Created???

[tyndale1946]

I'm not going to call this poster out but just post what he said in his own words because this is Baptist and Bible Study and I don't hang around here much but tend to hang my hat in the C/A Forum... Who else believes this?... Jesus Christ, who from his birth was the image of God, soul, body, and the Holy Spirit indwelling his body, making him a trinitarian entity, and like God... I actually don't know where to start... To me this is denying the Divinity of Christ... Who not only created the worlds but was before the worlds even existed... A body hast thou prepared me... If Divinity didn't cloth itself in our Humanity, then would someone tell me how are sins are forgiven?... Created NEVER!... CREATOR ALWAYS!... Comments... Brother Glen

 

[JonC]

I believe the Triune God was eternally the Triune God.

John tells us that the Word was with God, and God, in the beginning. I do not understand how a Christian could believe that God became triune when Jesus was born as Jesus' birth was not His beginning.

 

[kyredneck]

Who else believes this?... Jesus Christ, who from his birth was the image of God, soul, body, and the Holy Spirit indwelling his body...

I believe:

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Jn 1

9 for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, Col 2

Created NEVER!.

Are you sure this is what the unnamed poster meant?

 

[JD731]

I believe:

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Jn 1

9 for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, Col 2



Are you sure this is what the unnamed poster meant?

Jesus Christ was not a tripartite man before his incarnation, but he was the triune God. After his incarnation, he was no less God but he became a man. His nature was tripartite, unlike any man between Cain and the disciples in John 20, when he breathed the Spirit into his disciples after his resurrection and glorification, who, at that time, likewise became tripartite men. Every man since then who has believed in him have likewise received the Spirit to quicken them and give them eternal life by his presence in their mortal bodies, making them tripartite men.

This is called the new birth, or being born again. If one did not need to be born again, then Jesus Christ would not have died in order for it to occur Why do you men think he came into the world as a man? Where did he get his power in a weak body to keep from sinning? It was by the Spirit who dwelt in his body.

A body was prepared for the Lord Jesus.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Have you all read the scriptures enough to know how to define life? Life is the presence of God in the person of his Spirit.

Ac 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (speaking of his body which was in the tomb.

The Spirit of God retured to God who gave it when Jesus died. When his soul, body, and Spirit were reunited, God called it a birth. God said Jesus Christ is declared to be the son of God by his resurrection from the dead. Rom 1

He said his resurrection, when his body was quickened by the indwelling Spirit, was a birth, and he said Jesus Christ is the first man to be born in this manner. He is called the "firstborn from the dead."

If the Spirit of God entering into the body of Jesus was a birth, it stands that the Spirit entering into the body of those who believes in him afterward is also a birth. That is what we are told in the scriptures.

Logic 101: If every man who has ever possessed the indwelling Spirit is called a son of God, That would be only two men before the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Adam before the fall (Lk 3:38) and Jesus Christ in several scriptures. But every man who has become a believer in Jesus Christ since are called sons of God, would it not make sense to understand the goal as renewing men to a tripartite nature and would that not make a man a trinity, and in the image of God, who is a trinity?

I rest my case and I know already that some of you will not believe.

 

[Van]

Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, Logos.
,
What was the intended meaning of "making Him a trinitarian entity" Is the idea that the Second Person of the Trinity was "created" for the incarnation? That seems to be the objection of the OP.

Could the intended meaning be "making Him manifestly an entity o our Triune God?" Could making Him refer to revealing Him?

Now, I too, do not like the statement, as Jesus revealed God to us as our image of God by His sinless life, teachings and sacrificial death.

 

[tyndale1946]

Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, Logos.
,
What was the intended meaning of "making Him a trinitarian entity" Is the idea that the Second Person of the Trinity was "created" for the incarnation? That seems to be the objection of the OP.

Could the intended meaning be "making Him manifestly an entity o our Triune God?" Could making Him refer to revealing Him?

Now, I too, do not like the statement, as Jesus revealed God to us as the perfect image of God by His sinless life, teachings and sacrificial death.

The problem with the OP is... Born again with the death of Christ?... Question if our belief is in the death of Christ, what do we do with those born before Jesus Christ incarnation?... There are three in the Godhead, one seems to missing... The birthing agent... Brother Glen

 

[Van]

The problem with the OP is... Born again with the death of Christ?... Question if our belief is in the death of Christ, what do we do with those born before Jesus Christ incarnation?... There are three in the Godhead, one seems to missing... The birthing agent... Brother Glen

It seems, Sir, you took the long way around the barn. The Second Person of the Trinity existed before the incarnation and was not born again, going from being spiritually dead to being spiritually alive. Jesus was physically regenerated, His dead body was brought to life again. We, those given to Christ, are born anew spiritually at our spiritual regeneration, still live in mortal bodies. Until Christ comes again, we still physically died, but our human spirit is taken to be present with the Lord in heaven. When Christ returns in the Air, all those born anew spiritually will undergo the redemption of our physical bodies, our ultimate sanctification.

 

[37818]

All three Persons who are the one God are not created.
Now the Son who is God the uncaused Cause by becoming a Man became part of His own creation. He bring the uncreated Creator of all created things. John 1:1-3. John 1:14.

 

[percho]

For, let this mind be in you that is also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God, but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,

That one, a anthrōpos, was the Word made flesh, a man, born of woman. Matt 1:20 states the Word was generated in her out of Spirit as flesh and blood and was holy. Joseph being obedient to what the angel told him concerning a virgin bringing forth God with us knew her not until the virgin brought him forth, Therefore he was generated (conceived) and brought forth holy. One day that man, the Holy One. anointed with the Holy Spirit by God the Father. The Word made flesh, died for our sins by dismissing the anointed Spirit of life of him unto the hands of the Father of him. He became obedient unto the will of the Father and died upon a cross. That brought forth righteousness.

The very next word Phil 2:9 διό dió, dee-o'; from G1223 and G3739; through which thing, i.e. consequently:—for which cause, therefore, wherefore.---- on the third day after dying - dead and unclean in the eyes of God.

The washing of regeneration takes place

also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name, Also Acts 2:33 took place: at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father --

I think most of you want to deny the humanity of the Son of God, the Word made flesh.

Before Adam was created God was going to defeat Satan through the Word made flesh, the Word God manifested in the flesh the Son of God. He was going to defeat the devil, through, the death.

and the God of the peace shall bruise the Adversary under your feet [in unto quickness] quickly; the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen! Rom 16:20

[in unto quickness] In a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump. ----- They will be standing on their feet alive out of the dead.

 

[tyndale1946]

Where in scripture does it say the Lord was regenerated or after his death he was unclean?... Regeneration applies to us not him... If he was unclean he would be put in a paupers grave, he was put in a rich mans tomb... He resurrected himself, death could not keep him and the following scripture proves it and the washing of regeneration applies to us the sinners not to him the Savior... Brother Glen

John 10: 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Titus 3: 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Van]

Where in scripture does it say the Lord was regenerated or after his death he was unclean?.. Snip .

1) Here we see that Reformed Theology claims, or at least one of its advocates claim, that Jesus was not regenerated. And although this was posted yesterday, not one other Reformed poster questioned the obviously bogus claim. See Matthew 19:28.

"Jesus was physically regenerated, His dead body was brought to life again."​

2) The poster who claimed Jesus was unclean has not basis in scripture for that mistaken view.

 

[tyndale1946]

1) Here we see that Reformed Theology claims, or at least one of its advocates claim, that Jesus was not regenerated. And although this was posted yesterday, not one other Reformed poster questioned the obviously bogus claim. See Matthew 19:28.

"Jesus was physically regenerated, His dead body was brought to life again."​

2) The poster who claimed Jesus was unclean has not basis in scripture for that mistaken view.

That proves nothing Van he is not telling them to follow him in the regeneration, he's telling them he is the regenerator... I've been in the church over 50 years and heard every sermon under the sun and in all that time I never heard that Jesus needed to be regenerated, resurrected... I can't count the times but regenerated?... Never... So you are saying Jesus needed to be born again?... You are telling me that Ephesians 2:1 applies to Jesus?... Because that is what regeneration is a quickening of those who were dead in trespasses and sin... As I said before this applies to us only... If one of our preachers made this comment, Jesus was physically regenerated, His dead body was brought to life again... He would be shown the door... Its true Jesus is dead but he doesn't need to be regenerated but resurrected which he has the power to do himself... I have brethren on here who believe the same way I do and if they feel I have stepped out of line, feel free to contact me but until they do, this is where I stand... Brother Glen

 

[kyredneck]

The Second Person of the Trinity existed before the incarnation and was not born again

The Second Person of the Trinity existed before the incarnation and was indeed born from above, just as the literal translation of 'anothen' in John 3 should be rendered.

The celestial Jerusalem, mother of us all (Galatians 4:26):

1 And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars;
2 and she was the child; and she crieth out, travailing in birth, and in pain to be delivered.
5 And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.
17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: Rev 12

Christ, 'the firstborn among many brethren'.

 

[tyndale1946]

The Second Person of the Trinity existed before the incarnation and was indeed born from above, just as the literal translation of 'anothen' should be rendered.

The celestial Jerusalem, mother of us all (Galatians 4:26):

1 And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars;
2 and she was the child; and she crieth out, travailing in birth, and in pain to be delivered.
5 And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.
17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: Rev 12

Malachi 3: 1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to this temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Brother Glen

 

[tyndale1946]

1) Here we see that Reformed Theology claims, or at least one of its advocates claim, that Jesus was not regenerated. And although this was posted yesterday, not one other Reformed poster questioned the obviously bogus claim. See Matthew 19:28.

"Jesus was physically regenerated, His dead body was brought to life again."​

2) The poster who claimed Jesus was unclean has not basis in scripture for that mistaken view.

Well if they bought it, they're are not seeing what I'm seeing... Physically resurrected I can buy... Physically regenerated I can not... Regeneration is a doctrine, a teaching, a belief for us and it applies only to us... I guess the Reformers didn't catch what I did... Jesus didn't need regeneration, he needed resurrection, to further prove he is the regenerator... Bad interpretation and choice of a word... And without him and HIS RESURRECTION we would be laying in our graves with no where to go... Brother Glen

 

[tyndale1946]

Well if they bought it, they're are not seeing what I'm seeing... Physically resurrected I can buy... Physically regenerated I can not... Regeneration is a doctrine, a teaching, a belief for us and it applies only to us... I guess the Reformers didn't catch what I did... Jesus didn't need regeneration, he needed resurrection, to further prove he is the regenerator... Bad interpretation and choice of a word... And without him and HIS RESURRECTION we would be laying in our graves with no where to go... Brother Glen

To the poster that said that Jesus was unclean, might look at this scripture which denies that thought... If your unclean your corrupt.

Psalms 16: 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 

[percho]

Where in scripture does it say the Lord was regenerated or after his death he was unclean?... Regeneration applies to us not him... If he was unclean he would be put in a paupers grave, he was put in a rich mans tomb... He resurrected himself, death could not keep him and the following scripture proves it and the washing of regeneration applies to us the sinners not to him the Savior... Brother Glen

John 10: 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Titus 3: 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Look, I know, no Greek nor Hebrew yet I ask; From Numbers 19:11 לְכָל־נֶפֶשׁ אָדָם - Literally is that ; to any of soul human and or to any of person in that which was made from the dust of the earth, soul body?

That was speaking of one who had handled one dead. Is that one unclean because the dead is unclean relative to God, Do you think Nicky and Joseph of Arimathea were considered unclean? In Num 19:12 what takes place on the third day relative to that uncleanness that comes from one dead?

What does Gal 1:1 state, Could the Greek word translated, "take," also be translated, "receive'? How do you understand say, Rom 8:11 and 1 Peter 1:21 relative to being raised especially 1 Peter 1:21 and gave him glory considering what Heb 5:5 where it is stated Christ glorified not himself, also John 17:6 where Jesus ask God the Father to glorify him?

Speaking of Hebrews 5:5 YLT so also the Christ did not glorify himself to become chief priest, but He who spake unto him: 'My Son thou art, I to-day have begotten thee;'

What does γεγέννηκά mean? to-day. What day?

This exact phrase is used twice, πρωτότοκος ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν, Col 1:18 and Rev 1:5 and can only mean exactly what it says, and it is speaking of Jesus. first-born out of the of dead

 

[Van]

That proves nothing Van he is not telling them to follow him in the regeneration, he's telling them he is the regenerator... I've been in the church over 50 years and heard every sermon under the sun and in all that time I never heard that Jesus needed to be regenerated, resurrected... I can't count the times but regenerated?... Never... So you are saying Jesus needed to be born again?... You are telling me that Ephesians 2:1 applies to Jesus?... Because that is what regeneration is a quickening of those who were dead in trespasses and sin... As I said before this applies to us only... If one of our preachers made this comment, Jesus was physically regenerated, His dead body was brought to life again... He would be shown the door... Its true Jesus is dead but he doesn't need to be regenerated but resurrected which he has the power to do himself... I have brethren on here who believe the same way I do and if they feel I have stepped out of line, feel free to contact me but until they do, this is where I stand... Brother Glen

Did I say Jesus "needed" to be regenerated? No, of course not. He chose to die for us!!
Did I say "Jesus was physically regenerated, His dead body was brought to life again? Yes.

And BTW folks, did you read, Matthew 19:28?

Did anyone say Jesus was telling them to follow Him in this verse? Nope.

Is Jesus saying He is the regenerator? Nope, not in this verse.

And BTW, I have heard Jesus was dead, and now is risen from the dead, for many Easter services.

 

[percho]

To the poster that said that Jesus was unclean, might look at this scripture which denies that thought... If your unclean your corrupt.

Psalms 16: 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 13:34 YLT 'And that He did raise him up out of the dead, no more to return to corruption, he hath said thus -- I will give to you the faithful kindnesses of David;

Why do you believe it is In. on, after three days? Why did Martha say, 'Sir, already he stinketh, for he is four days dead;

I say because of washing of regeneration on the third day.

 

[percho]

Did I say Jesus "needed" to be regenerated? No, of course not. He chose to die for us!!
Did I say "Jesus was physically regenerated, His dead body was brought to life again? Yes.

And BTW folks, did you read, Matthew 19:28?

Did anyone say Jesus was telling them to follow Him in this verse? Nope.

Is Jesus saying He is the regenerator? Nope, not in this verse.

And BTW, I have heard Jesus was dead, and now is risen from the dead, for many Easter services.

Van what happened to the sins of us which the Father laid on the Son? When they were laid on the Son he was alive with his blood flowing through him. He then gave his like, shed his blood, by dismissing the Spirit of him into the hands of the Father. Jesus Christ was DEAD. On the 14th Jesus Christ died 15th Jesus Christ was dead, 16 Jesus Christ was dead, 17th for most of 24 hr period Jesus Christ was dead, then Jesus Christ was made alive again by God the Father.

1 Cor 15:17 and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins;

If Christ the only one to date to be raised out of the dead in the manner spoken of in Romans 6:9 had not been made alive out of the dead, would the sins of us be washed away in his blood? Would there even be; the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen, Faith?

for since through man is the death, also through man [Christ] is a rising again of the dead, for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ From 1 Cor 15:21-23

First-fruit Christ, singular. To date Jesus is the only one born of woman who has died and been raised out of the dead to die no more,

knowing that Christ, having been raised up out of the dead, doth no more die, death over him hath no more lordship; Rom 6:9

How long do you believe death had lordship over Christ?