Featured Symbols in the word of God.

I don't even understand what "it" means, in your statement.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

Explain how Revelation 20 harmonizes with 2 Peter 3:10-13.

I think I know where you're going, but I would prefer you just state it rather than myself trying to guess.

 

2 Peter 3:10-13 takes place in Revelation 20, after, "a thousand years".

(In Revelation 20:3, after; "till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.")

 

"... the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory..."

This in Matthew 24:29b & 30 is symbolic.

 

This .pdf has a great commentary on Revelation, IMHO.

Many consider it a Classic.

https://tbc.tn-biblecollege.edu/files/tbc/resthistlib/Hendricksen-W-More_Than_Conquerors_-1940.pdf

SYMBOLISM IN THE BOOK starts on pg.37.

An excerpt:

THE book of Revelation is a series of pictures. The pictures move. They are full of action. Everything is constantly astir. One picture makes place for another; and then another, and another. Let us watch these constantly-changing scenes. Here we have seven golden lampstands with someone walking among them. He is wearing a long robe with a gold belt around his breast. His hair is white as snow, and his eyes blaze like fire. In his right hand he is holding seven stars, and from his mouth issues a sharp double-edged sword.

The scene changes. We see a halo-encircled throne. Out of the throne come flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder. In the right hand of the Lord on the throne there is a scroll, sealed with seven seals. Now someone approaches the throne who is introduced as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. He takes the scroll. Immediately the four living ones round the throne and also twenty-four elders fall down before the Lamb. Each has a harp and gold bowls full of incense, and they are singing a new song. As this music dies, we see four horses, white, red, black, and pale in color. As the horses and riders go out, we see people slaughter one another. Some seem to be hungry; indeed, starving. Others are being thrown before the wild beasts.

We now see the souls of the slaughtered individuals. In a loud voice they are crying underneath the altar. But now the sun becomes black as sackcloth. The full moon takes on the color of blood. The stars of the sky are falling on the earth. The sky is being rolled up just like a scroll. Every mountain and island is being dislodged from its place. People—including kings, nobles, officers, the rich, and the poor alike—are hiding themselves in caves and rocks.

Four angels are holding back the four winds so that they do not immediately damage anything on earth or sea. Now 144, 000 people are marked with a seal, and a great crowd which no one could possibly count, people of every nationality and region on earth, with palm branches in their hands, appear and cry with a loud voice, Our salvation is the work of our God who is seated upon the throne, and of the Lamb.

Seven angels with seven trumpets now appear. Another angel is busily engaged offering incense. Now the censer is being filled with fire. It is emptied upon the earth. This is followed by peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

The entire book consists of changing scenes like these, of moving pictures and active symbols. Moreover, there are sounds, voices, songs, responses, choruses. (Cf. 4: 8, 1 r; 5: 9, 10, 12, 13, 14; 11: 15-18; 12: 10; 15: 3, 4; 19: 1-8; 22: 17. )2 It is rather like a magnificent sound film.

 

Of what? IYO.

 

I notice that Alan Gross and AustinC seems never to have an original thought and cannot process the information of the scriptures on their own. If I were wanting to understand the book, I would pay very close attention to the words and what they say. I would reject the counsel of anyone who suggested that those symbols could not be understood literally but effort would need to be exerted to determine what the symbols actually means. They are consistent thoughout the scriptures and they do not waver from book to book, year to year, dispensation to dispensation. None of the book would make any sense unless you could understand the symbolism.

An important passage in the scriptures informs us that God does not think like men thinks. This means we must learn to think like God thinks. This does not mean we are to stop thinking like men think and to think only like God thinks, because it is imperative to our understanding that we think both ways.

Here is an example and then an illustration.

Men think a day is 24 hours long. But God does not think that way. He tells us how long he thinks a day is in revealing his purpose. Watch this;

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The context is judgement. It is important to recognize this.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

In God's prophetic scheme, one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. So in today's world we are at the end of the 6th one thousand year day and at the very beginning of the 7th day, which, in God's eyes, is the sabbath day, or a day of rest. This is why this day is called the day of the LORD. This brings us to another context in the verses above. "The day of the Lord."

When Peter says, "in the which" one should understand that what he is getting ready to describe will happen sometime during this one thousand year day of the Lord. In this particular case he is dealing with what happens at the very end of the day. We know this by comparing other scriptures that deals with the end of the day. Peter is the only prophet who deals with the end of the day in the immediate context of "the day of the Lord."

Just for a perspective on this prophetic strain called "the day of the Lord" one must understand that it is one of four major themes of the prophetic scriptures. This phrase first shows up in 840 BC and is found 30 times in 29 verses in the books of scripture.It appears in one verse twice. There are 12 different writers over the years during the writing of the prophets who pen this phrase and it shows up in 17 books. In every book and in every place it shows up it is a day that is "coming." It is future. Another characteristic of it's coming is that in the immediate context it is characterized by the wrath of God, his indignation against sin and sinners, his judgement, thick unrelenting darkness and not light, destruction and during this course of the day of the Lord, the removal of every unrepenting sinner from off the earth and it will literally be fulfilled that those who are left on the earth will be born again and Jesus Christ will establish his literal earthly kingdom with none but born again believers in it.

Another characteristic of the coming of the day of the Lord will be that it will come as a thief. It will be unnanounced and unexpeted by the world.

Following is a description that scriptures prophesies about it.

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This is the same day that God has appointed to deal out his wrath against men who will not believe. Pay attention to it;

Ac 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Ro 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


I would like for all to stop and think about this following passage and understand that this prophesy is being prepped to happen even as I type this. Every thing mentioned is beginning to happen now.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Of all the places the day of the Lord is coming, and still has not come, and as we can see it is a day of wrath of God as shown above, there is one place that says that the wrath of the Lord has come;

Read about the day it comes and who says it has come;

Re 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

This is the 30th verse that the Lord's day is mentioned and the # 30 is God's number for maturity.

John said in Revelation 1:3 that his book is a prophecy.
Re 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. When it is at hand and Jesus says he comes quickly, one must remember that it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ and he is using his own definition of a day. This then is but the third day in his description of days.

Here is what else he said.

Re 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

This is the only present tense verse concerning this great judgement of God. It is being described here.

I did not get to my example but I will later. There is much to know and if one will believe the words, he will be safe.

 

So, when are you going to read Revelation 1:1?

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

The Prophetic genre in which it is written is called Apocalyptic.

Turn this around where it can do some good.

I don't think you are there yet.

 

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory."

STUDYING THE BIBLE is FUN
when we Know that we are ENABLED by THE HOLY SPIRIT
to arrive at a correct understanding
of WHAT GOD WANTS US TO UNDERSTAND.

We can arrive at a correct understanding
of Matthew 24 and the Great Tribulation,
by Following The HOLY SPIRIT and READING GOD'S WORD,

IN 'A WAY' THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT SHOWS US
WHAT GOD WANTS US TO UNDERSTAND.

IN THAT WAY: STUDYING THE BIBLE is FUN.

'A WAY' THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ENABLED to SHOW US

that STUDYING THE BIBLE is FUN
and WHAT GOD WANTS US TO UNDERSTAND
is by Following The HOLY SPIRIT and READING GOD'S WORD,

employing Important common sense Interpretive Procedures:

If one is to arrive at
a correct understanding of the Olivet discourse,
he must follow Biblical Principles of Interpretation

(i.e. one must adopt a genuine
grammatical-historical theological hermeneutic,
meaning:

grammatical = WHAT DO THE WORDS SAY?

historical = WHAT WAS TAKING PLACE?

theological = THE STUDY of GOD,

hermeneutic = THE SCIENCE of "Interpretation")

...

Some basic principles of Biblical Interpretation are as follows.

(1) The section of Scripture in question
( Grammatically = WHAT DO THE WORDS SAY?)

must be interpreted in light of the original audience.

( Historically = WHAT WAS TAKING PLACE? )

For example, would a first-century Jewish audience regard a phrase such as

“blood, fire, vapor and smoke”

THESE ARE BIBLE WORDS and GOD PUT THEM THERE.

THE BIBLE CAN BE UNDERSTOOD.

When The Bible Passage includes the Words

“blood, fire, vapor and smoke”

THEY WERE WRITTEN TO PEOPLE IN THE BIBLE,
FOR THEM TO HEAR and UNDERSTAND, at THAT TIME.

Acts 2:19, 20;
"And I will show wonders in heaven above,
and signs in the earth beneath

-- blood and fire and vapor of smoke.

"20 The Sun will be turned into darkness,
and the Moon into blood
before that Great and Notable Day of the Lord Come."

...

Revelation 6:12; cf.;

"And I beheld when He had opened the sixth seal,
and lo, there was a great earthquake,

and the Sun became black as sackcloth of hair,
and the Moon became as blood;

"13 and the Stars of Heaven fell to the Earth,

even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs
when she is shaken by a mighty wind.

"14 And the Heaven departed as a scroll
when it is rolled together,

and every mountain and island
were moved out of their places."

...

Joel 2:28-32;

"And it shall come to pass afterward
that I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh;

and your sons and your daughters will Prophesy,
your old men shall dream Dreams,
your young men will see Visions;

"29 and also upon the servants
and upon the handmaids in those days
will I pour out My Spirit.

30 "And I will show wonders in the Heavens
and in the Earth--

blood and fire and pillars of smoke.

"31 The sun will be turned into darkness
and the Moon into blood,

before

The Great and The Terrible Day of The LORD Come.

"32 And it will Come to Pass,

that whosoever will call on The Name of The LORD will be delivered;

because in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
will be deliverance,

as the LORD Has Said,
and in the remnant whom the LORD Will Call."

...

So, by INCLUDING ALL BIBLE PASSAGES,
and READING GOD'S WORDS,

"GRAMMATICALLY" and "HISTORICALLY",

as to,

"WHAT DID THOSE WORDS MEAN
to THE PEOPLE WHO THEY WERE WRITTEN?

would we 'come up' with

"blood and fire and vapor of smoke",

as 'referring' to 'nuclear war' (??)

or

that, "blood and fire and vapor of smoke"

are OLD and NEW COVENANT PROPHETIC IMAGES

THAT GOD AS ALREADY PLACED in THE OLD and NEW TESTAMENT

TO "PICTURE":

God's Impending Judgment on Israel?,
In Jerusalem, in A.D. 70.

See How FUN that is?

And How IMPORTANT it is,
SIMPLY to READ THE BIBLE?

That was with One common sense
Principle of Bible Interpretation.
...

Here is a second Principle of Bible Interpretation
that MAKES BIBLE STUDY FUN.

(2) Scripture must be used to interpret Scripture.

In Matthew 24, Jesus uses the terminology
that comes directly from the Old Testament Prophetic books.

What makes more sense?:

using the Bible to give us the meaning
of such Apocalyptic Images,

in THE BIBLE'S OWN WORD PICTURES?,

or using 'speculations'?,
PURELY DREAMED UP, OUT OF NOWHERE (???)
'founded' upon the New York Times or Newsweek?

...

Thirdly,

(3) One must Interpret Biblical Passages
according to their Literary Type.

Many Prophetic passages use the poetic metaphor
and the "Word Pictures", of Apocalyptic Imagery.

Apocalyptic or poetic imagery
must be treated in a different manner
then a straightforward Historical account.

Once again the key to understanding Prophetic Imagery

(e.g., Stars falling from Heaven,

the Sun becoming dark,

the Sky rolled up like a scroll, etc.)

is to see how such Imagery is used in the Bible,

rather than 'use' (??) current events
and modern scientific discoveries to 'speculate',
OUT OF THIN AIR (??),

and "INVENT" IMAGINARY TRASH about supposed:

nuclear war,
bar codes,
computer chips in the hand and forehead,
attack helicopters,
tanks, etc.?

THE BIBLE DEFINES ITS OWN "WORD PICTURES".

Most books THAT PEOPLE
HAVE 'REASONED OUT with THEIR MIND",
(which HAS BEEN EFFECTED by THE CURSE of SIN)

'attempt' to say they are writing on 'Prophecy' today

are COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED
Exegetically from the Biblical text

for ANY Critical explanation or analysis,
to INTERPRET WHAT GOD SAYS

and thus are nothing more
then the 'clever fantasies' of the different authors,

WHICH ARE MEANINGLESS,
OTHER THAN BEING a PURE WASTE of TIME and BLASPHEME.

...

Forth:

(4) The time indicators, HISTORICALLY,

within the discourse and the immediate context
that relates to the discourse

(e.g., MATTHEW 23:36;

"Truly I Say to you,
all these things Will Come upon this generation"

must be taken into account
when determining the meaning
of this section of Scripture.

The time indicators

(if taken at face value,
i.e. according to the normal etymological meaning)

prove that Jesus’ discourse in Matthew 24,
at verse 15, through 34,
is answering the Discipal second question,
after Jesus had referred to the Temple and told them,
“Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another;
every one will be thrown down.”

The First Question was concerning the time
leading up to The Abomination of Desolation,
the coming of Jesus in Providential Judgement
upon the Jews at Jerusalem, A.D.70)

“Tell us,” they said, ",
In other words, "when shall these things be?", i.e.,
"not one stone here will be left on another;
every one will be thrown down,” of the Temple?

Jesus answers their First Question, in Matthew 24:4-14.

...
con't

 

The Disciples' second question,
"what will be the sign of Your coming", regards
the coming of Jesus (that HE was talking about,
when,
"not one stone here will be left on another;
every one will be thrown down,” of the Temple)
is when Jesus comes in Providential Judgement
upon the Jews at Jerusalem, A.D.70,

"15 So when you see standing in the holy place
‘the abomination of desolation,’
described by the prophet Daniel
(let the reader understand)

Jesus answers that second question is in Matthew 24:15-34.

Matthew 24:15-34 must be applied directly
and solely to Christ’s Judgment upon Jerusalem
and the Complete End of the Jewish age,
even the Symbolic Bible Imagiary of Matthew 24, 29, 30;

29 "Immediately after the tribulation" (of those days,
leading up to The Abomination of Desolation
answered in their First question
when,
"not one stone here will be left on another;
every one will be thrown down,” of the Temple,
when Jesus comes in Providential Judgement, using the Romans,
upon the Jews at Jerusalem, A.D.70.)

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken."

( Rulers and Governmental Power,
such as those spoken of in Joseph's dream, in Genesis 37:9;
“Listen,” he said, “I had another dream,
and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars
were bowing down to me.”)

30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man
will appear in heaven and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven,
with power and great glory."

(when Jesus comes in Providential Judgement,
in the manifestation of the Romans upon the Jews,
at Jerusalem, A.D.70

...

Their Third question is, “when will" be..."the end of the age?”

Jesus answers that Third question in Matthew 35-51
WHEN JESUS SAYS,

35 "Heaven and earth will pass away,
but My words will never pass away.

"But of that Day and Hour, knoweth no man,
no, not the Angels of Heaven,
but My Father only."

ONCE YOU 'GET THAT',

YOU WILL KNOW WHAT GOD
WANTS YOU TO UNDERSTAND

ABOUT THE REST OF THE BIBLE
and "THE END TIMES".)
...

Fifth:

(5) Whenever one
is Interpreting a section of Scripture
in the synoptic gospels

(i.e. Matthew, Mark and Luke),

parallel accounts
should be carefully compared and analyzed.

Because, HISTORICALLY, Matthew
wrote to a predominately Jewish audience

while Mark and Luke
wrote to a predominately Gentile audience.

Therefore, if Matthew
uses a phrase from Old Testament History
or Poetical Prophetic Imagery

that would be obscure
or difficult for a Gentile audience,

the other gospels
should be checked for clarification.
...

Please, JOIN ME, with The HOLY SPIRIT,
as we begin our Investigation
into

WHAT DOES GOD WANT US TO UNDERSTAND?
IN THE BIBLE?:

First, we 'check' the other accounts
written by other Apostles, of The SAME EVENT:

(e.g., the Disciple's Question,

MATTHEW 24:3;

"And as He sat upon the Mount of Olives,
the Disciples came to Him privately,

saying, "Tell us, when will these things be?

And what will be the sign of Your Coming

and of The End of The World?"

MARK 13:4;

"Tell us, when will these things be?

And what will be the sign
when all these things will be Fulfilled?"

and

LUKE 21:7;

"And they asked Him, saying,
"Master, but when will these things be?

And what sign will there be
when these things will Come to Pass?"

...

And, again, regarding

The Abomination of Desolation,
we 'check' the other viewpoints on it,
written by another Inspired Author of the Bible.

MATTHEW 24:15;

"When you therefore will see

The Abomination of Desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the Prophet,

standing in the Holy Place
(whoso readeth, let him understand)",

we compared with;

LUKE 21:20;

"And when you will see Jerusalem
compassed with armies,

then know that
The Desolation thereof is near.... "

For anyone to 'look to see'
instead of "thinking" what they dream up as being

"The Abomination of Desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the Prophet",

it is "when you will see Jerusalem
compassed with armies,

then know that
The Desolation thereof is near.... "

We need to know this.

FROM GOD'S REVELATION to MANKIND,

THE ETERNAL WORD of GOD,
THE HOLY BIBLE.

Studying the Bible is Fun.

 

<never mind>

 

LOL, clearly you didn't read my exegesis of Ephesians 1 that Sliverhair required of me.
Clearly, you haven't read anything I have posted to you directly.
This assertion of yours is just pathetic laziness on your part. An admission that you refuse to actually read and understand God's word.

 

Because it is signified does not mean it has no meaning. Is that what you think the apocalyptic genre is all about?

 

Thank you for that AustinC. I sure could be guilty of laziness and failure to read closely enough. I promise to work on that some and try to improve. I sure am interested in God's word in context whether you believe that or not.

 

I am saying you are rejecting the counsel of Jesus Who sent and signified it.

Figurative usage, as another form of "Literature", is More Expressive of Truth than Literal "Letterism" (face value).

Jesus shall come, "as a thief in the night."

Signified means to look for the symbols and their meaning, not to assume they are automatically "Literal" and to "make something out of them" that way.

A Vision is a Vision. There are 7 Visions that makeup Revelation. It just so happens that they all cover the same period of time and take place simultaneously. To read Revelation straight through, chapter to chapter, leads to nothing but fleshly speculations and wild imaginary guesses.

Symbols, not Riddles: A Review of William Hendriksen’s “More Than Conquerors”