Choice never means Non-choice.

[Van]

"God hath endowed the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil."

Here we have a statement that challenges the validity of the doctrine of total spiritual inability. Thus each and every 5 point supporter of the TULIP will say the assertion is bogus or does not mean what it seems to say.

One of the verses cited to support the assertion is Deuteronomy 30:19 which says God sets before us the choice of life or death. This is contrary to the doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability, which says we will only choose death.

Now this choice was set before us after the Fall, and therefore our being predisposed to sin did not preclude the possibility of choosing life. Therefore the actual biblical doctrine should be “Limited Spiritual Ability” of the unregenerate lost. The lost have the spiritual ability to grasp spiritual milk, but not spiritual solid food (meat).

Humanity has three enemies, Satan, the World –with its corrupt values, and our fleshly desires. All three at one time or another set before us choices where we usually choose sin. But, according to James 1:14 we are tempted, not compelled, and therefore have some ability to choose not to sin.

But even if we do sometimes choose according to God’s will, this does not result in “good works” for all our works of righteousness prior to salvation are as filthy rags. Nothing we do earns or merits our salvation by grace alone!

 

[Dave G]

"God hath endowed the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil."

Respectfully, I'm unable to find that in God's word, sir.
Rather, I see that we as believers are to trust what He alone tells us:

" Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil." ( Proverbs 3:5-7 ).

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." ( John 17:17 ).

But, according to James 1:14 we are tempted, not compelled, and therefore have some ability to choose not to sin.

That's not what the Lord has to say on the matter, Van, this is:

" What then? are we better [than they?] No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
14 whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
15 their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
16 destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
17 and the way of peace have they not known:
18 there is no fear of God before their eyes." ( Romans 3:9-18 ).

" This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. " ( Ephesians 4:17-19 ).

My hope is that you will review what, as an example, the Psalms have to say about how we've treated Him, on the whole and as a race.

Good evening to you.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The quotation in the O.P. is from Chapter 9 of the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith.
It may be helpful if people read the whole of the chapter to understand what it is teaching.
www.1689londonbaptistconfession.com/9

 

[Salty]

Choosing not to choose is a choice.

 

[Alan Gross]

The quotation in the O.P. is from Chapter 9 of the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith.
It may be helpful if people read the whole of the chapter to understand what it is teaching.
www.1689londonbaptistconfession.com/9

Thank you, Martin Marprelate. Very nice. This is not how Vanolgy functions, but very nice information.

While Van goes immediately into making up his own version of the Fall of Adam, saying men have 'a choice';

After quoting, "God hath endowed the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice...",

he makes the statement:

"Now this choice was set before us after the Fall, and therefore our being predisposed to sin did not preclude the possibility of choosing life."

[QUOTE="Van, post: 2837530, member: 10696"]Now this choice was set before us after the Fall, and therefore our being predisposed to sin did not preclude the possibility of choosing life. Therefore the actual biblical doctrine should be “Limited Spiritual Ability” of the unregenerate lost. The lost have the spiritual ability to grasp spiritual milk, but not spiritual solid food (meat).[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, for this latest daring escapade into Vanology,

Point 3. from Chapter 9 of the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, just under Point 1 that Van quoted at:
www.1689londonbaptistconfession.com/9 says:

"3. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; 4

"so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin,5

"is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto 6

4. Romans 5:6, 8:7

5. Ephesians 2:1,

6.Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44

GOOD GOD, VAN.

 

[Van]

SNIP

[QUOTE="Van, post: 2837530, member: 10696"]Now this choice was set before us after the Fall, and therefore our being predisposed to sin did not preclude the possibility of choosing life. Therefore the actual biblical doctrine should be “Limited Spiritual Ability” of the unregenerate lost. The lost have the spiritual ability to grasp spiritual milk, but not spiritual solid food (meat).

SNIP
The natural man is not able to convert himself. SNIP
[/QUOTE]

Here liberty is redefined to mean not free to choose life, which is gibberish. Liberty means free from both external compulsion and internal compulsion.

 

[Van]

Respectfully, I'm unable to find that in God's word, sir.
Snip [No one said the statement was from God's Word, Sir!!!]
SNIP
Good evening to you.

Yes, we are to trust in what the Word of God says.

Deuteronomy 30:19 says God sets before us the choice of life or death. This is contrary to the doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability, which says the lost can only choose death.

Now this choice was set before the lost after the Fall, and therefore our being predisposed to sin did not preclude the possibility of choosing life. Therefore the actual biblical doctrine should be “Limited Spiritual Ability” of the unregenerate lost. The lost have the spiritual ability to grasp spiritual milk, but not spiritual solid food (meat).

Humanity has three enemies, Satan, the World –with its corrupt values, and our fleshly desires. All three at one time or another set before us choices where we usually choose sin. But, according to James 1:14 we are tempted, not compelled, and therefore have some ability to choose not to sin.

 

[Alan Gross]

Here liberty is redefined to mean not free to choose life,

Here and in the remaining portion of the place you quoted the portion of it about "Liberty".

Liberty means free from both external compulsion and internal compulsion.

You have probably heard before that the devil deals in " half-truths".

I can't be referenced as an authority for recommending someone use "half-truths", in forming conclusions about what they are going to say they believe.

I would be playing into Satan's hands if I did.

 

[Van]

You have probably heard before that the devil deals in " half-truths".

I can't be referenced as an authority for recommending someone use "half-truths", in forming conclusions about what they are going to say they believe.

I would be playing into Satan's hands if I did.

Here is a half witted attempt to deny Liberty means to be free to choose life or death, not life only for some and death only for the rest.

All they have is misrepresentation, innuendo and copious quantities of non-germane verbiage.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Choosing not to choose is a choice.

Making the choice to not make a choice is making a choice. Well, duh…except for the self-contradiction. One cannot make a choice to not make a choice.

But given an inability to choose life, leaving only death, is not making a choice. It is not choosing not to choose, or anything like it. It is closer to being a Ford in any color you want, as long as it’s black. It is not choosing at all.

 

[Salty]

Lets see -
YOU "do you want strawbery ice cream or chocolate
ME "I dont know
YOU Then you dont get either

So I have chosen not to choose

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Lets see -
YOU "do you want strawbery ice cream or chocolate
ME "I dont know
YOU Then you dont get either

So I have chosen not to choose

Not at all analogous. The context is choosing A or not A. One cannot choose neither.

Now, if the suggestion is that there is something being offered besides life and death (not life), then the example might hold.

But “I don’t know” is not a choice. “Then you don’t get either” is a choice being made for you. Still, it is irrelevant without that third option, and there is none in this thread. So far. So, at best it would be for another thread. (“Change my mind.” )

 

[Alan Gross]

Here is a half witted attempt to deny deny Liberty means to be free to choose life or death, not life only for some and death only for the rest.

All they have is misrepresentation, innuendo and copious quantities of non-germane verbiage.

You have probably heard before that the devil deals in " half-truths".

There is a half-truth concerning the Bible referencing the word, "chose".

The word "chose" is used, by God, with reference, "to choose life or death".

Half of the half-truth is that lost individuals have Sole Liberty with which to choose life or death.

The other half of the half-truth is that this Bible verse states that a lost individual has the Sole Liberty with which to choose "salvation" or "not salvation".

Repent and believe the Gospel is commanded in the Bible.

"Choose to have salvation" is not.

Altering the Word of God is REQUIRED to make this half-truth, so why not look at the verse and then the statement and see that for what it is?

Satan began altering God's Words in The Garden of Eden.

I can't be referenced as an authority for recommending someone use "half-truths", in forming conclusions about what they are going to say they believe.

I would be playing into Satan's hands if I did.

 

[Salty]

Not at all analogous. The context is choosing A or not A. One cannot choose neither.

Now, if the suggestion is that there is something being offered besides life and death (not life), then the example might hold.

But “I don’t know” is not a choice. “Then you don’t get either” is a choice being made for you. Still, it is irrelevant without that third option, and there is none in this thread. So far. So, at best it would be for another thread. (“Change my mind.” )

I guess we will have to agree to disagree

 

[Van]

Liberty means to be free to choose life or death, not life only for some and death only for the rest.

Did anyone say our choice to believe to a degree in the gospel automatically results in salvation? Nope, the second and third soils of Matthew 13 believed to a degree but they were not saved!!

All they have is misrepresentation, innuendo and copious quantities of non-germane verbiage.