What do you guys think of Author Pinks handling of "Duty Faith"?

[Alan Gross]

. He even used the stand at the door and knocks,

I believe the invitation to "sup" with Jesus is given to His children and specifically to His churches, such as it is, in Revelation 3:14 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;"

Then, in the immediate prior context to Jesus knocking:

15 "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

which so many Calvinists hate as an illustration.

When, it is misapplied to the lost.

Nothing about it will fly.

I don't see Communion with God, or anything like that ( that Jesus will "sup" with them(?) offered to the lost, in the previous Books of the Bible.

I see similar written to the saved, in the previous verses and in other parts of the Bible.

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me." John 15:4

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice*, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

*Again, the context of "any man", is Revelation 3:14 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;"

OF COMMUNION WITH GOD BOOK I - Google Search

 

[DaveXR650]

@Alan Gross . The point is that the guys who came up with the confessions and the top Calvinists of the 1600's through the 1800's did preach in a warm, inviting way, even using illustrations like Jesus standing at your heart's door in their sermons. All I'm saying is that to believe that salvation is all of God and that faith is a gift of God does not mean you can't preach asking for a decision, and with appeals to the rational mind and free will of the people in the crowd.

Otherwise, why would someone like Owen, who wrote the definitive argument for a particular atonement, the one that everyone still uses today, preach like that? If a preacher says "you better turn to Christ for forgiveness of your sins" and you do it it's going to appear to you that you heard the message and decided to change course. It is also true that this occurred because of a work of the Holy Spirit, which is the main reason the person sitting next to you, who is just as smart as you, and just as virtuous as you, thought the same message was a joke.

 

[Alan Gross]

I told you you would like seeing this OP.

illustrations like Jesus standing at your heart's door in their sermons

I believe they messed up there. A little short- sighted.

I'm saying is that to believe that salvation is all of God and that faith is a gift of God does not mean you can't preach asking for a decision,

Right.

the rational mind

? I think I know what you mean, simply to comprehend the words that the Holy Spirit might use.

free will

Ooooo. I still think I know what you mean. That is the point of conflict, as you know. I say the only "free will" a naturally born person has is a free will to sin.

Not as Spiritually dead "choosing God", who is Spirit. They can't relate in the same Spiritual ream He is in.

"you better turn to Christ for forgiveness of your sins

They better, yes.

going to appear to you that you heard the message and decided to change course

Until and if they are taught different from the Book and Holy Spirit. To give all the praise to God.

. It is also true that this occurred because of a work of the Holy Spirit, which is the main reason the person sitting next to you, who is just as smart as you, and just as virtuous as you, thought the same message was

Right. That is that explanation.

Thank you!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

"Again: "The atonement of Christ has made objective provision for the salvation of all, by renewing from the divine mind every obstacle to the pardon and restoration of sinners, except their wilful opposition to God and refusal to turn to Him." Andrew Fuller

Fuller sometimes oerstates his case, but his general point is the same as that made by the first Particular Baptists such as Kiffin, Keach, Bunyan, and others. It is the Hyper-Calvinist case that is the newcomer, for it was not put foward until the 18th Century.

But the Biblical fact is this: the Bible teaches a definite redemption, yet at the very same time promises salvation to whomever will receive it. John 6:37. 'All that the Father gives Me will come to Me......' Here is particular Redemption. The Lord Jesus will not lose evn one of those the Father has given Him to save. '.......And the one who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out.' 'Here is the universal offer. Whoever wills may come to the Saviour and will not be turned away.. Just in case it's not clear enough, He repeats it in more detail in vs. 39-40.
WE have to take the Scriptures as we find them. Therefore many of the greatest preachers (Bunyan, Whitefield, Spurgeon, Lloyd-Jones, and men like Alistair Begg today) have held to Particular Redemption but called indiscriminately on all men to repent and trust in Christ for salvation. If it was good enough for the LOrd Jesus (Matthew 11:28) it was good enough for them - and for me

 

[DaveXR650]

? I think I know what you mean, simply to comprehend the words that the Holy Spirit might use.

Ooooo. I still think I know what you mean. That is the point of conflict, as you know. I say the only "free will" a naturally born person has is a free will to sin.

Martyn Lloyd-Jones said that when a person's mind is enlightened by the Holy Spirit that what happens is that for the first time he really can think and understand things as they really are. His power of understanding is improved. Most Calvinists say that the work of the Holy Spirit is mainly upon the will so it is enabled to freely come to Christ. (See the wording of the WCF). And yes, I am aware that John Owen clarified that this is NOT just a matter of God freeing our wills so WE can either choose or not choose faith but that he insisted that faith itself is placed within us. I

I used "rational" because Edwards was big on rational thought and common sense. It's not always Biblical but fun to read if you're enough of a nerd.

 

[Alan Gross]

. If it was good enough for the LOrd Jesus (Matthew 11:28) it was good enough for them - and for me

The Pink article says,

"In like manner, we must turn from the vain reasonings (as in the above Articles of Faith) of the hyper-Calvinist, and while holding fast to the total depravity and the spiritual inability of the natural man, we must also believe in his moral responsibility and accountability to God.

It is the bounden duty of God’s servants to tell the unregenerate that the reason why they cannot repent evangelically is because their hearts are so wedded to their lusts; that the reason why they cannot come to Christ is because their sins have fettered and chained them;

that the reason why they hate the Light is because they love the darkness.

But so far from this excusing them, it only adds to their guilt;

that so far from rendering them objects of pity it exposes them as doubly deserving of damnation.

It is the preacher’s business to show wherein spiritual inability consists: not in the lack of soul faculties, but in the absence of any love for Him who is infinitely lovely.

Far be it from us to extenuate the wicked unbelief of the unregenerate!"

...
The Association of Historic Baptists » • The Duty-Faith And Free-Offer Issue

I don't agree with this other Duty Faith article. He messed up what Pink already took care of.

But he does say, "Properly preached, the gospel humbles sinners by exalting Christ.

It does not meddle in the duties of the dead but extols free grace and the sovereign purpose of God to save sinners by the righteousness of Christ and the regenerating gift of faith."

In spite of himself, he is saying to "preach Jesus", which will get it done.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

OH!

I know this one!

I know! I know! Pick me!!

well…what’s your answer little Jonny in the back. Come up here to the lecturn and provide your answer young man.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Martyn Lloyd-Jones said that when a person's mind is enlightened by the Holy Spirit that what happens is that for the first time he really can think and understand things as they really are. His power of understanding is improved. Most Calvinists say that the work of the Holy Spirit is mainly upon the will so it is enabled to freely come to Christ. (See the wording of the WCF). And yes, I am aware that John Owen clarified that this is NOT just a matter of God freeing our wills so WE can either choose or not choose faith but that he insisted that faith itself is placed within us. I

I used "rational" because Edwards was big on rational thought and common sense. It's not always Biblical but fun to read if you're enough of a nerd.

You are aware of course that DM-L-J was a believer in the baptism of the Holy Spirit

 

[JonC]

well…what’s your answer little Jonny in the back. Come up here to the lecturn and provide your answer young man.

I forgot

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Onset dementia probably

 

[Marooncat79]

Probably similar to Scottsdale is this from:

Arthur Pink - Wikipedia

"Whether because of his Calvinistic views, his nearly incredible studiousness, his weakened health, or his lack of sociability, Pink left Spartanburg in 1919 believing that God would "have me give myself to writing."[11]

[11] =
The Life of Arthur W. Pink

Didn’t know he was in Spartanburg. Wow cool

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Onset dementia probably

Oh come on…it’s meant to laugh bro

 

[Salty]

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[Alan Gross]

Systematic Theology, p. 328).


Secondary: HUMAN RESPONSIBILITY

III. HUMAN RESPONSIBILITY DEPENDENT ON KNOWLEDGE

"It needs to be emphasized that man is responsible only so far as he knows, or has within his reach the knowledge of, what is right.

"The heathen is responsible to recognize God because, and only because, "that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.

"For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse" (Rom. 1:19,20).

"As to acts of outward conduct, the heathen is responsible only for the violation of such principles of righteousness as his own conscience recognizes.

"As many as have sinned without the law shall also perish without the law," i. e., those to whom the written law of God has not been made known shall perish, but they shall not perish through the condemnation of the written law.

"How then will they be judged?

"The verses which follow the above quotation show that they will be judged by their own standard of righteousness; they will be charged with no transgressions except those against their own conscience. See Rom. 2:12-15."



"From the above it is evident that the heathen will not be charged with the sin of unbelief or rejection of the gospel; yet they shall perish.

"This shows that it is sin in general that condemns primarily.

"Rejection of the gospel does not bring condemnation to man; it only manifests it and increases the penalty that shall be inflicted because of it."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thanks Alan. I haven't read very much Pink and was a little surprised to hear his take on it. You have to be careful reading him because he gives so much space to quoting the other side you can get mixed up as to who is saying what.

(By the way, it's XR650, not 350. Everyone in my opinion, at some time in their life, should have a dirt bike that can go over 100 mph. It gives you a good understanding of total depravity.)

I had one of the smaller ones I bought from a neighbor when I was in college. Found It in pieces all over the garage floor when I returned home! Seems my younger brother wanted to compete with my friends brothers who had Puch German made bikes that were engineered for dirt riding. OK so I buy a mechanics manual from Honda for my brother with the demand he put it back together .. which he did but he bored out the cylinders, replaced them and converted it to a fuel injected bike. Now the bike is so powerful that it’s hard to control

Moral of he story… don’t leave bikes laying around for your baby brother to experiment on

then I sent hm to school for mechanical engineering and he comes out a diesel mechanic and a IBM computer nerd

 

[MrW]

Denying all men's duty to repent and believe is another reason I cannot accept Calvinism, but it is man's duty:

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

[Alan Gross]

We do not and Calvin does not, for a split second, deny all men are Commanded to Repent.

We deny they have the Spiritual ability, on their own, to Spiritually do a "duty".

If they are told it is their "duty" to do so and so, as if their flesh has the carnal, Spiritually dead, "will", to do that "duty", they can be deceived into "thinking" they have "done what they were told.

They are in sin.

Their sin needs to addressed, as it Offends God and He hates it, so much, because it Killed His Son.

God COMMANDS them to turn from their sin and believe the Gospel.

Denying all men's duty to repent and believe is another reason I cannot accept Calvinism,

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

[Salty]

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