The Biblical Doctrine of Election

[AustinC]

Show me one conservative translation where pronouns of Deity are capitalized does so.

NASB, "How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, . . ."

37, please explain what you think the New Covenant community is.
I've brought up the parallel between the Mosaic Covenant and the Nation Israel in connection with circumcision and I've stated that the New Covenant Church, the Israel of God, has a similar connection with baptism.
When you read through the sermon to the Hebrews, you need to focus on the Covenant teachings of the speaker. If you miss that, you will never grasp what he is exhorting to the church in which he is preaching.

 

[MrW]

Peter doesn’t say “we”, but “ye”, which means Gentiles were once not God’s people. It doesn’t refer to Israel. Your reference is incorrect.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Show me one conservative translation where pronouns of Deity are capitalized does so.

The KJV, ESV and NIV do not capitalize pronouns of deity.
Here is John Owen on the subject in his commentary on Hebrews:
'The last aggravation of this sin with respect unto the blood of Christ is that it is that "wherewith he was sanctified." This is not a real internal sanctification, but a separation and dedication unto God, in which sense the word is often used. Some have thought that this refers unto the person guilty of the sin here insisted on; but the design of the Apostle in the context leads plainly to another application of these words. It is Christ himself who is spoken of, who was sanctified and dedicated unto God to be an eternal High Priest by the blood of the covenant which he offered unto God. That precious blood of Christ whereby he was sanctified and dedicated unto God, they esteemed an "unholy thing," that is, such as would have no such effect as to consecrate him unto God and to his office.

Another important point is that if people who have been sanctified by God can fall away to such an extent that they regard the blood of the covenant an unholy thing, that plays into the hands of the paedobaptists who 'baptize' infants into the new covenant but hold that they can fall away. Baptists have always believed that new covenant in Christ's blood is for all time and so did the writer to the Hebrews (Hebrews 10:15-17; cf. Jeremiah 31:31-34).

 

[AustinC]

Peter doesn’t say “we”, but “ye”, which means Gentiles were once not God’s people. It doesn’t refer to Israel. Your reference is incorrect.

*1 Peter 2:9-10*
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

 

[37818]

The KJV, ESV and NIV do not capitalize pronouns of deity.
Here is John Owen on the subject in his commentary on Hebrews:
'The last aggravation of this sin with respect unto the blood of Christ is that it is that "wherewith he was sanctified." This is not a real internal sanctification, but a separation and dedication unto God, in which sense the word is often used. Some have thought that this refers unto the person guilty of the sin here insisted on; but the design of the Apostle in the context leads plainly to another application of these words. It is Christ himself who is spoken of, who was sanctified and dedicated unto God to be an eternal High Priest by the blood of the covenant which he offered unto God. That precious blood of Christ whereby he was sanctified and dedicated unto God, they esteemed an "unholy thing," that is, such as would have no such effect as to consecrate him unto God and to his office.

Another important point is that if people who have been sanctified by God can fall away to such an extent that they regard the blood of the covenant an unholy thing, that plays into the hands of the paedobaptists who 'baptize' infants into the new covenant but hold that they can fall away. Baptists have always believed that new covenant in Christ's blood is for all time and so did the writer to the Hebrews (Hebrews 10:15-17; cf. Jeremiah 31:31-34).

Your interpertation that "He was sanctified" is not Biblically correct in Hebrews 10:29. Also I do not hold that the saved can become lost.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Your interpretation that "He was sanctified" is not Biblically correct in Hebrews 10:29. Also I do not hold that the saved can become lost.

1. It is not my interpretation, but that of John Owen and all (SFAIK) the 17th Century Particular Baptists.
2. So do you believe that someone who was sanctified by the blood of the new covenant (i.e. the blood of Christ. 1 Corinthians 11:25).can trample the Son of God underfoot, count the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing and insult the Spirit of grace? I am surprised if a Baptist can believe that.

 

[Van]

We have gone over this on multiple occasions. You hold an unorthodox view of election that is not biblically sound. Moreso, when this issue is addressed, you will not accept your error. So, you become a pounding drum and crashing cymbal of a doctrine not taught by God.

Another nothing burger featuring taint so sauce, but nary a word of specific rebuttal. All these like minded posters seem to have no actual view, but claim to know well studied views of scholars are wrong. Go figure.

 

[Van]

Where does Scripture say our faith is 'as a filthy rag'?

Yet another poster who questions my qualifications but he, himself, does not know how to do a word search. Amazing...

Martin uses the NKJV, but does not recall Isaiah 64:6.

 

[Van]

Hebrews 10;29, "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

I have already addressed your mistaken understanding of sanctified. Please address the rebuttal you deleted from post #11.

 

[MrW]

Yet another poster who questions my qualifications but he, himself, does not know how to do a word search. Amazing...

Martin uses the NKJV, but does not recall Isaiah 64:6.

It doesn't say our faith is filthy rags. It says our RIGHTEOUSNESSES are as filthy rags.

 

[Van]

Before the New Covenant in His blood was inaugurated, i.e. before Christ died as the Lamb of God, humanity was under the Old Covenant. All humanity was made sinners, and had no way to be reconciled to God. Some individuals obtained approval through faith, see Hebrews 11, but whether one shared in the blood line of Abraham or not, non-believers were all heading for destruction.

The New Covenant was inaugurated when Christ died, and all of humanity was set apart (sanctified) under its provisions, which provided a means of salvation for all humanity, those to be saved and those never to be saved. Thus Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, as Christ became the means of reconciliation for everyone, if they believe in the Son of God, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

 

[Van]

It doesn't say our faith is filthy rags. It says our RIGHTEOUSNESSES are as filthy rags.

Are you really saying our faith is unrighteousness in our eyes but not a filthy rag to God?

 

[MrW]

Are you really saying our faith is unrighteousness in our eyes but not a filthy rag to God?

I'm sorry it's unclear. Our righteousnesses are as filthy rags in God's sight. What are OUR righteousnesses? To the ancient Israeli, it was keeping the Mosaic Law. To us, it's church attendance, tithing, not cussing, not getting drunk, not committing adultery, not lying, not stealing, etc., for the purpose of EARNING our salvation and/or obtaining God's favor apart from BELIEVING GOD and depending on His Christ.

Abraham didn't do that. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. Salvation come by believing God. That's not filthy rags, seeking to earn salvation or obtaining favor with God apart from Christ. No, that is obedience to God's command.

 

[Van]

Hebrews 10:29 (Interpretive translation)

How much worse punishment, do you suppose, the one will be counted worthy, having trampled on the Son of God and deemed as contaminated the blood of the covenant, in which that person was set apart, outraging the Spirit of Grace.​

 

[Van]

I'm sorry it's unclear. Our righteousnesses are as filthy rags in God's sight. What are OUR righteousnesses? To the ancient Israeli, it was keeping the Mosaic Law. To us, it's church attendance, tithing, not cussing, not getting drunk, not committing adultery, not lying, not stealing, etc., for the purpose of EARNING our salvation and/or obtaining God's favor apart from BELIEVING GOD and depending on His Christ.

Abraham didn't do that. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. Salvation come by believing God. That's not filthy rags, seeking to earn salvation or obtaining favor with God apart from Christ. No, that is obedience to God's command.

I am sorry, but you are claiming, apparently, that faith needed to be counted as righteousness, but was not a filthy rag. Why would it need to be counted as righteousness if it was already righteousness?

Righteousness refers to our thoughts and actions deemed appropriate, rather than inappropriate. Thus our act of trusting fully in Christ is appropriate, thus an act of righteousness on our part, in accordance with the command of Christ - believe in the One God sent. However, because of our sinful state, prior to salvation, our faith needs to be counted, reckoned, considered to be righteousness, because on it own merits it is merely a filthy rag. Or do you suppose salvation depends on the persons who will, contrary to Romans 9:16?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yet another poster who questions my qualifications but he, himself, does not know how to do a word search. Amazing...

Martin uses the NKJV, but does not recall Isaiah 64:6.

Thanks for referencing Isaiah 64:6, but I was asking where the Bible says our faith is 'as a filthy rag.
Romans 4:5. 'But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted as righteousness.'

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Hebrews 10:29 (Interpretive translation)

How much worse punishment, do you suppose, the one will be counted worthy, having trampled on the Son of God and deemed as contaminated the blood of the covenant, in which that person was set apart, outraging the Spirit of Grace.​

Wrong interpretation.

 

[MrW]

I am sorry, but you are claiming, apparently, that faith needed to be counted as righteousness, but was not a filthy rag. Why would it need to be counted as righteousness if it was already righteousness?

Righteousness refers to our thoughts and actions deemed appropriate, rather than inappropriate. Thus our act of trusting fully in Christ is appropriate, thus an act of righteousness on our part, in accordance with the command of Christ - believe in the One God sent. However, because of our sinful state, prior to salvation, our faith needs to be counted, reckoned, considered to be righteousness, because on it own merits it is merely a filthy rag. Or do you suppose salvation depends on the persons who will, contrary to Romans 9:16?

#33.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I am sorry, but you are claiming, apparently, that faith needed to be counted as righteousness, but was not a filthy rag. Why would it need to be counted as righteousness if it was already righteousness?

2 Peter 1:1. '.....To those who have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.'
Jere Peter tells us not only that our faith, far from being 'dirty-rag' is actually precious, and something we have obtained from the Lord Jesus Christ. It is truly the gift of God.

 

[Van]

Thanks for referencing Isaiah 64:6, but I was asking where the Bible says our faith is 'as a filthy rag.
Romans 4:5. 'But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted as righteousness.'

You answered your question with your verse.