Please stop posting the exact same copy and paste, non germane verses over and over. Not one of your verses supports your bogus claim.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Visiting punishment for Sin upon children?
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Returning to topic:
Does God judge us by standards He has set for us, and not for Himself? Yes.
But is that what God has done saying we are not to kill children because of their father's sin? Nope.
How are the sins of the earthly father visited on his descendants down several generations?
Does my sinful behavior adversely affect my family? Of course. If I express an unbelief in God or in God's commands, what is the likely result in the thinking of my children. Are they likely to be open to God's word as those comprising "fields white for harvest?" Nope
So if I hate God, or show no submission to Him, and I pass this point of view down to my children, they too might hate God or be unwilling to submit to his commands. Clearly the affect of hating God is in view in Deuteronomy 5:9. God clearly allows the adverse impact of the father's sin to "visit upon" his descendants.
But is that the only mechanism God is teaching in Deuteronomy 5:9?
Deu 5:9
you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Does sin only poison the minds of directly related children, or might sin poison the minds of others coming of age, like a school teacher or seminary professor presenting falsehoods.? Does God allow that adverse impact upon children down several generations? Yes.
The Hebrew word translated "the fathers" can refer to a biological progenitor, but also has the meaning of a leader of a group.
Does God judge us by standards He has set for us, and not for Himself? Yes.
But is that what God has done saying we are not to kill children because of their father's sin? Nope.
How are the sins of the earthly father visited on his descendants down several generations?
Does my sinful behavior adversely affect my family? Of course. If I express an unbelief in God or in God's commands, what is the likely result in the thinking of my children. Are they likely to be open to God's word as those comprising "fields white for harvest?" Nope
So if I hate God, or show no submission to Him, and I pass this point of view down to my children, they too might hate God or be unwilling to submit to his commands. Clearly the affect of hating God is in view in Deuteronomy 5:9. God clearly allows the adverse impact of the father's sin to "visit upon" his descendants.
But is that the only mechanism God is teaching in Deuteronomy 5:9?
Deu 5:9
you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Does sin only poison the minds of directly related children, or might sin poison the minds of others coming of age, like a school teacher or seminary professor presenting falsehoods.? Does God allow that adverse impact upon children down several generations? Yes.
The Hebrew word translated "the fathers" can refer to a biological progenitor, but also has the meaning of a leader of a group.
...and
10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thy house, because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. 2 Sam 12
Yet another non specific deflection. All the unstudied posters on this forum make up false claims and taint so posts.
I addressed your copy and paste post in my post #3, which you then ignored. Next you have the unmitigated gall, the unabashed temerity to hurl insults at me.
To what passage are you referencing?
Take your pick:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me, Ex 20
7 keeping lovingkindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children`s children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation. Ex 34
18 Jehovah is slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; and that will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation. Nu 14
9 thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, Jehovah, thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me; Dt 5
Just as I thought, none of the references support the claim.
Exodus 20:5 means the same thing as Deuteronomy 5:9. Ditto for Exodus 34:7. Ditto Numbers 14:18. And the fourth reference is to Deuteronomy 5:9.
I saw no reference to visiting the sins of the fathers on the children of Israel for the evil they did to Joseph.
<sigh>
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 and also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 But thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 And in the fourth generation they shall come hither again; for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet full. Gen 15
If you're unable to believe that then go to Numbers 26 and count the generations for yourself.
Last edited:
37818
Well-Known Member
This is nothing but a defection.
It is your thread. You only want your answers. Ok.
LOL, the issue is not that God visits iniquity to the fourth Generation? The issue is you have been thus far unable to support your claim. Genesis 15:13-16 does not say God visited the sins of the fathers on the children of Israel for the evil they did to Joseph.
What answers? You did not and have not responded to Post #3. So instead you continue to make false claims about me.
Does scripture teach God is faithful to what He says He will do, thus keeping His promises? Yes Romans 3:4.
Does this verse say God does not judge us by standards for us and not for Him?
Bottom line, God is not bound to the commands He gives to humanity, as He is the potter and we are the clay. We operate in the purview He allows, He does not necessarily operate only in the same purview. If someone wrongs me, acting on my own, I am to turn the other cheek. If someone wrongs God, He can render punishment or mercy, at His choosing, as He does as He pleases.
The is basic Christianity 101.
We have advocated three doctrines widely accepted as biblical:
1) God is not bound by the standards He sets for Humanity.
2) God allows the consequences of one generation's sins to adversely impact following generations.
3) Visiting the sins of the fathers, is not limited to biological progenitors, but also of leaders in one generation teaching falsehoods such that the consequences adversely impacts following generations.
Now lets turn to the question, does God actively arrange circumstances such that the adverse consequences of one generation impact following generations due to the sins of the fathers?
I believe the answer is yes. But again, the punishment is not because they are guilty of the prior generations sins, but only the result of the consequences of those sins. In Hosea 8:7, God tells Israel they have sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind. Then in Hosea 8:13 God says He will visit their sins and they shall return to Egypt, obviously a God ordained, rather than allowed circumstance.
1) God is not bound by the standards He sets for Humanity.
2) God allows the consequences of one generation's sins to adversely impact following generations.
3) Visiting the sins of the fathers, is not limited to biological progenitors, but also of leaders in one generation teaching falsehoods such that the consequences adversely impacts following generations.
Now lets turn to the question, does God actively arrange circumstances such that the adverse consequences of one generation impact following generations due to the sins of the fathers?
I believe the answer is yes. But again, the punishment is not because they are guilty of the prior generations sins, but only the result of the consequences of those sins. In Hosea 8:7, God tells Israel they have sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind. Then in Hosea 8:13 God says He will visit their sins and they shall return to Egypt, obviously a God ordained, rather than allowed circumstance.
I know I accepted as true things I was taught in Sunday School. But we are to be mindful of Acts 17:11.
I am more concerned about truth, justice and respect for others. Acts 17:11 comes to mind.
We have advocated three doctrines widely accepted as biblical:
1) God is not bound by the standards He sets for Humanity.
2) God allows the consequences of one generation's sins to adversely impact following generations.
3) Visiting the sins of the fathers, is not limited to biological progenitors, but also of leaders in one generation teaching falsehoods such that the consequences adversely impacts following generations.
Now lets turn to the question, does God actively arrange circumstances such that the adverse consequences of one generation impact following generations due to the sins of the fathers?
I believe the answer is yes. But again, the punishment is not because they are guilty of the prior generations sins, but only the result of the consequences of those sins. In Hosea 8:7, God tells Israel they have sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind. Then in Hosea 8:13 God says He will visit their sins and they shall return to Egypt, obviously a God ordained, rather than allowed circumstance.
1) God is not bound by the standards He sets for Humanity.
2) God allows the consequences of one generation's sins to adversely impact following generations.
3) Visiting the sins of the fathers, is not limited to biological progenitors, but also of leaders in one generation teaching falsehoods such that the consequences adversely impacts following generations.
Now lets turn to the question, does God actively arrange circumstances such that the adverse consequences of one generation impact following generations due to the sins of the fathers?
I believe the answer is yes. But again, the punishment is not because they are guilty of the prior generations sins, but only the result of the consequences of those sins. In Hosea 8:7, God tells Israel they have sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind. Then in Hosea 8:13 God says He will visit their sins and they shall return to Egypt, obviously a God ordained, rather than allowed circumstance.