Are we in the tribulation?

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes, with the great atrocities of the 20th Century, it is hard, on one hand, to imagine that Satan has been bound. Yet, the binding was not to stop sin from existing, but to give the church the grace to go spread the gospel to every nation, tribe, and tongue. When the season of missionary work is complete, we will see Satan unleashed to try destroy the church (the woman, the bride of Christ), but it is then that Jesus will come as a thief in the night and plunder Satan and cast him forever into the Lake of Fire along with the beast, the false prophet, and all who have the mark of the beast.

I'm sure you are right, Revelation 20:3 says that Satan is bound, 'so that he should deceive the nations no more.' Before the coming of Christ, the gentile nations were in darkness under the sway of Satan , but Christ has bound the strong man and is busy plundering his house (Mark 3:27; cf. Revelation 6:2).

 

[tyndale1946]

I'm sure you are right, Revelation 20:3 says that Satan is bound, 'so that he should deceive the nations no more.' Before the coming of Christ, the gentile nations were in darkness under the sway of Satan , but Christ has bound the strong man and is busy plundering his house (Mark 3:27; cf. Revelation 6:2).

If we are not in the tribulation now and Christ is not reigning, would someone explain these scriptures that says he is?... And if I understand scripture, his reign ends when death has been defeated and he's delivered those he died for to his Father... Brother Glen

1 Corinthians 15: 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

And to the Brother that made this comment... It would seem to me that what we are seeing is the prince of the power of the air {Satan} reigning here. It's either that or Christ is a rather ineffective ruler.

If Christ was not ruling now, this is what the world would look like!

Genesis 6: 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

What is he doing seated on the right hand Of God his Father, gathering dust?

So where is the Holy Spirit after the Son delivers the Kingdom to his Father, His job is finished!... and to the Brother and those that think Christ is not ruling now... If Christ is not ruling now, your prayers are ineffective!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If we are not in the tribulation now and Christ is not reigning, would someone explain these scriptures that says he is?... And if I understand scripture, his reign ends when death has been defeated and he's delivered those he died for to his Father... Brother Glen

You may rest assured, brother Glen, that Christ is reigning. The world is proceeding pretty much as the Bible says it will. There are wars and rumours of wars, there are famines, pestilences and earthquakes (Matthew 24:6-7); there are persecutions and false prophets, lawlessness, deception and falling away from Christ (Matthew 24:9-12; 1 Timothy 4:1-3). Perilous times have come and evil men are growing worse and worse (2 Timothy 3:1-13). If all these things were not going on, we would know that the Bible is not true.
But in the last 150 years, the Gospel has spread into almost every country, and despite the falling-away that is going on in your country and mine, there are many more Christians than there used to be. In 1950, when the missionaries were expelled from China, there were about one million Chinese Christians. Today, despite increasing persecutions, I read in a responsible source that there are estimated to be 150 million of them now. The Lord Jesus is in control and will bring things to the desired end.

 

[tyndale1946]

You may rest assured, brother Glen, that Christ is reigning. The world is proceeding pretty much as the Bible says it will. There are wars and rumours of wars, there are famines, pestilences and earthquakes (Matthew 24:6-7); there are persecutions and false prophets, lawlessness, deception and falling away from Christ (Matthew 24:9-12; 1 Timothy 4:1-3). Perilous times have come and evil men are growing worse and worse (2 Timothy 3:1-13). If all these things were not going on, we would know that the Bible is not true.
But in the last 150 years, the Gospel has spread into almost every country, and despite the falling-away that is going on in your country and mine, there are many more Christians than there used to be. In 1950, when the missionaries were expelled from China, there were about one million Chinese Christians. Today, despite increasing persecutions, I read in a responsible source that there are estimated to be 150 million of them now. The Lord Jesus is in control and will bring things to the desired end.

I say just do your work and the Lord will do his... The Brother that made the comment forgets that Christ doesn't need to reign on the earth, he's taking us to Heaven... If those who believe that Christ will reign for 1,000 years can stay here and play their millennial games... I'll take eternity where they never end... Brother Glen

 

[Silverhair]

It's too bad you find such an encouraging and practical letter, in the Bible, to be irrelevant for yourself. That's sad, and it just shows your lack of biblical understanding that flows over into the rest of your theology.
The letter is...a Revelation of Jesus...to the Church. Like all prophetic writings, it is relevant to every generation and speaks to both past, present, and future. It is sad that you don't understand this truth in the Revelation.

Austin if you want to live your life in expectation of the end times then by all means do so. I for one do not plan on being here for it but your welcome to stay in my place.

It seem that anyone that does not think as you do must have a deficient understanding of scripture. Must be hard on you to have to deal with all us lesser folks. Your arrogance is mind boggling.

 

[AustinC]

Austin if you want to live your life in expectation of the end times then by all means do so. I for one do not plan on being here for it but your welcome to stay in my place.

It seem that anyone that does not think as you do must have a deficient understanding of scripture. Must be hard on you to have to deal with all us lesser folks. Your arrogance is mind boggling.

I once was a pre-trib dispensationalist who bought full in to Hal Lindsey and the Left Behind movies. Revelation didn't make sense and simply caused me to be afraid that I might somehow be left behind. It's too bad I was raised is such a terrible eschatological view because I missed out, for years, on the amazing encouragement that God gives to all believers as we persevere in tribulation against the dragon, the beast of the sea, the beast of the land, and the great harlot of this worlds perverse economic lust for hedonism.
It's too bad you don't see the Revelation that Jesus gave us, which encourages us everyday. But, perhaps God has spared you from trials and tribulations so that you cannot understand.

 

[Silverhair]

I once was a pre-trib dispensationalist who bought full in to Hal Lindsey and the Left Behind movies. Revelation didn't make sense and simply caused me to be afraid that I might somehow be left behind. It's too bad I was raised is such a terrible eschatological view because I missed out, for years, on the amazing encouragement that God gives to all believers as we persevere in tribulation against the dragon, the beast of the sea, the beast of the land, and the great harlot of this worlds perverse economic lust for hedonism.
It's too bad you don't see the Revelation that Jesus gave us, which encourages us everyday. But, perhaps God has spared you from trials and tribulations so that you cannot understand.

I just trust the bible and trust that I will not be here so why worry about what I can not change. You want to see it that you are going to go through the trib. so be it. As I said you think everyone has to think like you. Sorry to disappoint. FYI never was into Hal Lindsey and the Left Behind movies.

From what I have read there seems to be a lot of confusion as to pre, mid or post so it seems to be more of a mugs game than anything else. I look at it this way, God has a plan and I am sure that it will all work out so I do not worry about it. I trust that He knows what He is doing. Don't you?

 

[AustinC]

I just trust the bible and trust that I will not be here so why worry about what I can not change. You want to see it that you are going to go through the trib. so be it. As I said you think everyone has to think like you. Sorry to disappoint. FYI never was into Hal Lindsey and the Left Behind movies.

From what I have read there seems to be a lot of confusion as to pre, mid or post so it seems to be more of a mugs game than anything else. I look at it this way, God has a plan and I am sure that it will all work out so I do not worry about it. I trust that He knows what He is doing. Don't you?

So we both trust the Bible and you imagine the Bible tells you that you won't suffer and carry your cross, that Jesus wasn't talking to you and telling you what life would be like before he came back. Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[Silverhair]

So we both trust the Bible and you imagine the Bible tells you that you won't suffer and carry your cross, that Jesus wasn't talking to you and telling you what life would be like before he came back. Let me know how that works out for you.

You do have a unique way of misreading what ever I post. If you read your bible the way you read my posts that would explain your lack of understanding of scripture. You read into my posts what you want to find and you do the same to the bible.

 

[AustinC]

You do have a unique way of misreading what ever I post. If you read your bible the way you read my posts that would explain your lack of understanding of scripture. You read into my posts what you want to find and you do the same to the bible.

 

[MrW]

I'm sure you are right, Revelation 20:3 says that Satan is bound, 'so that he should deceive the nations no more.' Before the coming of Christ, the gentile nations were in darkness under the sway of Satan , but Christ has bound the strong man and is busy plundering his house (Mark 3:27; cf. Revelation 6:2).

Satan is presently plundering what calls itself the church.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Satan is presently plundering what calls itself the church.

Seemingly so, but the gates of hell will not prevail against the church of Christ which he is currently building.

 

[MrW]

It will get worse (great tribulation) before it gets better. America will become a has-been and satan will prevail on earth for a time.

 

[AustinC]

It will get worse (great tribulation) before it gets better. America will become a has-been and satan will prevail on earth for a time.

We agree. It will get worse in the US. This does not mean we are not in the tribulation now, however.
Are you telling me that the saints in North Korea, China and many Muslim countries who are being brutally martyred for the faith will someday see something even worse? I think we have been blessed to not face physical persecution, but we have also been seduced by the harlot for 200 plus years and we have severely compromised the faith by sleeping with her. Any saint outside the US should look on us with disgust and pray that we repent.

 

[AustinC]

Seemingly so, but the gates of hell will not prevail against the church of Christ which he is currently building.

The gates of hell have not stopped the church in this 1000 year binding of Satan as missions has marched forward.

 

[Salty]

Are you telling me that the saints in North Korea, China and many Muslim countries who are being brutally martyred for the faith will someday see something even worse?

YES -

As was stated in post #2:

You're right we are just experiencing the birth pains so far.. I think we all can see that it's coming.
MB

 

[AustinC]

YES -

As was stated in post #2:

LOL, our brother's in N Korea are being tortured and you say "it could be worse."
No, it couldn't be worse. They are being hunted down and slaughtered. It is great tribulation for my brother's.

The US-centric view of dispensationalism is very odd to me. As long as the US is peachy, the tribulation doesn't exist, but as times get harder in the US...then, all of a sudden, we better get ready...cause we can't go through tribulation here. No way! Jesus has got to rapture us out before a totalitarian regimes takes over!

My goodness. Go through the entire 22 chapters of Revelation and you will not read of any rapture before a tribulation.

Let's look at Matthew 24:40-44 and see what Jesus tells us.

Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

First, Jesus is the thief.
Second, The master (strong man) is Satan.
Jesus is returning and destroying Satan (the dragon [see Revelation 20]).
Third, the ones who are left are the one who enter into the New Jerusalem (the bride of Christ [Revelation 21]). The ones that are taken are those who have followed the beast, the false prophet and slept with the whore of Babylon. They are cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19).

What is not taught, by anyone in the Bible, is a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. So many of my brother's in Christ who hold that view will be sadly mistaken, having wasted their lives on a fantasy that left them unprepared for the perseverance necessary to stand firm in the faith under great persecution and tribulation.

When I see my brother's in N Korea, Iran, China, Sudan, etc., I see them in great tribulation and I pray for their perseverance. I know that in my world (the US) the false prophet is changing the minds of the godless to bring the humanist beast of Communism to these shores. Sooner than later we will be underground and the BB will be a memory.
The great encouraging thing is that we who believe have been marked by God. His plagues will fall on the wicked who worship the beast. Make no mistake, the beast, the false prophet, and Babylon have always been amongst us. We simply have not had eyes to see or ears to hear. Let us stop being like Sardis. Let us wake up from our slumber.

So, yes, the brother's in N Korea are experiencing a great tribulation right now.

 

[timtofly]

Apparently you don't have Romans 2, Romans 9, Romans 11, and Galatians 3 in your Bible.
Perhaps you do not understand the Covenants.

Romans 2 deals with the salvation experience, not those alive during Jacob's trouble.

Romans 9 points out the Gentiles will probably not do much better than Jacob did under the Law, and should not get to prideful being under grace. But still there will be a time for Jacob's trouble in the future, and a remnant will be saved despite the NT churches failure to convert the entire world.

Romans 11 specifically states we are not in the tribulation nor is Satan bound, by the simple point, we are in the fulness of the Gentiles, and Jacob's trouble and Satan's binding has been put on hold until the time allotted for the Gentiles to become the church is over. Abraham and Jacob had 2000 years to get it right and pull the redeemed out of the fire, and you can see how that turned out.

The Gentiles have had almost 2,000 years and many of Jacob are still not going to enter the church, but will now be ready to enter Jacob's trouble.

Galatians 3 just says the Law did not have any thing to do with faith and being redeemed. But was a schoolmaster preparing Jacob for the first coming of Christ.

Perhaps you don't understand the 3rd Covenant where sin is removed, and Satan is bound for a thousand years?