode]

The sad thing is the divisions private interpretations of scripture have caused, not just alienation against the Apostolic Church but alienation’s against each other, where there should be brotherly unity in Christ.
There’s nothing more shameful than making the Holy Word of God the source these divisions.

 

[AustinC]

The sad thing is the divisions private interpretations of scripture have caused, not just alienation against the Apostolic Church but alienation’s against each other, where there should be brotherly unity in Christ.
There’s nothing more shameful than making the Holy Word of God the source these divisions.

There are divisions within the spectrum of the RCC. Had the RCC actually reformed itself, the divisions would be less, but, alas the godless political power brokers in Rome refused to go back to God's word and reform. Instead, they pushed forward, becoming the Scribes and Pharisees of Christianity that God calls a brood of vipers.

 

[37818]

You forget there is a living Church in Scripture.

When Paul died, there was Timothy, Titus and many others. The Apostles appointed others, men they approved, to carry forward Apostolic Tradition whether by word of mouth or written.

The churches are God's making, even as the Holy Scriptures are God's making. The word of mouth traditions were with the then Apostles. The last living Apostle was John through whom Jesus gave the book Revelation, the close of the given Apostolic authority given the churches.

 

[AustinC]

God must be giving conflicting answers in bible alone churches then, each coming away with their own interpretations and doctrines. None of their human founded traditions go past 500 years ago, let alone back to the Apostles.

I can only speak for myself and say that I observe God's word, I ask God questions about what he means. I interpret what I observe. I check my interpretation against the great legacy of saints (see Hebrews 11 and Hebrews 12). I apply God's word to my life. It's a full process that never ends.

Anytime someone dismisses studying and checking in order to let someone else just tell them what to believe, I recognize that they have not actually read what God tells them in His word.

*2 Timothy 2:8-26*
Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel, for which I am suffering, bound with chains as a criminal. But the word of God is not bound! Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself. Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.” Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work. So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

 

[37818]

The sad thing is the divisions private interpretations of scripture have caused, not just alienation against the Apostolic Church but alienation’s against each other, where there should be brotherly unity in Christ.
There’s nothing more shameful than making the Holy Word of God the source these divisions.

The written word of God is the sole final authority in all matters of the faith and it's practice. The divisions are do to not truely following it. Prove otherwise.

 

[Salty]

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