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Who has the authority to Baptise?
- Thread starter Mikey
- Start date
Mikey
Active Member
1. Biblically, we see that those who perform Christian baptism in the New Testament have been set apart by Christ for an office in the church (e.g., Peter, Paul, Phillip). Strictly speaking, the Great Commission, with its command to baptize, was given to the apostles, not to every believer indiscriminately. There is no evidence to show that private members baptized.
2. Theologically, we must take into account how Christ rules his church. Christ is the only king and head of the church. All authority is his authority. All rule is his rule. All grace is his grace. And yet, “as king of his church Christ has also instituted a specific office, the office of presbyter (elder), by which he governs his church” (Bavinck). As his under-shepherds, our Chief Shepherd rules in the church through the elders of the church (Acts 20:28; 1 Peter 5:1-4). The sacraments (or ordinances) involve the administration of grace and exercise of church power which belong to the office bearers of the church.
3. Exegetically, an appeal to the priesthood of all believers does not support the administration of baptism by every church member. The reference to the church as “a royal priesthood” affirms the holy nature of God’s people (1 Peter 2:9). It does not suggest that now in the New Testament there are no rites which may be performed only by ordained officers. For God’s people in the Old Testament were also called a kingdom of priests (Exodus 19:6) and they had a whole tribe of priests set aside for functions that only the priests could perform.
4. Practically, for baptism to be responsible there must be some church oversight. The examples I cited above are not advocating for baptisms willy-nilly whenever you and your buddy feel like getting wet. There must be a process of accountability and evaluation. Invariably, as Grudem points out, the pastor(s) of the church are likely involved in determining who can be baptized and who can baptize. If church officers superintend the process–and surely they must if baptism is to be anything other than a private ceremony of personal dedication–it stands to reason that they exercise their Christ-given authority in performed the baptism itself.
Full article:Who Can Baptize?
2. Theologically, we must take into account how Christ rules his church. Christ is the only king and head of the church. All authority is his authority. All rule is his rule. All grace is his grace. And yet, “as king of his church Christ has also instituted a specific office, the office of presbyter (elder), by which he governs his church” (Bavinck). As his under-shepherds, our Chief Shepherd rules in the church through the elders of the church (Acts 20:28; 1 Peter 5:1-4). The sacraments (or ordinances) involve the administration of grace and exercise of church power which belong to the office bearers of the church.
3. Exegetically, an appeal to the priesthood of all believers does not support the administration of baptism by every church member. The reference to the church as “a royal priesthood” affirms the holy nature of God’s people (1 Peter 2:9). It does not suggest that now in the New Testament there are no rites which may be performed only by ordained officers. For God’s people in the Old Testament were also called a kingdom of priests (Exodus 19:6) and they had a whole tribe of priests set aside for functions that only the priests could perform.
4. Practically, for baptism to be responsible there must be some church oversight. The examples I cited above are not advocating for baptisms willy-nilly whenever you and your buddy feel like getting wet. There must be a process of accountability and evaluation. Invariably, as Grudem points out, the pastor(s) of the church are likely involved in determining who can be baptized and who can baptize. If church officers superintend the process–and surely they must if baptism is to be anything other than a private ceremony of personal dedication–it stands to reason that they exercise their Christ-given authority in performed the baptism itself.
Full article:Who Can Baptize?
Last edited:
Mikey
Active Member
This judge-like authority to make official declarations on heaven’s behalf is something Jesus gives to gathered churches, not to individual Christians. Listen to Matthew 18:20: “For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there among them.” . Read the context carefully and you’ll see that Jesus is saying that his heavenly authority belongs to gathered churches (see especially verses 18–19). A church is a regular gathering of at least two or three people who together testify to Christ’s name. And Christ is present with such gatherings to authorize them to speak in his name.
We need all this to understand what’s happening in Matthew 28’s Great Commission. First, Jesus reminds us he’s the one with all authority in heaven and earth (v. 18). Next, he authorizes his disciples to baptize and to make disciples in the name of the Father, himself, and the Spirit (v. 19). Then he tells them to teach everything he has commanded, which is fulfilled in the ongoing teaching ministry of the local church (v. 20a). Finally, he reaffirms that his authoritative presence is there in that church: “And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age” (v. 20b). Matthew 28 very much has the stipulations and authorizations of Matthew 16 and 18 in the background. Jesus didn’t forget what he said back there, and neither should we.
So the question is: who has the authority to baptize? Any Christian? Well, if you’re on the missions frontier, where no other Christians exists, then you have no choice. Yes, you baptize. Since no local church yet exists, you are the church in that place. And Acts 8 provides a precedent for you if you are ever in this situation. At the same time, recall that Jesus explicitly ties his authoritative presence to churches—to two or three people (or two or three thousand) gathered in his name. Ordinarily, therefore, it is local churches who have the authority to baptize. Since baptism is performed by an individual, the church acts through a representative. But baptism is still a church’s act.
Full article: Baptism Is A Church’s Act
We need all this to understand what’s happening in Matthew 28’s Great Commission. First, Jesus reminds us he’s the one with all authority in heaven and earth (v. 18). Next, he authorizes his disciples to baptize and to make disciples in the name of the Father, himself, and the Spirit (v. 19). Then he tells them to teach everything he has commanded, which is fulfilled in the ongoing teaching ministry of the local church (v. 20a). Finally, he reaffirms that his authoritative presence is there in that church: “And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age” (v. 20b). Matthew 28 very much has the stipulations and authorizations of Matthew 16 and 18 in the background. Jesus didn’t forget what he said back there, and neither should we.
So the question is: who has the authority to baptize? Any Christian? Well, if you’re on the missions frontier, where no other Christians exists, then you have no choice. Yes, you baptize. Since no local church yet exists, you are the church in that place. And Acts 8 provides a precedent for you if you are ever in this situation. At the same time, recall that Jesus explicitly ties his authoritative presence to churches—to two or three people (or two or three thousand) gathered in his name. Ordinarily, therefore, it is local churches who have the authority to baptize. Since baptism is performed by an individual, the church acts through a representative. But baptism is still a church’s act.
Full article: Baptism Is A Church’s Act
Matthew 28:19
]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Technically, the command is given to all disciples, not just His apostles.
Thus born anew believers, baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are commanded to baptize directly or indirectly, new believers.
As Baptists, most believe our local assembly can designate those who baptize directly. The actual issue in my mind is who is allowed to evaluate candidates, and give their collective thumbs up, after determining evidence of spiritual rebirth.
]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Technically, the command is given to all disciples, not just His apostles.
Thus born anew believers, baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are commanded to baptize directly or indirectly, new believers.
As Baptists, most believe our local assembly can designate those who baptize directly. The actual issue in my mind is who is allowed to evaluate candidates, and give their collective thumbs up, after determining evidence of spiritual rebirth.
AVL1984
<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
I believe far too many believe that the authority to baptize has been left to the pastors and elders. I'm not so sure that this is the case. I've been in several churches and visited several denominations that believe that anyone who is saved and has been baptized themselves can baptize a new convert. In fact, in one of the Bible studies I attended a few years back with the Cowboy Church movement questioned this. I don't recall the author offhand, but, if I can find the book , I will list it..The author gives some pretty compelling evidence to show that the authority wasn't given to only the pastoral staff...
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
I am an independent, Missionary, Landmark Baptist.
We teach authority to carry out The Great Commission and to baptize, according to the Biblical doctrine of “church succession.”
This statement is regarding the only kind of church we believe the Bible teaches and that it is the only kind of church that is authorized and constructed to be able to carry out The Great Commission and to baptize, and to continue on, "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:"
and we believe that is the kind of properly organized local church assembly that was promised, "and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
"Bryan Station Baptist Church is a local, visible, called-out assembly of scripturally baptized believers, covenanted together according to the Biblical pattern of a “one member, one vote,” spirit-led democracy; whose purpose is the carrying out of the Great Commission of Matthew 28:16-20.
"The Bible teaches that only such a church as this is authorized and constructed to be able to do so.
"Our authority came, according to the Biblical doctrine of “church succession,” through particular New England “separate” Baptists who had sought out existing Baptist churches for this arm of authority. Such were Elders Shubeal Sterns and Daniel Marshall who, once they were saved, sought out Baptist Baptism; Shubeal Sterns at the Baptist Church at Toland, Connecticut on May 20, 1751; and Daniel Marshall from Winsor, Connecticut, saved and burdened to preach, came to Winchester, Virginia where he became convinced of the soundness of Baptist doctrine and was immersed at the age of forty-eight, etc., etc.
Our church obtained authority from "Spotsylvania, Va. – the Spotsylvania Baptist Church, pastored by Elder Lewis Craig. And it is from this church, when it became the famous “Traveling Church” in September of 1781, when Lewis Craig led the whole church over the Cumberland Gap to settle in the blue grass region of Central Kentucky, that the authority for our Bryan Station Baptist Church came, organized in 1786."
Although J.R. Graves, of "Landmark Baptist" fame was born in 1820, we had received our "Landmark"-type authority, by succession in 1786 (34 years before Graves was born; see:
A STUDY OF THE ANTECEDENTS OF LANDMARKISM
By LeRoy B. Hogue).
We believe in chain-link succession by faith and Bible necessity, however, God has not given us a copy of a Historical record or Pedigree, of such, that we don't need. Simply, the inspired Bible record.
We take the authority to carry out The Great Commission, to baptize, and to teach all things, and our history very seriously, so we attempt to articulate our position on these things.
Oh yeah, and we believe the Bible.
We do not see a 'big universal church' thing in the Bible and so not receiving Alien Baptism, having Open Communion, and church Discipline are also important to us, whereas others do not.
As it says below, "the historic definition of Landmarkism, that it is the church alone, which is authorized in the Great Commission: The argument is that scriptural authority (to baptize, therefore) emanates under God, from a gospel church."
What is Biblical Church Constitution?
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." – Mt. 28:19, 20
"The thesis of this book is that Mathew 28:20 is authority to gather baptized believers (“them”) into a covenant commitment to observe all things commanded by Christ as a New Testament congregation, and that authority is given to disciples (“ye”) who already exist in church capacity.
" It is the indisputable consequence of both the English and Greek grammar found in the Great Commission, that Christ has grammatically placed those identified as “ye…you” in a horizontal instrumental position between Himself and baptized believers (“them”), so that they are the only authorized administrator of Matthew 28:19-20.
"Hence, direct vertical authority is denied by this indisputable fact of grammar.
"It is the indisputable conclusion of the historic definition of Landmarkism, that it is the church alone, which is authorized in the Great Commission: The argument is that scriptural authority emanates under God, from a gospel church. – William Cathcart, The Baptist Encyclopedia, “Landmarkism” Vol. 2, pp. 731-732, The Electronic Edition of Baptist History, Ver. 1.0
"Therefore, both the Biblical text and the historic definition of Landmarkism demand the Great Commission was given to a horizontal instrumental authorized administrator (Alan's note: the disciples, having been scripturally baptized and assembled into an Organized-Organism that Jesus called, "My church". In other words, the Great Commission was given to Jesus Divinely Originated church, as a perpetual Divine Institution, and then the authorized administrator of baptism is the kind of churches Jesus built and promised to be with, until the end of the age.)
"These facts repudiate immediate and direct authority between Christ and “them” (baptized but unchurched believers) in Matthew 28:19-20.
1. The Point of debate is Matthew 28:20
"So the actual point of debate between the positions of Authorized Church Constitution (ACC) and Direct Authority (DA) is the correct interpretation of Matthew 28:20.
"Two issues must be resolved concerning this passage of scripture.
"The first issue is, whether or not, Matthew 28:20 is authority to bring baptized believers, existing outside of church capacity (v. 19 “them”), into a teaching/observing covenant keeping church relationship with Christ (v. 20; Acts 2:40-41)?
"The second issue is, if that is so, then who is authorized to do that?
"Does that authority reside in any two or three baptized churched or unchurched believers, or only in baptized believers acting in church capacity (“go ye”), as demanded by historic Landmarkism?
"Remember, the historic definition of Landmarkism repudiates any authorized administer of the Great Commission but “the churches.”
"Direct Authority advocates are forced to deny that Matthew 28:19-20 establishes any kind of horizontal administrative authority (“go ye”) to evangelize, baptize and bring such baptized materials into a teaching observing assembly (v. 19).
"If the DA advocates admit that the plural “ye” in Matthew 28:19 is the church, rather than any two or three baptized unchurched believers, then they have lost the debate, and their position is proven to be unscriptural.
"William Cathcart in his “Baptist Encyclopedia” under “Landmarkism” gives the following fuller definition of historic “Landmarkism.
"The doctrine of Landmarkism is that baptism and church membership precede the preaching of the gospel, even as they precede communion at the Lord’s Table.
"The argument is that Scriptural authority to preach emanates, under God, from a gospel church; that as “a visible church is a congregation of baptized believers,” etc., it follows that no Pedobaptist organization is a church in the Scriptural sense of the term and that therefore Scriptural authority to preach cannot proceed from such an organization.
"Hence the non-recognition of Pedobaptist ministers, who are not interfered with, but simply let alone. – William Cathcart, Baptist Encyclopedia (Landmarkism) 1881 – emphasis mine Indeed, even Direct Authority advocates admit that it is an existing New Testament church alone that is authorized to administer baptism in this commission!!
"Hence, DA is a self-contradiction as it argues that the Great Commission authorizes only the church to administer baptism but at the same time denies there is an authorized horizontal administrator of this commission.
"Both assertions cannot be true."
con't
We teach authority to carry out The Great Commission and to baptize, according to the Biblical doctrine of “church succession.”
This statement is regarding the only kind of church we believe the Bible teaches and that it is the only kind of church that is authorized and constructed to be able to carry out The Great Commission and to baptize, and to continue on, "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:"
and we believe that is the kind of properly organized local church assembly that was promised, "and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
"Bryan Station Baptist Church is a local, visible, called-out assembly of scripturally baptized believers, covenanted together according to the Biblical pattern of a “one member, one vote,” spirit-led democracy; whose purpose is the carrying out of the Great Commission of Matthew 28:16-20.
"The Bible teaches that only such a church as this is authorized and constructed to be able to do so.
"Our authority came, according to the Biblical doctrine of “church succession,” through particular New England “separate” Baptists who had sought out existing Baptist churches for this arm of authority. Such were Elders Shubeal Sterns and Daniel Marshall who, once they were saved, sought out Baptist Baptism; Shubeal Sterns at the Baptist Church at Toland, Connecticut on May 20, 1751; and Daniel Marshall from Winsor, Connecticut, saved and burdened to preach, came to Winchester, Virginia where he became convinced of the soundness of Baptist doctrine and was immersed at the age of forty-eight, etc., etc.
Our church obtained authority from "Spotsylvania, Va. – the Spotsylvania Baptist Church, pastored by Elder Lewis Craig. And it is from this church, when it became the famous “Traveling Church” in September of 1781, when Lewis Craig led the whole church over the Cumberland Gap to settle in the blue grass region of Central Kentucky, that the authority for our Bryan Station Baptist Church came, organized in 1786."
Although J.R. Graves, of "Landmark Baptist" fame was born in 1820, we had received our "Landmark"-type authority, by succession in 1786 (34 years before Graves was born; see:
A STUDY OF THE ANTECEDENTS OF LANDMARKISM
By LeRoy B. Hogue).
We believe in chain-link succession by faith and Bible necessity, however, God has not given us a copy of a Historical record or Pedigree, of such, that we don't need. Simply, the inspired Bible record.
We take the authority to carry out The Great Commission, to baptize, and to teach all things, and our history very seriously, so we attempt to articulate our position on these things.
Oh yeah, and we believe the Bible.
We do not see a 'big universal church' thing in the Bible and so not receiving Alien Baptism, having Open Communion, and church Discipline are also important to us, whereas others do not.
As it says below, "the historic definition of Landmarkism, that it is the church alone, which is authorized in the Great Commission: The argument is that scriptural authority (to baptize, therefore) emanates under God, from a gospel church."
What is Biblical Church Constitution?
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." – Mt. 28:19, 20
"The thesis of this book is that Mathew 28:20 is authority to gather baptized believers (“them”) into a covenant commitment to observe all things commanded by Christ as a New Testament congregation, and that authority is given to disciples (“ye”) who already exist in church capacity.
" It is the indisputable consequence of both the English and Greek grammar found in the Great Commission, that Christ has grammatically placed those identified as “ye…you” in a horizontal instrumental position between Himself and baptized believers (“them”), so that they are the only authorized administrator of Matthew 28:19-20.
"Hence, direct vertical authority is denied by this indisputable fact of grammar.
"It is the indisputable conclusion of the historic definition of Landmarkism, that it is the church alone, which is authorized in the Great Commission: The argument is that scriptural authority emanates under God, from a gospel church. – William Cathcart, The Baptist Encyclopedia, “Landmarkism” Vol. 2, pp. 731-732, The Electronic Edition of Baptist History, Ver. 1.0
"Therefore, both the Biblical text and the historic definition of Landmarkism demand the Great Commission was given to a horizontal instrumental authorized administrator (Alan's note: the disciples, having been scripturally baptized and assembled into an Organized-Organism that Jesus called, "My church". In other words, the Great Commission was given to Jesus Divinely Originated church, as a perpetual Divine Institution, and then the authorized administrator of baptism is the kind of churches Jesus built and promised to be with, until the end of the age.)
"These facts repudiate immediate and direct authority between Christ and “them” (baptized but unchurched believers) in Matthew 28:19-20.
1. The Point of debate is Matthew 28:20
"So the actual point of debate between the positions of Authorized Church Constitution (ACC) and Direct Authority (DA) is the correct interpretation of Matthew 28:20.
"Two issues must be resolved concerning this passage of scripture.
"The first issue is, whether or not, Matthew 28:20 is authority to bring baptized believers, existing outside of church capacity (v. 19 “them”), into a teaching/observing covenant keeping church relationship with Christ (v. 20; Acts 2:40-41)?
"The second issue is, if that is so, then who is authorized to do that?
"Does that authority reside in any two or three baptized churched or unchurched believers, or only in baptized believers acting in church capacity (“go ye”), as demanded by historic Landmarkism?
"Remember, the historic definition of Landmarkism repudiates any authorized administer of the Great Commission but “the churches.”
"Direct Authority advocates are forced to deny that Matthew 28:19-20 establishes any kind of horizontal administrative authority (“go ye”) to evangelize, baptize and bring such baptized materials into a teaching observing assembly (v. 19).
"If the DA advocates admit that the plural “ye” in Matthew 28:19 is the church, rather than any two or three baptized unchurched believers, then they have lost the debate, and their position is proven to be unscriptural.
"William Cathcart in his “Baptist Encyclopedia” under “Landmarkism” gives the following fuller definition of historic “Landmarkism.
"The doctrine of Landmarkism is that baptism and church membership precede the preaching of the gospel, even as they precede communion at the Lord’s Table.
"The argument is that Scriptural authority to preach emanates, under God, from a gospel church; that as “a visible church is a congregation of baptized believers,” etc., it follows that no Pedobaptist organization is a church in the Scriptural sense of the term and that therefore Scriptural authority to preach cannot proceed from such an organization.
"Hence the non-recognition of Pedobaptist ministers, who are not interfered with, but simply let alone. – William Cathcart, Baptist Encyclopedia (Landmarkism) 1881 – emphasis mine Indeed, even Direct Authority advocates admit that it is an existing New Testament church alone that is authorized to administer baptism in this commission!!
"Hence, DA is a self-contradiction as it argues that the Great Commission authorizes only the church to administer baptism but at the same time denies there is an authorized horizontal administrator of this commission.
"Both assertions cannot be true."
con't
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
2. The Biblical Qualifications for Constitution
"Both sides agree that no unqualified group of people should be recognized as a true church or recognized to possess church authority.
"Both sides agree that the properly qualified candidates for church constitution are professed believers baptized by a preexisting New Testament church who are united in the same faith and order with previous New Testament churches.
"Hence, such qualified materials have already been baptized into the membership of a preexisting church.
"The issue arises when such baptized church members find themselves in an unchurched condition, either due to church discipline or due to their church disbanding or a split.
"Simply moving away from the church wherein the membership consists does not remove them from under the authority of that church.
"However, in regard to the three former states (under discipline, disbanded, split), from whence do they obtain authority to organize into a church?
"DA advocates argue that no preexisting church, council, or presbytery can convey church authority.
"However, this is a straw man argument as both sides agree that previous to the act of the church's constitution these baptized believers are not a church, and therefore are without “church’ authority.
"Church authority belongs to an existing church rather than to nonchurch or unchurched baptized believers.
"Hence, a church must first exist for church authority to exist.
"Prior to its existence, there is no church authority found in unchurched persons.
"The real issue is from whence do these unchurched baptized believers obtain authority to meet for the purpose to become a church with church authority.
"DA advocates argue that authority to meet and organize exists by virtue of scriptural baptism.
"In other words, they believe that authority to carry out all aspects of the Great Commission is conveyed in the act of scriptural baptism, which is directly contradictory to the historic interpretation of Matthew 28:19-20 which demands that only an existing church can administer this commission.
"Both historical Landmarkism and the Scriptures deny this DA interpretation of Matthew 28:19-20.
"Both historical Landmarkism and the scriptures plainly teach that only an existing church has authority to carry out all aspects of the Great Commission including gathering baptized believers into a teaching assembly (Mt. 28:20; Acts 2:40-41).
"The authority to organize into a New Testament church is derived from a preexisting New Testament church.
"Obtaining “church authority” occurs only after a group of baptized believers becomes a church.
"Authority to constitute into such a church falls under the authorized administrator of the Great Commission – “ye” as a preexisting church.
"a. An Authorized administrator –
"Those authorized to administer the Great Commission are identified by the plural pronoun “ye” in Matthew 28:19-20.
"This is a horizontal and instrumental administrator that is placed between Christ and “teach them” (baptized believers) in the Great Commission.
"This is the irrefutable grammar.
"b. An authorized orderly process for the preparation of,
and constitution of a church.
"First, they must be gospel converts (v. 19a).
"Second, they must be scripturally baptized (v. 19b).
"Third, they must be gathered in covenant commitment to teach and observe the same faith and order of Jesus Christ (v. 20).
"This orderly process is what earlier Baptists referred to as gospel church order or regular church order, as this order begins with the gospel and concludes with bringing “them” (baptized believers) together into a teaching/observing assembled relationship with Christ.
"It is called regular order because it is the only practice followed by all true churches of Christ.
"As you can see, becoming a church must begin with proper qualified materials which are produced by a horizontal administrator (“ye” = church), that is authorized to prepare these materials (“them” = baptized believers).
"Both sides agree that it is only a preexisting church that is authorized to prepare material for church constitution (baptism).
"Significantly, it is this same administrative authority (“go ye”) which prepares the materials, that is authorized by Christ to also assemble “them” or gather them into a teaching/observing covenant-keeping relationship with Christ.
"That is by definition church constitution.
"Therefore, baptized believers (“teach them”) existing outside of church capacity have never been authorized by Christ to administer any aspect of this commission, including the last aspect which is assembling baptized believers (“teach them”) into a teaching/observing covenant-keeping relationship with Christ.
"However, the Direct Authority position denies and reverses the order given in the Great Commission.
"They deny that Christ has established any horizontal and/or instrumental administrative authority (“go ye”) in church capacity to bring baptized believers (“them”) into regular church relationship with Christ.
"They demand that those identified as “them” (baptized believers) in the Great Commission (who are in non-church capacity) have direct authority from Christ to bring themselves into this relationship with Christ.
"The pronoun “ye” denies any kind of self-evangelism, self-baptism or self-constitution by “them.”
3. The Authorized Custodian of the Keys
"The contextual basis for interpreting “go ye” in Matthew 28:19-20 as the existing church of Jesus Christ, is the necessary inference that making disciples, as described in Matthew 28:19-20, has previously been conferred upon the church by Christ (Mt. 18:17-18) as a body of plural spiritual stones (1 Pet. 2:5 characterized by Peter’s name in Mt. 16:18-19).
"The Authorized Church Constitution position is based upon the Biblical premise that only the New Testament congregation (“go ye” in Mathew 28:19-20) is entrusted with the keys of the kingdom, rather than just two or three baptized believers (“teach them” in Matthew 28:19-20) in non-church capacity or the ordained office.
"The keys of the kingdom symbolize the administrative authority to further the full work of God’s kingdom on earth, as summarized in the Great Commission (Mt. 18:17; 28:19-20).
"No other entity has been given authority to administer the keys of the kingdom.
"This kingdom authority is not only inclusive of preaching the gospel to all nations, and baptizing believers (Mt. 28:19), but gathering them together into a covenant relationship for the express purpose to observe all things Christ commanded – Matt. 28:20.
"Matthew 19:20 is gathering baptized believers into a covenant commitment to observe “all things” Christ commanded.
"The essence of the church's constitution is baptized believers brought together (united) into a covenant relationship with Christ to both teach and observe all things Christ commanded.
"Hence, the church's constitution is inherently part of the Great Commission."
next in the booklet:
https://static.secure.website/wscfus/3107401/uploads/Church_Authority_book2.pdf
4. The Various Ways of Church Assimilation,
5. The Biblical Pattern for Constitution,
6. The Point of Constitution in the Biblical Pattern,
7. The Great Commission is Authority for Constitution,
Matthew 18:20 – The Issue
What Matthew 18:20 Really Teaches
Matthew 28:19-20 – The Issue
Matthew 28:19-20 and Regular Church Order?
Matthew 28:20 and Church Authorized Constitution
Matthew 28:19-20 and Organic Church Succession
Acts 8-11 and the Great Commission
Acts 13:1-4 and The Great Commission
"Both sides agree that no unqualified group of people should be recognized as a true church or recognized to possess church authority.
"Both sides agree that the properly qualified candidates for church constitution are professed believers baptized by a preexisting New Testament church who are united in the same faith and order with previous New Testament churches.
"Hence, such qualified materials have already been baptized into the membership of a preexisting church.
"The issue arises when such baptized church members find themselves in an unchurched condition, either due to church discipline or due to their church disbanding or a split.
"Simply moving away from the church wherein the membership consists does not remove them from under the authority of that church.
"However, in regard to the three former states (under discipline, disbanded, split), from whence do they obtain authority to organize into a church?
"DA advocates argue that no preexisting church, council, or presbytery can convey church authority.
"However, this is a straw man argument as both sides agree that previous to the act of the church's constitution these baptized believers are not a church, and therefore are without “church’ authority.
"Church authority belongs to an existing church rather than to nonchurch or unchurched baptized believers.
"Hence, a church must first exist for church authority to exist.
"Prior to its existence, there is no church authority found in unchurched persons.
"The real issue is from whence do these unchurched baptized believers obtain authority to meet for the purpose to become a church with church authority.
"DA advocates argue that authority to meet and organize exists by virtue of scriptural baptism.
"In other words, they believe that authority to carry out all aspects of the Great Commission is conveyed in the act of scriptural baptism, which is directly contradictory to the historic interpretation of Matthew 28:19-20 which demands that only an existing church can administer this commission.
"Both historical Landmarkism and the Scriptures deny this DA interpretation of Matthew 28:19-20.
"Both historical Landmarkism and the scriptures plainly teach that only an existing church has authority to carry out all aspects of the Great Commission including gathering baptized believers into a teaching assembly (Mt. 28:20; Acts 2:40-41).
"The authority to organize into a New Testament church is derived from a preexisting New Testament church.
"Obtaining “church authority” occurs only after a group of baptized believers becomes a church.
"Authority to constitute into such a church falls under the authorized administrator of the Great Commission – “ye” as a preexisting church.
"a. An Authorized administrator –
"Those authorized to administer the Great Commission are identified by the plural pronoun “ye” in Matthew 28:19-20.
"This is a horizontal and instrumental administrator that is placed between Christ and “teach them” (baptized believers) in the Great Commission.
"This is the irrefutable grammar.
"b. An authorized orderly process for the preparation of,
and constitution of a church.
"First, they must be gospel converts (v. 19a).
"Second, they must be scripturally baptized (v. 19b).
"Third, they must be gathered in covenant commitment to teach and observe the same faith and order of Jesus Christ (v. 20).
"This orderly process is what earlier Baptists referred to as gospel church order or regular church order, as this order begins with the gospel and concludes with bringing “them” (baptized believers) together into a teaching/observing assembled relationship with Christ.
"It is called regular order because it is the only practice followed by all true churches of Christ.
"As you can see, becoming a church must begin with proper qualified materials which are produced by a horizontal administrator (“ye” = church), that is authorized to prepare these materials (“them” = baptized believers).
"Both sides agree that it is only a preexisting church that is authorized to prepare material for church constitution (baptism).
"Significantly, it is this same administrative authority (“go ye”) which prepares the materials, that is authorized by Christ to also assemble “them” or gather them into a teaching/observing covenant-keeping relationship with Christ.
"That is by definition church constitution.
"Therefore, baptized believers (“teach them”) existing outside of church capacity have never been authorized by Christ to administer any aspect of this commission, including the last aspect which is assembling baptized believers (“teach them”) into a teaching/observing covenant-keeping relationship with Christ.
"However, the Direct Authority position denies and reverses the order given in the Great Commission.
"They deny that Christ has established any horizontal and/or instrumental administrative authority (“go ye”) in church capacity to bring baptized believers (“them”) into regular church relationship with Christ.
"They demand that those identified as “them” (baptized believers) in the Great Commission (who are in non-church capacity) have direct authority from Christ to bring themselves into this relationship with Christ.
"The pronoun “ye” denies any kind of self-evangelism, self-baptism or self-constitution by “them.”
3. The Authorized Custodian of the Keys
"The contextual basis for interpreting “go ye” in Matthew 28:19-20 as the existing church of Jesus Christ, is the necessary inference that making disciples, as described in Matthew 28:19-20, has previously been conferred upon the church by Christ (Mt. 18:17-18) as a body of plural spiritual stones (1 Pet. 2:5 characterized by Peter’s name in Mt. 16:18-19).
"The Authorized Church Constitution position is based upon the Biblical premise that only the New Testament congregation (“go ye” in Mathew 28:19-20) is entrusted with the keys of the kingdom, rather than just two or three baptized believers (“teach them” in Matthew 28:19-20) in non-church capacity or the ordained office.
"The keys of the kingdom symbolize the administrative authority to further the full work of God’s kingdom on earth, as summarized in the Great Commission (Mt. 18:17; 28:19-20).
"No other entity has been given authority to administer the keys of the kingdom.
"This kingdom authority is not only inclusive of preaching the gospel to all nations, and baptizing believers (Mt. 28:19), but gathering them together into a covenant relationship for the express purpose to observe all things Christ commanded – Matt. 28:20.
"Matthew 19:20 is gathering baptized believers into a covenant commitment to observe “all things” Christ commanded.
"The essence of the church's constitution is baptized believers brought together (united) into a covenant relationship with Christ to both teach and observe all things Christ commanded.
"Hence, the church's constitution is inherently part of the Great Commission."
next in the booklet:
https://static.secure.website/wscfus/3107401/uploads/Church_Authority_book2.pdf
4. The Various Ways of Church Assimilation,
5. The Biblical Pattern for Constitution,
6. The Point of Constitution in the Biblical Pattern,
7. The Great Commission is Authority for Constitution,
Matthew 18:20 – The Issue
What Matthew 18:20 Really Teaches
Matthew 28:19-20 – The Issue
Matthew 28:19-20 and Regular Church Order?
Matthew 28:20 and Church Authorized Constitution
Matthew 28:19-20 and Organic Church Succession
Acts 8-11 and the Great Commission
Acts 13:1-4 and The Great Commission
AVL1984
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No wonder we don't see eye to eye on many things....I was in the landmark movement and was a lay preacher for the Baptist Missionary Association of Illinois and Indiana. But, it got to be where I couldn't and wouldn't follow the "Trail of Blood" nonsense....And when I mentioned in another thread about the bloviation..your posts here are just what I was referring to. I'm sure glad that the Apostle Paul liked preaching and teaching with "great plainness of speech."
The Baptisms in Acts were several hundred people.
had only 10-12 people done them, they would have taken hours. Just thinking from a practical view here. I’m not sure what I think about it and I’ve been on it for a loooong time
had only 10-12 people done them, they would have taken hours. Just thinking from a practical view here. I’m not sure what I think about it and I’ve been on it for a loooong time
It would be great if the scripture provided some clear 'how to' instructions.