What Exactly Does "Have Fellowship With Devils" Mean?

[Scripture More Accurately]

Explicit, apostolic teaching in 1 Cor. 10:19-20 inerrantly teaches us that having fellowship with demons is wrong, immoral, sinful, and not what God wants for any of His people:

1 Cor. 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?

20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
​

What exactly does "have fellowship with devils" mean?

The goal of this thread is to have an intensely biblical, focused discussion on the exegesis and interpretation of the meaning of this teaching. It is not to discuss all kinds of other things that may be related in some way.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Interesting topic for discussion; thank you. I'll stick my head above the parapet.
The section we are looking at starts at verse 14, and begins with a 'therefore.' So the section has to do with the experiences of Israel in the wilderness (vs. 1-13).
Paul is saying that an idol is nothing but wood or stone and food sacrificed to them is neither better or worse for that in itself. Therefore to eat in an Indian restaurant, where the food may be 'halal' is not a problem (vs. 25-27). But behind the idols and the food are demonic forces. In verse 20, Paul alludes to the Song of Moses (Deuteronomy 32:17) to make his point.

The Corinthians lived in a very wicked city. It was a byword throughout the Empire for immorality and idolatry. They had only recently come out of paganism. They may well still have friends who were still pagan. It was OK for them to buy meat that might have been sacrificed to idols (v.25). It was OK for them to go to someone's home for dinner and to eat what was put in front of them (v.27). But they might be invited to come along to a celebration at a pagan Temple and join in the feast afterwards. This, Paul is saying they should not do, as they would be having fellowship (or 'partaking of') demons.

 

[Van]

1 Timothy 4:1- 5 (NET)
Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings, influenced by the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared. They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creation of God is good and no food is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving. For it is sanctified by God's word and by prayer.​

One of the ancillary studies of Theology is Demonology. However, since the central facet of Christianity is Christ, our focus must remain becoming better disciples of Christ, rather than just eschewing fellowship with anti-Christs.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

1 Cor. 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?

20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

Paul specifies that what he has in view is that when Gentiles offer sacrifices on an altar to an idol, they are sacrificing to demons--regardless of whether they intend to or not. Such sacrifices are not to God.

Paul then says that he does not want believers to have fellowship with demons, which in the flow of thought in verse 20 has to mean that Gentiles who offer sacrifices on an altar to an idol have fellowship with demons when they do so.

Because multitudes of Gentiles who offer sacrifices to idols do not in actuality have any thought or intention in their minds that they want to or even would be sacrificing to demons, the interpretation that having fellowship with demons means having spiritual commonality of purpose, mindset, etc. with demons is untenable and is not what the passage is teaching.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Interesting topic for discussion; thank you. I'll stick my head above the parapet.
The section we are looking at starts at verse 14, and begins with a 'therefore.' So the section has to do with the experiences of Israel in the wilderness (vs. 1-13).
Paul is saying that an idol is nothing but wood or stone and food sacrificed to them is neither better or worse for that in itself. Therefore to eat in an Indian restaurant, where the food may be 'halal' is not a problem (vs. 25-27). But behind the idols and the food are demonic forces. In verse 20, Paul alludes to the Song of Moses (Deuteronomy 32:17) to make his point.

The Corinthians lived in a very wicked city. It was a byword throughout the Empire for immorality and idolatry. They had only recently come out of paganism. They may well still have friends who were still pagan. It was OK for them to buy meat that might have been sacrificed to idols (v.25). It was OK for them to go to someone's home for dinner and to eat what was put in front of them (v.27). But they might be invited to come along to a celebration at a pagan Temple and join in the feast afterwards. This, Paul is saying they should not do, as they would be having fellowship (or 'partaking of') demons.

You are speaking of many different things that are broadly involved in the interpretation of the phrase that I have chosen for discussion, but what exactly do you mean when you speak of "partaking of" demons?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

1 Timothy 4:1- 5 (NET)
Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings, influenced by the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared. They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creation of God is good and no food is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving. For it is sanctified by God's word and by prayer.​

One of the ancillary studies of Theology is Demonology. However, since the central facet of Christianity is Christ, our focus must remain becoming better disciples of Christ, rather than just eschewing fellowship with anti-Christs.

I made no claim that our focus is to be "just eschewing fellowship with anti-Christs." In context, 1 Cor. 10:19-20 does not directly pertain to fellowship with any humans who have been in contact with and influenced by demons. Any such notion is secondary to what these verses are talking about.

 

[Van]

I made no claim that our focus is to be "just eschewing fellowship with anti-Christs." In context, 1 Cor. 10:19-20 does not directly pertain to fellowship with any humans who have been in contact with and influenced by demons. Any such notion is secondary to what these verses are talking about.

In context is a nice phrase. But without presenting your understanding of that context, it is like sprinkling fairy dust on your opinion, I am right because of the unspecified context.

Demonic teachings can be false teachings that are destructive heresies. To limit the scope to fallen spiritual beings that take control of people and pigs is beyond the context.

Last point, my post #3 was posted before you weighed in with your post #4, so I made no claim as to your focus.

But let me address your specific interpretation of 1 Corinthians 10:19-20:

the interpretation that having fellowship with demons means having spiritual commonality of purpose, mindset, etc. with demons is untenable...

I think the context is that pagan beliefs and sacrifices, although fictions, are put into the minds of people by spiritual demonic beings, and so to be participants in these activities means (1) having spiritual commonality of purpose, mindset, etc. with demons, and (2) to be directly or indirectly fellowshiping with demonic powers.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Demonic teachings can be false teachings that are destructive heresies. To limit the scope to fallen spiritual beings that take control of people and pigs is beyond the context.

I did not make any claims concerning what demonic teachings can or cannot be. You introduced something from a parallel passage that is not explicitly in view in 1 Cor. 10:19-20. The point of this thread is not to discuss related ideas from other passages. It is to draw out from the passage itself what God has revealed.

When Gentiles offer sacrifices on an altar to an idol, the vast majority do not have any thoughts of doing anything with any reference to demons. They would be very likely be highly offended to hear someone assert that they are offering things to demons.

Whether demons are or are not the ultimate sources of the origins of Gentiles offering such sacrifices is tangential to what is in view in 1 Cor. 10:19-20. Paul is not talking about the sources or the origins of the practice of offering sacrifices on an altar to an idol.

Rather, he is talking about what in actuality is true of those who do so--regardless of the sources or origins of their practices.

 

[Van]

I did not make any claims concerning what demonic teachings can or cannot be. You introduced something from a parallel passage that is not explicitly in view in 1 Cor. 10:19-20. The point of this thread is not to discuss related ideas from other passages. It is to draw out from the passage itself what God has revealed.

When Gentiles offer sacrifices on an altar to an idol, the vast majority do not have any thoughts of doing anything with any reference to demons. They would be very likely be highly offended to hear someone assert that they are offering things to demons.

Whether demons are or are not the ultimate sources of the origins of Gentiles offering such sacrifices is tangential to what is in view in 1 Cor. 10:19-20. Paul is not talking about the sources or the origins of the practice of offering sacrifices on an altar to an idol.

Rather, he is talking about what in actuality is true of those who do so--regardless of the sources or origins of their practices.

Thanks for finally see it my way.

I think the context is that pagan beliefs and sacrifices, although fictions, are put into the minds of people by spiritual demonic beings, and so to be participants in these activities means (1) having spiritual commonality of purpose, mindset, etc. with demons, and (2) to be directly or indirectly fellowshiping with demonic powers.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Thanks for finally see it my way.

I think the context is that pagan beliefs and sacrifices, although fictions, are put into the minds of people by spiritual demonic beings, and so to be participants in these activities means (1) having spiritual commonality of purpose, mindset, etc. with demons, and (2) to be directly or indirectly fellowshiping with demonic powers.

No, I do not "see it [your] way."

You are inserting something into the passage that is not in view in what Paul actually talks about in the passage.

Furthermore, you have merely asserted something to be true concerning the origins of Gentiles' offering sacrifices on altars to idols. You have not provided any specific biblical support for your assertion.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

What does mean in 1 Cor. 10:20 when Paul speaks about those who have fellowship with demons? In order to determine further what it means, we have to look closely at the Greek text of this verse.

1 Corinthians 10:20 ἀλλ᾽ ὅτι ἃ θύουσιν, δαιμονίοις καὶ οὐ θεῷ [θύουσιν]· οὐ θέλω δὲ ὑμᾶς κοινωνοὺς τῶν δαιμονίων γίνεσθαι.​

In an indirect discourse construction, Paul uses the linking verb γίνομαι as an indirect discourse infinitive with κοινωνοὺς as a predicate accusative and δαιμονίων as an objective genitive.

To have fellowship with demons, therefore, seems to pertain to having something directly to do with some kind of actual interaction with demons themselves and not just to be involved in an activity that may have demons as its ultimate source or origin or to be involved in an activity that is demonic in some other unspecified way or ways.

 

[Van]

No, I do not "see it [your] way."

You are inserting something into the passage that is not in view in what Paul actually talks about in the passage.

Furthermore, you have merely asserted something to be true concerning the origins of Gentiles' offering sacrifices on altars to idols. You have not provided any specific biblical support for your assertion.

LOL, first my view is my opinion, now my view lacks specific biblical support. Whereas your view is comprised of facts well supported by your numerous references to specific verses. Got it...

Paul never mentioned we fight against "spiritual wickedness." No Siree Bob... Folks read Ephesians 2:2 or 6:12.

I think the context is that pagan beliefs and sacrifices, although fictions, are put into the minds of people by spiritual demonic beings, and so to be participants in these activities means (1) having spiritual commonality of purpose, mindset, etc. with demons, and (2) to be directly or indirectly fellowshiping with demonic powers.

Did Paul teach that other deities were fictions? See 1 Corinthians 8:10

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You are speaking of many different things that are broadly involved in the interpretation of the phrase that I have chosen for discussion, but what exactly do you mean when you speak of "partaking of" demons?

I think it is not possible to restrict the discussion strictly to verse 20. To find out what is meant by "partaking of" demons, we have to look back a few verses.
In v.14, Paul tells us, in view of Israel's experiences in the wilderness, to flee from idolatry. In v.16, he speaks of the Lord's supper and declares that is the koinonia of the blood and body of Christ. Whatever he means by koinonia in v.14 he also means in v.18 and v.20 where the same word is used. Koinonia tends to mean a 'fellowship,' a 'sharing' or a 'participation' in something. So whatever koinonia we experience in the Lord's Supper is the same as that which the priests experienced when they ate of the sacrifices, and that which idolators experience when they eat and drink at pagan festivals. The difference, of course, is that believers have their koinonia with Christ, while idolators have theirs with demons.

I am aware that most Baptists today regard the Lord's Supper as simply an act of remembrance, but their 17th Century forebears understood something much deeper, and that understanding was based upon these very verses. At the Supper, there is a genuine, though spiritual, sharing in, or participation in, the blood and body of our Lord. The 1689 Confession states: 'Worthy receivers, outwardly partaking of the visible Elements in this ordinance, do then also inwardly by faith, really and indeed, yet not carnally and corporally, but spiritually receive, and feed upon Christ crucified [1 Corinthians 1:16; 11:23-26] and all the benefits of His death; the Body and Blood of Christ, being then not corporally or carnally, but spiritually present to the faith of Believers, in that Ordinance, as the Elements themselves are to their outward senses.'

In the same way, therefore, those Corinthian Christians who visited pagan temples were in some way feeding upon demons, and the results, as illustrated in 1 Corinthians 11:17-22 (everyone, please read the passage) were disunity and disrespect for the Lord's table. The ordinance had become almost indistinguishable from a pagan festival - drunkenness, gorging, and the poor being neglected. No wonder Paul tells them, 'Therefore, when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper' (v.20).

 

[Van]

SNIP
To have fellowship with demons, therefore, seems to pertain to having something directly to do with some kind of actual interaction with demons themselves... SNIP.

And Van said: (2) to be directly or indirectly fellowshiping with demonic powers.

 

[Van]

Our communion celebrations are for the remembrance of His sacrifice, and not any sort of "spiritual transubstantiation."

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Paul never mentioned we fight against "spiritual wickedness." No Siree Bob... Folks read Ephesians 2:2 or 6:12.

So what?

Paul's teaching that we fight against "spiritual wickedness" does not in any way prove that the ultimate origins of humans offering sacrifices on altars to idols were all directly from demonic teaching.

You have so far provided zero actual explicit biblical support for your assertion.

As I have repeatedly said, the ultimate origins of the practice is not what Paul is speaking about in 1 Cor. 10:20.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I think it is not possible to restrict the discussion strictly to verse 20.

I never said that we had to restrict permanently the discussion to just that verse. The right place to start any proper discussion, however, is to treat what the text specifically says in that verse and progressively expand out to the various levels of biblical context.

 

[Van]

So what?

Paul's teaching that we fight against "spiritual wickedness" does not in any way prove that the ultimate origins of humans offering sacrifices on altars to idols were all directly from demonic teaching.

You have so far provided zero actual explicit biblical support for your assertion.

As I have repeatedly said, the ultimate origins of the practice is not what Paul is speaking about in 1 Cor. 10:20.

Good grief, the verses prove the opposite!!!!!
I have supported my view, and you have still not provided anything of merit.
Your inability to grasp what Paul is speaking about in 1 Corinthians 10:19-20 is obvious.

Your argument that parallel passages do not provide context for understanding a passage is nonsense, we always study all the parallel passages when examining a verse to enlighten our understanding.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I think it is not possible to restrict the discussion strictly to verse 20. To find out what is meant by "partaking of" demons, we have to look back a few verses.
In v.14, Paul tells us, in view of Israel's experiences in the wilderness, to flee from idolatry. In v.16, he speaks of the Lord's supper and declares that is the koinonia of the blood and body of Christ. Whatever he means by koinonia in v.14 he also means in v.18 and v.20 where the same word is used. Koinonia tends to mean a 'fellowship,' a 'sharing' or a 'participation' in something. So whatever koinonia we experience in the Lord's Supper is the same as that which the priests experienced when they ate of the sacrifices, and that which idolators experience when they eat and drink at pagan festivals. The difference, of course, is that believers have their koinonia with Christ, while idolators have theirs with demons.

Strictly speaking, the same word is not used in verses 18 and 20 that is used in verse 16:

1 Corinthians 10:14 Διόπερ, ἀγαπητοί μου, φεύγετε ἀπὸ τῆς εἰδωλολατρείας. 15 ὡς φρονίμοις λέγω, κρίνατε ὑμεῖς ὅ φημι. 16 τὸ ποτήριον τῆς εὐλογίας ὃ εὐλογοῦμεν, οὐχὶ κοινωνία τοῦ αἵματος τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐστί; τὸν ἄρτον ὃν κλῶμεν, οὐχὶ κοινωνία τοῦ σώματος τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐστίν;

17 ὅτι εἷς ἄρτος, ἓν σῶμα, οἱ πολλοί ἐσμεν· οἱ γὰρ πάντες ἐκ τοῦ ἑνὸς ἄρτου μετέχομεν.

18 βλέπετε τὸν Ἰσραὴλ κατὰ σάρκα· οὐχὶ οἱ ἐσθίοντες τὰς θυσίας κοινωνοὶ τοῦ θυσιαστηρίου εἰσί; 19 τί οὖν φημι; ὅτι εἴδωλόν τί ἐστιν; ἢ ὅτι εἰδωλόθυτόν τί ἐστιν; 20 ἀλλ᾽ ὅτι ἃ θύει τὰ ἔθνη, δαιμονίοις θύει, καὶ οὐ Θεῷ· οὐ θέλω δὲ ὑμᾶς κοινωνοὺς τῶν δαιμονίων γίνεσθαι. (1 Cor. 10:14 SCR)

They are related Greek nouns, but they are not the same noun. More importantly, in 10:18 and 10:20, the one noun is used in a different way in conjunction with linking verbs than how the other noun is used with linking verbs in 10:18.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Good grief, the verses prove the opposite!!!!!
I have supported my view, and you have still not provided anything of merit.
Your inability to grasp what Paul is speaking about in 1 Corinthians 10:19-20 is obvious.

Your argument that parallel passages do not provide context for understanding a passage is nonsense, we always study all the parallel passages when examining a verse to enlighten our understanding.

No amount of agitated commenting is going to change what the texts say.

Saying that we fight against demonic opposition does not prove that every instance of idolatry involving humans offering sacrifices on altars to idols was, has been, and continues to be always and only directly the result of their heeding demonic teaching.

You have made a claim that has to be proven. You have failed to do so at this point.