Was Adam Created with what we call "Spiritual life"?

[JonC]

This is a continuation of an older thread

My position is that Adam was created flesh, not spirit.

This means Adam was created with a human body, a human spirit and (I believe) a human soul.

But it also means that Adam was not created equal to Christ in the spiritual sense. Adam still needed a Savior as evidenced by Adam transgressing God's command.

By "spirit vs flesh" I am leaning on the biblical use (as Jesus used "flesh" and "spirit"). I hope that will help to avoid misinterpretations by those less aware of the terms in Scripture.

Here is the old thread :

Spiritual life and the myth Adam (and man) of dying spiritually

 

[Alan Gross]

Was there anything not inundated with the Spirit of God, prior to Adam's fall?

Like a cow?

Or a flower?

 

[JonC]

I guess the first thing would be to define Spiritual life.

I define Spiritual Life as Christ (He is the Life, Christ in us, born of the Spirit, ect.).

Then we should consider if spiritual life is a temporary thing (can one be spiritually alive and then die spiritually).

 

[canadyjd]

Double post

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Triple post:

peace to you

 

[percho]

From Hebrews 2:9
and him who was made some little less than messengers we see -- Jesus

Why?
The answer of the Holy Spirit.

From Hebrews 2:9
because of the suffering of the death,

What death? The death the devil had/has the the power thereof? See Hebrews 2:14 Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through [the] death he might destroy him having the power of [the] death -- that is, the devil --

The first man Adam who became a living soul; Why was he also made a little lower than the angels [messengers] [ 'ĕlōhîm in Psalms 8:5] Why? Do you think the power of the death was lurking? How long had the power of the death been hanging around? I wonder if it had been exercised before God made the man a little lower than, umm God, the angels, messengers?

1 Peter 1:18-20 having known that, not with corruptible things -- silver or gold -- were ye redeemed from your foolish behaviour delivered by fathers, [?Adam?] but with precious blood, [? What, is in the blood that gives soul to the flesh?] as of a lamb unblemished and unspotted -- Christ's -- foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, and manifested in the last times because of you,

ACTS 15:18 'Known from the ages to God are all His works;

See my posts relative to this age and or other ages. How long has the devil been around?

The yet God of peace shall be crushing Satan under your feet in swiftness From Romans 16:20
From Hebrews 2:14 through the death
Into the death and out of death, 1 Cor 15:23 each in his own order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

The destruction of the devil and his works was planned before the man was created.

There is life and there is death...

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 at that moment in need of being born from above.

 

[JonC]

Triple post:

peace to you

Yea.....cause whatever I post is worth reading thrice.

 

[canadyjd]

Yea.....cause whatever I post is worth reading thrice.

Actually, after I posted a well thought out, and brilliant response to the OP, it appeared three times. I deleted the last two. After that, the first disappeared as well.

I figured a moderator took it to study and learn from the insights therein.

It was so well written, I doubt I could reproduce it, so I’ll be content to read what others post

peace to you

 

[Deacon]

It was so well written, I doubt I could reproduce it, so I’ll be content to read what others post
peace to you

Been there, done that.
Man, I hate when that happens!

Rob

 

[JonC]

Another point (but different) is how many parts a man is composed of.

I said before that Adam was created as a human being, with a human body and soul. But I've also said body, soul, and spirit.

There are two primary views - body & soul and body, soul, & spirit. @Iconoclast mentioned he has heard that some believe Adam was created just a body (no soul or spirit).

I cannot determine which is correct (except Adam being just a body without a soul or spirit is definitely wrong).

I lean towards Adam (and man) being three parts, but some insist soul and spirit are the same (I am not sure).

But my view is that Adam was created a human being (body, soul, and spirit) yet not with spiritual life as we have spiritual life in Christ Jesus.

 

[canadyjd]

Another point (but different) is how many parts a man is composed of.

I said before that Adam was created as a human being, with a human body and soul. But I've also said body, soul, and spirit.

There are two primary views - body & soul and body, soul, & spirit. @Iconoclast mentioned he has heard that some believe Adam was created just a body (no soul or spirit).

I cannot determine which is correct (except Adam being just a body without a soul or spirit is definitely wrong).

I lean towards Adam (and man) being three parts, but some insist soul and spirit are the same (I am not sure).

But my view is that Adam was created a human being (body, soul, and spirit) yet not with spiritual life as we have spiritual life in Christ Jesus.

Another interesting subject.

If you look at the Genesis passage it says…

1. God created Adam from the dust of the ground…(flesh)

2. God breathed life into Adam (spirit: breath/wind/spirit use the same word)

3. Adam became a living soul…

Based on the way it is presented, imo, humans are made up of flesh and spirit and together he is considered a “soul”.
So; two parts together considered to be a soul.

It doesn’t help that soul/spirit are used interchangeably at times in scripture, so it is easy to see why some favor the 3 part idea.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Another interesting subject.

If you look at the Genesis passage it says…

1. God created Adam from the dust of the ground…(flesh)

2. God breathed life into Adam (spirit: breath/wind/spirit use the same word)

3. Adam became a living soul…

Based on the way it is presented, imo, humans are made up of flesh and spirit and together he is considered a “soul”.
So; two parts together considered to be a soul.

It doesn’t help that soul/spirit are used interchangeably at times in scripture, so it is easy to see why some favor the 3 part idea.

peace to you

Good point.

There are several passages that use spirit to mean different things (ghost, perhaps soul, the Spirit and spiritual life, a component of natural man that is dead spiritually, etc ).

We could beg @John of Japan to let us know if these are the same words. He is our resident genius.

(Just go with it, @canadyjd ....if we flatter him enough he may give us the info). If that don't work we can pester him until he gives in.

 

[canadyjd]

Good point.

There are several passages that use spirit to mean different things (ghost, perhaps soul, the Spirit and spiritual life, a component of natural man that is dead spiritually, etc ).

We could beg @John of Japan to let us know if these are the same words. He is our resident genius.

(Just go with it, @canadyjd ....if we flatter him enough he may give us the info). If that don't work we can pester him until he gives in.

I very much respect JoJ. I don’t always agree (surprise, right?) but he is a library of scriptural knowledge. I would like to see what he had to say.

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

^ @John of Japan ^

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Whatever else may be said, mankind being created in the image of God should be at the fore. Genesis 1:26-27:

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.​

 

[37818]

1) Genesis 2:7, ". . . And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. . . ."

2) Proverbs 20:27, "The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly."

3) John 4:24, ". . . God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. . . ."

4) Ecclesiastes 12:7, ". . . Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. . . ."

 

[percho]

נִשְׁמַת־רוּחַ חַיִּים בְּאַפָּיו מִכֹּל

breath of spirit of lives in nostrils of him - From Gen 7:22

If I understand correctly, spirit of lives, is what God breathed into the nostrils of the flesh made from the ground.

Then what was made from the ground [flesh] became soul, living.

Spirit of lives Into the nostrils to the lungs through the capillaries into the blood. Thus Lev. !7:11

כִּי נֶפֶשׁ הַבָּשָׂר בַּדָּם הִוא
That soul of the flesh in the blood -she- ?Spirit of lives?

What did Jesus the Christ shed for OUR sins to make atonement? What did he commit unto the hands of the Father, of him?
Dying did Jesus the Christ, die? Did the Spirit return to God who gave it? Does Jesus call the Father his God?

 

[37818]

What did Jesus the Christ shed for OUR sins to make atonement?

Isaiah 53:12, John 19:28.

What did he commit unto the hands of the Father, of him?

Ecclesiastes 12:7,
Luke 23:46.

Dying did Jesus the Christ, die?

Luke 23:26.

Did the Spirit return to God who gave it?

Ecclesiastes 12:7,
Luke 23:46.

Does Jesus call the Father his God?

John 20:17.

 

[John of Japan]

Wow! Thanks for the kind words from several of you. It's the end of the semester and I've been teaching a two week block on Eschatology, so haven't been here all week.

Interestingly enough, the Hebrew (ruach) and Greek (pneuma) words for "spirit" have similar range of meaning. Both can mean "spirit" (human or otherwise) or "wind." So Jesus is punning in John 3:8!

Concerning "spirit" and "flesh," I don't see an OT parallel. to the NT. The OT does not use "flesh" for the human "sin nature" as does the NT. Also, the NT has a different word for "body" (soma). However, I am a trichotomist like JonC, and believe that Adam was body (physical), soul (personality, creativity, communication with other humans, etc.), and spirit (communication with God.

The Hebrew word for "flesh" (basar) has a different range of meaning than the Greek word (sarkos). It usually means the physical body, but can be used metaphorically for all humans.

Got to run!

 

[Salty]

...I am a trichotomist like JonC, and believe that Adam was body (physical), soul (personality, creativity, communication with other humans, etc.), and spirit (communication with God. ...!

John of Japan - serious question here --- you stated that the soul is personality... w/other humans) (and I hope, that I am not going off OP) But - do animals have souls? that is they do have personality .... and communication with other animals?

I have always been taught:
A) plants - only have a body
B) Animals - have a body and soul
C) Humans (even JonC) have a body, soul and Spirit.

 

[JonC]

C) Humans (even JonC) have a body, soul and Spirit.

. . . wait . . .