Between Two Thieves

[Van]

Two fallacies are commonly found around the cross of Christ, on the one hand, Easy Believism and the claim it is easy to find the narrow way that leads to life, and on the other hand, Impossible Believism and the claim the lost cannot find the narrow way that leads to life.

Both are unbiblical false doctrines and should be discarded based on a study of God's word.

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[Van]

Easy Believism says we need not walk the talk, or have a heart-felt deep commitment to make Christ the Lord of our life.
Impossible Believism says we are unable to receive the gospel, but Matthew 13 says some not only receive it but bear fruit!

 

[37818]

Matthew 11:30, ". . . For my yoke is easy, . . ."

 

[Van]

A very poor translation of Matthew 11:30 reads, for My yoke is easy, but the actual idea is "My yoke is beneficial." Striving to follow Christ is hard work, striving to be an effective witness for Christ is hard work, bible study is hard work.

 

[Van]

Matthew11:30
“For My yoke is beneficial, and My burden is light.”

Luke 5:39
“And no one, after drinking old wine wants new; for he says, ‘The old is suitable.

Luke 6:35
“But love your enemies and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is beneficial to ungrateful and evil people.

Romans 2:4
Or do you have contempt for the wealth of his kindness, forbearance, and patience, and yet do not know that God's beneficence leads you to repentance?

1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts beneficial morals.”

Ephesians 4:32
Be befeficial to one another, compassionate, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

1 Peter 2:3
if you have experienced the Lord's beneficence.

The above 7 verses clearly demonstrate the Greek word does not mean anything like or close to easy, but instead always is used to indicate something is suitably beneficial or beneficially suitable.

 

[Alan Gross]

Easy Believism and the claim it is easy to find the narrow way that leads to life

Easy Believism says we need not walk the talk, or have a heart-felt deep commitment to make Christ the Lord of our life.

but Matthew 13 says some not only receive it but bear fruit!

I was wondering. Is there anyone, anywhere that you know of that is a proponent of the way of 'salvation' you talk about having?

God credits our faith with Righteousness or something like that?

How do you reconcile that in your heart and mind with "the state gate"?

You do realize that there is one way of salvation and it is: "The gate is strait"; small and little, and so unobserved:

"There is but one way to heaven, and the generality of men neglect it."

Could you throw a little "grace" in there, in your scheme of salvation?

And I always wondered what happened to you filthy rags sin(?)

And why there is no mention of Jesus and the Gospel Message of His death, burial, and resurrection, as a Substitutionary Sacrifice for the sins of His people(?)

Ephesians 2:8
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Impossible Believism and the claim the lost cannot find the narrow way that leads to life.

Impossible Believism says we are unable to receive the gospel

I populated your post because it seemed lonely and because you think there is such a thing as, "Impossible Believism and the claim the lost cannot find the narrow way that leads to life."

"By the "strait gate" is meant Christ himself; who elsewhere calls himself "the door", ( John 10:7-9 ) ...faith is not the gate itself, but the grace, by which men enter in at the right door,

Lost souls are able to receive the gospel, by Grace,

Ephesians 2:8
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Acts 15:11
On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

Romans 3:24
and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16
So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 1:19
And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Matthew 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 3:14-18,36
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: …

from: What Is God's Grace (7 powerful truths you need to know)

1. God’s Grace Is Forgiveness
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Romans 3:23-24

This is probably what we think about most when we think of God’s grace. It’s forgiveness from our sins. The gift of salvation.

The Bible teaches us that grace is a gift of God. Our mistakes, our sin, condemn us and separate us from God. But God doesn’t leave us to the deal with the consequences of our sin. On the cross Jesus Christ displayed his great love for us by taking on what we deserved.

The grace of God gives us what we need instead of what we deserve. In our time of need God provides us with divine assistance. The act of grace is not what we deserve, but it’s what we are in desperate need of.

What is God’s grace? It allows us to live in freedom from our sin and enter back into a relationship with God.

2. God’s Grace Is Undeserved (but he gives it anyway)
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time. 2 Timothy 1:9

The beauty of God’s grace can only be fully understood when we realize how fallen, broken, and undeserving we are.

Simply put, we do not deserve grace. We deserve death. But again, God gives us what we need instead of what we deserve. We cannot do anything to earn it. The result of works will never earn God’s grace.

I think it’s important that we recognize this. I often find Christians feel entitled to grace. Like it was God’s pleasure to die for them. Jesus didn’t go to the cross because we are worthy, but because he is good.

We have done, and can do, nothing to earn God’s grace. Our own effort and good behavior will always fall short. The Bible makes clear that the results of works on our own amounts to nothing. It’s by the grace of God alone that we are saved.

3. God’s Grace Is New Everyday
The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. Psalm 103:8

I don’t know about you, but I can’t go too long without making a mistake. I can’t seem to kick the habit of sinning. I’m in constant need of God’s grace. And thankful his grace is with me every morning when I wake up.

All our past sins, present sins, and future sins are covered when we put our faith in Jesus. That should not be an invitation to keep sinning. Rather a way out of the cycle of sinning. God’s grace is new every day and that allows us to be transformed into his image.

By the grace of God I’m not who I once was, but I’m not fully there yet. I’m in process. I’m being transformed. God’s grace allows me to continue in this transformation process. When I screw up again today I will wake up to new grace tomorrow.

Whatever you have done, are doing, or will do, God’s grace is new every day. Not so you can keep on sinning. But so you can once again step into freedom.

con't

 

[Alan Gross]

What is God’s grace? It’s new every day.

4. God’s Grace Adopts Us Into His Family
See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. 1 John 3:1-3

Throughout the Bible you see God call his followers his children. Apostle Paul says we were adopted into God’s family (Romans 8:15). God has shown his incredible love for us by bringing us into his family.

Think of the implications of that. To be a child of God. The one who is all-powerful, all-knowing, and ever-present is your father.

If we can keep our focus on this, how we live our lives would change. God cares about us and is guiding us. We need not worry. We are his children and he loves us.

What is God’s grace meaning? It means we are God’s children. Heirs to the throne.

5. God’s Grace Brings Us Closer To Our Father
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

Many view God’s grace as a get-out-of-hell-free card or access to eternal life. But that misses the point. God’s desire isn’t to just spare you from pain. It’s to reunite you with him. He wants the relationship that sin severed to be restored.

The forgiveness of sins allows this to happen. It doesn’t just save us from hell, it reunites us with our heavenly father.

Grace allows us to come back. Sin cast us away. It created a chasm that kept us apart. Grace is the bridge that allows us to come back to the other side. It mends the wounds that sin caused. It forgives the mistakes that we made.


What is God’s grace meaning? Grace brings us back to the father.

6. God’s Grace Allows Us To Live In Freedom
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14

We think freedom is doing whatever we want to do when we want to do it. That might appear to be freedom. But that kind of life doesn’t set you free, it enslaves you. Grace frees us and allows us to live as God intended.

When people look at the “rules” God gives his children many scoff. Any good parent gives their children rules. Not to hamper their fun or restrain their freedom. But to keep them safe and allow them to fully experience life.

Guardrails on the side of the road are there to protect you from the dangers of careening off the road. The holy spirit gives us guardrails to keep us on the path of freedom. Freedom isn’t the ability to do whatever you want. Freedom is living as God designed.

What is God’s grace meaning? It means that we can live free from the shackles of sin.

7. God’s Grace Is Open
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. Titus 2:11

Followers of Jesus are often stingy with grace. But God is not, he gives it to anyone and everyone that wants it. That’s why songs like Amazing Grace exist because it extends to even the worst of sinners.

Every single human being on this planet ... has the offer of grace extended to them. All they have to do is accept it.

Sadly this message is lost on the world because the church is much more selective with grace than Jesus was. Only those “deserving” should receive grace. The problem is not one person is deserving of what Christ Jesus did. Not one. We are all terribly broken and in need of grace.

Therefore, we should show grace generously because we’ve been given grace generously.

What is God’s grace meaning? I

How To Receive God’s Grace
Hopefully, now you have a deeper understanding of God’s grace meaning for your life. I want to end by looking at how we receive God's grace.

Turn Away

When we accept God’s grace it means we have to turn away from the things our life used to be about. Why? Because you can’t go in two directions at the same time. Grace gives us a new life, therefore we have to leave the old behind.

Another word for this is repent. It often gets a bad rap, but that’s because we don’t really understand what it means. To repent means to rethink your life in light of what Jesus has done. To turn from our worldly passions and return to God. It means to accept that you are sinful but dearly loved. It means to accept God’s invitation to live in a better way.

In order to step into the abundant life God has for us we have to leave behind our old life. We have to turn away so that we can turn toward God.
...

“Enter through the narrow gate;

"By the "strait gate" is meant Christ himself; who elsewhere calls himself "the door", ( John 10:7-9 )...This is called "strait"; because faith in Christ, a profession of it, and a life and conversation agreeable to it, are attended with many afflictions, temptations, reproaches, and persecutions. "Entering" in at it is by faith, and making a profession of it: hence it follows, that faith is not the gate itself, but the grace, by which men enter in at the right door, and walk on in Christ, as they begin with him."

for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction,

"so that the one may be easily known from the other. There is no difficulty in finding out, or entering in at, or walking in the way of sin, which leads to eternal ruin. The gate of carnal lusts, and worldly pleasures, stands wide open,"

and there are many who enter through it.

"even all men in a state of nature; the way of the ungodly is "broad", smooth, easy, and every way agreeable to the flesh; it takes in a large compass of vices, and has in it abundance of company; but its end is destruction."

“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

"And so, difficult to enter in at; and when entered, the way is unpleasant to the flesh to walk in, being hedged up on each side with afflictions and tribulations; and moreover, is like the "narrow place", or (stenov topov) , "the strait place", as the Septuagint in ( Numbers 22:26 )"

"that leads to life "...unto eternal life: it certainly leads thither; it never fails of bringing persons to it; believers in Christ, all that walk in Christ the way, though they are said to be "scarcely" saved, by reason of their afflictions and trials, they meet with in their way to the kingdom; yet they are, and shall be certainly saved: they shall be safely brought to glory; which will be an abundant recompense for all the troubles and sorrows that have attended them in their journey."

"And few there be that find it;"
the way, and so consequently the life it leads to. "The gate is strait"; small and little, and so unobserved: there is but one way to heaven, and the generality of men neglect it. "The way is narrow", and so disagreeable; the company few, and not engaging. Men choose large gates, broad ways, and much company. The flesh loves to walk at liberty, unconfined, and uncontrolled, and with a multitude to do evil:"

 

[Van]

Once again we have two very long posts (6 and 7) calculated to add length to the thread to hasten its closure.

Once again, here is the topic:
Two fallacies are commonly found around the cross of Christ, on the one hand, Easy Believism and the claim it is easy to find the narrow way that leads to life, and on the other hand, Impossible Believism and the claim the lost cannot find the narrow way that leads to life.

Both are unbiblical false doctrines and should be discarded based on a study of God's word.

Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Easy Believism says we need not walk the talk, or have a heart-felt deep commitment to make Christ the Lord of our life.
Impossible Believism says we are unable to receive the gospel, but Matthew 13 says some not only receive it but bear fruit!

Was anything said in posts 6 and 7 that addressed the fallacies of Easy Believism or Impossible Believism? Nope.

Why the use of the overly long and non-germane posts to disrupt discussion. The poster advocates "impossible believism."
The fact that a few people "find" the narrow path that leads to life destroys the claim of impossible believism.

 

[Alan Gross]

Matthew 13 says some not only receive it but bear fruit!

We're all ears(!)

Where is it that you think that is jumping out of there at you?

The poster advocates "impossible believism.

" with man it is impossible"

I thought you acted like you tried to believe the Bible(?)

That's Bible.

26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26.

And described in your source:

"3. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; 4

so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, 5

is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto. 6

4. Romans 5:6, 8:75.

5. Ephesians 2:1,

6. Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44

You could have quoted that, yourself.

Why didn't you?

 

[Van]

We're all ears(!)

Where is it that you think that is jumping out of there at you?

" with man it is impossible"

Folks, recall how often posters pushing false doctrine claim their opponents have taken something out of context? Here Jesus is teaching salvation is impossible for humans, but God can save whomever He chooses!

If you recall Matthew 13, three of the four soils understood and affirmatively responded to the gospel. Thus once again demonstrating the lost can understand and affirmatively respond to SOME spiritual things, but not all spiritual things. That is why Paul spoke using spiritual milk as to men of flesh!

So by the numbers:
1) The claim that the lost are unable at all times to seek God is false doctrine.
2) The claim that the lost are unable to understand some spiritual things is false doctrine.
3) The claim God taught that it is impossible to believe God and His Christ is false doctrine.

In summary:
John 6:28-29 (NET)
So then they said to him, "What must we do to accomplish the deeds God requires?"
Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires - to believe in the one whom he sent."

It is not easy, but it is not impossible!!!

 

[Alan Gross]

If you recall Matthew 13, three of the four soils understood and affirmatively responded to the gospel.

Not of lost souls "responding to the Gospel", but a temporary influence of the Holy Spirit on them influenceing or "enlightening" them to an extent, to the existence of "things related to God", etc., which was later shown to not be a saving Grace Influence, but only temporary influence or "enlightenment" that only resulted in their condemnation.

Divines call this "common (non-effectial in salvation) Grace".

From: The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit, by Ron Crisp.

- The Work of the Holy Spirit in Common Grace – Part II

"C. In Matthew 13:1-24, we have both the parable of the sower and Christ's inspired exposition of the same.

"This parable taught the disciples what to expect in their preaching ministries and has often given light to preachers since that time.

"Perhaps the most But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(superficially influenced in their carnal fleshly mind and conscience) and profess Christ whose lives later would prove them to be Christless. (This is a typical "decision card"- type of a nominal Easy Believism, "repeat after me " prayers for salvation", etc., without Regeneration and Without God, in a FALSE PROFESSION OF "FAITH". This is so serious as to be ETERNALLY FATAL to the lost souls that remain lost, after only being "influenced" by something of genuine religion they have been exposed to).

"While man by nature hates God, (exclusively) yet some because of the Spirit's influence receive His Word with joy (v. 20), but the change is not lasting.

"True faith is victorious, but temporary faith can be overcome

by trials (v. 21),

temptations (v. 22),

and heresies (II Timothy 2: 1.8).

"The parable of the sower is everywhere illustrated in gospel-preaching churches today.

D. In II Peter 2:20-22, we have another case of those who are influenced by the gospel, yet later reveal their unregenerate state.

The author has often found it helpful to compare this Scripture with II Peter, 1:3-4 to bring out the difference between common and saving grace.

1. Let us first notice the characteristics of those in II Peter 2:20-22 who experienced only a temporary change.

a. They escaped for a while certain of the more gross sins. (v. 20).

b. They received a degree of enlightenment (v. 20).

This reminds us of Balaam who received such a view of divine things as to cause him to say, "Let me die the death of the righteous" (Numbers 23: 10)

"yet he died without Christ.

"c. They fell away (verses 20-22). Peter compares them to hogs and dogs who have been cleaned up for awhile, but eventually their true natures are revealed as they return to their old habits."

Thus once again demonstrating the lost can understand and affirmatively respond to SOME spiritual things, but not all spiritual things.

The lost can be influenced by the Spirit of God which only makes them more guilty, although they are condemned already.

That is why Paul spoke using spiritual milk as to men of flesh

Paul spoke to the saved brethren who were simply carnal, as he said.

Lost people can not hear or discern Spiritual things, milk or otherwise.

You should know this by now, Van, in your handling of the sincere milk of the Word.

So by the numbers:

1) The claim that the lost are unable at all times to seek God is false doctrine.

2) The claim that the lost are unable to understand some spiritual things is false doctrine.

3) The claim God taught that it is impossible to believe God and His Christ is false doctrine.

Biblically speaking, alone, without the obligatory additions and deletions, in the event someone was influenced in attempting to create a "meaning" opposite and opposed to God's Words revealed to us:

1). the lost are unable at all times to seek God,

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Romans 3:11

2). the lost are unable to understand some spiritual things,

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned".
I Corinthians 2:4.

So, we know from the Parable of the Sower that the "Word" they "gladly received with joy", was Not a 'Spiritually Empowered" Word.

3). God taught that it is impossible to believe God and His Christ.

26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26

 

[Van]

LOL, yet another overly long copy and paste post of non-germane nonsense.

Did anyone say all lost souls respond to the gospel? Nope
Does Reformed Theology falsely claim no lost soul is able to respond to the gospel because they are spiritually dead? Yes
Note how now the doctrine of being unable to understand the gospel has morphed into able to temporarily respond while dead in sins. I kid you not, they say whatever supports their fiction.

Did anyone say the lost are able to seek God at all times? Nope. Why the claim? Because it could mean that someone claimed the lost seek God all the time, which is absolutely false. Or it could mean the lost are able to seek God some of the time, which is true for soils #2, 3 and 4.
Did the poster say why Paul spoke using spiritual milk as to men of flesh? Nope

Here is the false scripture of Reformed Theology:
1) "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God at any time." Romans 3:11
2) "But the natural man receiveth not all the things of the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:14
3) "When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can seek God?” Matthew 19:25

Ask yourselves, when soil #2 received the gospel with joy, was the person receiving "the things" of the Spirit of God? The answer of course is YES!!

 

[Alan Gross]

LOL, yet another overly long copy and paste post of non-germane nonsense.

Studying:

The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit perturbs you, Van?

Something about it seems to have not gone down right.

Reformed Theology

I am not a proponent of "Reformed Theology", or "Vanology", for that matter.

the doctrine of being unable to understand the gospel has morphed into able to temporarily respond while dead in sins.

No morph from me.

The BIBLE says, No Way can a lost soul receive The Word of God, Spiritually, in the sense of their having any ability to "understand the gospel".

The BIBLE says, No Way can a lost soul receive

"the things of the Spirit of God:...
because they are spiritually discerned." I Corinthians 2:14.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
(superficially influenced in their carnal fleshly mind and conscience) and profess Christ whose lives later would prove them to be Christless.

The lost soul can only receive the word with joy IN THEIR CARNAL MENTAL THINKING BRAIN, without a Work of The Spirit of God in their heart and soul.

(

This is a typical "decision card"-type of a nominal Easy Believism, "repeat after me " prayers for salvation", etc., without Regeneration and Without God, in a FALSE PROFESSION OF "FAITH".

Nothing about being "able to temporarily "respond" while dead in sins".

Luke 8:13; "They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

As in, "They on the rock are they, which, when they hear,
receive the word with joy" (where?, in their heart?
no, only in their head, with 'head knowledge, obviously);

"and these have no root",
with NO Work of The Spirit of God in their heart and soul.

which for a while believed,"
(where?, in their heart? no, only in their head, with 'head knowledge, obviously)

Why are these instances of "only receiving head knowledge" obvious?

Because "in time of temptation fall away."

So, we know from the Parable of the Sower that the "Word" they "gladly received with joy", was Not a 'Spiritually Empowered" Word.

Only a superficial mental "Head knowledge".

Nothing about lost souls "responding to the Gospel",

but a temporary influence of the Holy Spirit on them
influencing or "enlightening" them

only to an extent, to the existence of "things related to God", etc.,

which was later shown to not be a saving Grace Influence,

with this temporary influence or "enlightenment"
only resulting in their further condemnation.

Divines call this "common (non-effectual in salvation, Non-Spiritual) Grace".

and again it is only "a temporary influence of the Holy Spirit on them
influencing or "enlightening" them
to an extent, to the existence of "things related to God"...

"things related to God" are them seeing Christian people being happy, victorious, worshipping, etc, bible preaching or reading, people praying, witnessing, etc., with their eyes in the head, only.

NOTHING to do with a true Spiritual
influence of the Holy Spirit on them
influencing or "enlightening",

which was later shown to not be
a saving Grace Spiritual Influence,
of any kind.

This is so serious as to be ETERNALLY FATAL to the lost souls that remain lost, after only being "influenced" by something of genuine religion they have been exposed to).

D. In II Peter 2:20-22, we have another case of those who are influenced by the gospel, yet later reveal their unregenerate state.

NOTHING to do with a true Spiritual
influence of the Holy Spirit on them;

b. They received a degree of enlightenment (v. 20).

This reminds us of Balaam who received such a view of divine things as to cause him to say, "Let me die the death of the righteous" (Numbers 23: 10)

...yet he died without Christ.

This, again, is only Head knowledge they "received" mentally, not Spiritually.

NOTHING to do with a true Spiritual
influence of the Holy Spirit on them.

The lost can be influenced by the Spirit of God which only makes them more guilty, although they are condemned already.

...

Or it could mean the lost are able to seek God

some of the time, which is true for soils #2, 3 and 4.

Not according to Point 3, of the same
1689 London Baptist Confession Statement of Faith
you partially quoted, previously.

So, your habitually taking away from the 1689 London Baptist Confession and/or adding to the scripture is not true,
according to you.

"3. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; 4

"so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, 5

"is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto. 6

4. Romans 5:6, 8:75.

5. Ephesians 2:1,

6. Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44
...

 

[Alan Gross]

Did the poster say why Paul spoke using spiritual milk as to men of flesh? Nope

Yep.

Paul spoke to the saved brethren who were simply carnal, as he said.

Lost people can not hear or discern Spiritual things, milk or otherwise.

You should know this by now, Van, in your handling of the sincere milk of the Word.

I Corinthians 3:1; "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 "I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 "For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"

These "brethren" (vs 1) "walked as" carnal "men" (vs 3),
in their outward behavior, but were still saved "babes in Christ" (vs 1).


The Bible teaches that it is saved people who
"desire the sincere milk of the word."

I Peter 2:2 "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 "If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious."

1 Peter 1:23; "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever."

...

1) "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God at any time." Romans 3:11

Amen, Van. Way to add something true this time!

2) "But the natural man receiveth not all the things of the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Amen, Van. And another true add! You're on a ROLL!

3) "When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can seek God?” Matthew 19:25

Amen, Van. A little touch of your habitual changing of the scripture this time, but O.K.! Amen!

The Bible, before your additions and deletions to it, says,

10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

...

Maybe, this would be a good time for you to step up
and explain your testimony of salvation.

Are you trying to be the only one that goes to Heaven?

Wouldn't you hate to go without us all that believe another way?

This is your quote:

"How many times have I said God elects for salvation individuals during their lifetime based on crediting their filthy rag faith as righteousness."

↑
....having the filthy rag faith of the lost credited as righteousness?


So, they are just "credited" with Eternal Salvation?


...for having "filthy rags faith"?

Explain what you mean about that word "faith"(??) if you would.

↑
"...credited their faith" as righteousness


Or then, what do you mean by "righteousness"?

And you have never dwelt with your sin(?), or yes?
Where is that at in your Plan of Salvation?

How about The Gospel of Jesus Christ? Did you need to make any room for His death, burial, and resurrection in there?

What's up?

I need to find out what you mean by all this, so I can wrap my brain around God then after all that above Elects that individual.

And the question would be something like why would He?

After all that "crediting their filthy rag faith as righteousness",
"God elects for salvation individuals during their lifetime"(?)

 

[JD731]

If one desires to know about New Testament salvation that was provided to the whole world through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, he needs to go to the New Testament to find it out. This sermon on the mount, Matt 5-7, was a national sermon, addressed only to Israel. One can find spiritual truths in it that may apply to the world but he would also find things said that could not. Discernment is key.

It is noteworthy that not a single person who followed Jesus, like his disciples, believed in him when he went to the cross. None of them went to where he was entombed to watch him rise from the dead like he told them he would. They did not even believe someone who saw him after he was risen.

It seems rather silly to me to make such an argument as easy believism and hard believism and moderate believism of the Christian by spring boarding off a passage that in no way addresses our salvation. The truths that Jesus Christ is preaching in Matt 1-12 is in a "gospel of the kingdom" context, a preparatory message to the gospel of salvation message.

Another noteworthy truth to consider is the fact that the Jews did not enter in to the kingdom, and rejected it and eventually killing the King, with the response of God establishing the kingdom in a mystery form, outlined in 7 parables, beginning to end, in Matt 13. This is the kingdom we are in and the gospel of the earthly and visible kingdom of Jesus Christ awaits fulfillment until this kingdom is completed with the return of the King after the rejecters are killed.

The following is a prophesy; It does not teach the absolute sovereignty of God. It teaches a stewardship of men over God's affairs for which they are accountable. There is a plan.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

 

[37818]

This sermon on the mount, Matt 5-7, was a national sermon, addressed only to Israel.

You fail to correctly understand. Do you hear the concept? ". . . to the Jew first, and also to the non-Jew."

 

[Van]

Once again a certain poster is allowed to post overly long, copy and paste posts to disrupt actual discussion of biblical doctrine.

All that was actually said was "taint so."

Now lets turn to Luke 19:11-27, and the parable of talent usage.

The Lord does not bestow resources evenly but does expect each to utilize what he or she has been given such that profit accrues to the Lord. And if we are given little, if we do not utilize it, even that will be taken away. Recall the first soil of Matthew 13, and how through the practice of sin, the sinner hardened his or her heart such that even the limited spiritual ability he or she had was lost. And of course, if some reject not just believing in the Lord, but also reject serving (i.e. Easy Believism) they were never saved, but end up being slayed.

 

[Van]

1 Corinthians 3:1 (NET)
So, brothers and sisters, I could not speak to you as spiritual people, but instead as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.

Obviously infants in Christ and people of the flesh (unregenerate) must be spoke to using spiritual milk. Why is this fact so hard for the "taint so" folks to grasp?

Because they must nullify verse after verse that teach their bogus man-made doctrine is errant nonsense.

What are "the things of the Spirit" that people of flesh cannot understand? Spiritual meat, solid food!
What are "the things of the Spirit" that people of the flesh can understand? Spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.
That is why Paul talked to infants in Christ as he would people of the flesh, because both are able to grasp spiritual milk.

 

[JD731]

You fail to correctly understand. Do you hear the concept? ". . . to the Jew first, and also to the non-Jew."

The first verse in my quote was Lk 19:10, the key and central verse in the gospel of Luke. It says the following.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

What was lost? Do we have any other commentary of what was lost?

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Anyone who has ability to believe John 3:16 should have the ability to believe Mt 15:24

Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

(do some kingdom miracles to prove your message is from heaven)

(the household rules of the present house will be exempt when it comes to sickness and devils and lepers)

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

What about the gentiles in this house?

Joh 12 20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:

(this is spoken about the gentiles in what is referred to as "passion week" the last week of the ministry of Jesus on earth)

21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

So Jesus came in his earthly ministry to his covenant people of God to establish his kingdom by fulfilling all the previous prophesies concerning himself. His kingdom would be established over Israel and he will sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem. However, the Jews rejected his claims as messiah, except for a remnant. The kicker is that everyone who enters his kingdom must be born again. Remember John 3:5 and 7? This necessitated that he delay his kingdom until the time when all, everyone of them would accept him. It is the only way for a righteous kingdom. The citizens must be righteous because they want to be. This kingdom would be worldwide when it is established and the head over all other kingdoms of the earth.

The mystery form of the kingdom would never have been made known had Israel repented and received their King and savior Jesus Christ when he came. The gentiles would have put him to death instead of the Jews because Jesus Christ must die for humanity before he can save them. Our history would have been much different had Israel believed. They would have evangelized the nations and the blessing of Abraham upon the nations would have still been known.

The gentile church doctrines are a series of mysteries that have no spoken prophesies in the OT for this reason. The mystery form of the kingdom is explained as having Jews and gentiles in it. Tares and wheat. Good fishes and bad fishes. Loyalty and deceit. In Ga 1:4 Paul calls this a "present evil age." All the bad will be bundled and delivered to the fires of the great tribulation and to hell at the end of this age, which we are entering into now.

Follow the logic of the scriptures. God makes perfect sense.

 

[37818]

The first verse in my quote was Lk 19:10, the key and central verse in the gospel of Luke. It says the following.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

What was lost? Do we have any other commentary of what was lost?

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Anyone who has ability to believe John 3:16 should have the ability to believe Mt 15:24

Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

(do some kingdom miracles to prove your message is from heaven)

(the household rules of the present house will be exempt when it comes to sickness and devils and lepers)

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

What about the gentiles in this house?

Joh 12 20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:

(this is spoken about the gentiles in what is referred to as "passion week" the last week of the ministry of Jesus on earth)

21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

So Jesus came in his earthly ministry to his covenant people of God to establish his kingdom by fulfilling all the previous prophesies concerning himself. His kingdom would be established over Israel and he will sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem. However, the Jews rejected his claims as messiah, except for a remnant. The kicker is that everyone who enters his kingdom must be born again. Remember John 3:5 and 7? This necessitated that he delay his kingdom until the time when all, everyone of them would accept him. It is the only way for a righteous kingdom. The citizens must be righteous because they want to be. This kingdom would be worldwide when it is established and the head over all other kingdoms of the earth.

The mystery form of the kingdom would never have been made known had Israel repented and received their King and savior Jesus Christ when he came. The gentiles would have put him to death instead of the Jews because Jesus Christ must die for humanity before he can save them. Our history would have been much different had Israel believed. They would have evangelized the nations and the blessing of Abraham upon the nations would have still been known.

The gentile church doctrines are a series of mysteries that have no spoken prophesies in the OT for this reason. The mystery form of the kingdom is explained as having Jews and gentiles in it. Tares and wheat. Good fishes and bad fishes. Loyalty and deceit. In Ga 1:4 Paul calls this a "present evil age." All the bad will be bundled and delivered to the fires of the great tribulation and to hell at the end of this age, which we are entering into now.

Follow the logic of the scriptures. God makes perfect sense.

None of this changes:
". . . to the Jew first, and also to the non-Jew."