A White Stone

Why don't you ask us an easy question Glen?

Like, 'when was the book of Revelation written?'

Revelation 2:17 Commentaries: He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.' (biblehub.com)

 

The 'hidden manna'- "Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies". Oh, how many times have you rejoiced within from the knowledge of the gospel while surrounded with unbelievers, especially at work, on the job?

A white stone - reminds me of "though your sins be as scarlet they shall be white as snow".

I seriously doubt mine will be 'redneck'. Probably more like 'hardhead'.

 

Why did you post this in the C & A Forum?

 

For starters what is promised is not limited to tha church of Pergamos. See 1 John 5:4-5 and Revelation 21:7.

". . . He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; . . ."

 

My first reference Bible gave the following answer for the ", . . white stone . . . ."


"Revelation 2:17
a white stone



Signifies approval."

 

Everything in the Bible points to Jesus as a type or metaphor.

The hidden manna is Jesus, the bread of life.
The white stone is Jesus, the "stone of help" (our Ebenezer).

*1 Samuel 7:12*
Then Samuel took a stone and set it up between Mizpah and Shen and called its name Ebenezer; for he said, “Till now the Lord has helped us.”

 

You mean like "Christocentric Theology"? The "Big Nothing Burger"?

Christocentric Theology (New Covenant Theology): The Big Nothing Burger | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com)

John 5:39

Luke 24:27

 

Revelation 2 [NLT] (… because sometimes the right tool for the job is the easiest to understand)

14 “But I have a few complaints against you. You tolerate some among you whose teaching is like that of Balaam, who showed Balak how to trip up the people of Israel. He taught them to sin by eating food offered to idols and by committing sexual sin. 15 In a similar way, you have some Nicolaitans among you who follow the same teaching. 16 Repent of your sin, or I will come to you suddenly and fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

17 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches. To everyone who is victorious I will give some of the manna that has been hidden away in heaven. And I will give to each one a white stone, and on the stone will be engraved a new name that no one understands except the one who receives it.​

So my personal observations:

• There is a contrast between those that teach (and do) error and those with “an ear to hear” that listen to the Spirit.
• This “mana” (food from God) is hidden away in heaven and Christ gives to those that are victorious.
  • Our VICTORY is in CHRIST, so that would suggest the saints (His Sheep) as distinct from the “tares” of the earlier paragraph.
  • I am reminded of Jesus statement “my food and drink is to do the will of Him who sent me” [John 4:34].
  • I think of the Holy Spirit as “mana” that was formerly hidden away in Heaven and is now sent to feed those that belong to Jesus.
• A “white” stone makes me think of PURITY, first and foremost.
  • I am also reminded of the verse about God removing our “heart of stone” to give us a “heart of flesh” (Ezekiel 36:26) (which would have already happened for the believers with “ears to hear”, and the promise to “write His law on the their hearts” (Jeremiah 31:33).
  • The name written on the stone also recalls to my mind the stones that the Priest wore with the names of the 12 tribes carved into them as a perpetual reminder of the promise and covenant with God … this is like a new personal covenant between each of them and God. A pledge that neither will forget the other.

Is it just for Pergamos? Yes and no.
It seems to describe a uniquely personal relationship between our Creator and each person that belongs to Him with “rewards” that commemorate what THEY were faithful with and through. So I would not expect to be acknowledged for enduring what I was spared from, but I expect that God will be just as personal with EACH AND EVERY ONE of His Children. If a human father knows how to acknowledge each child uniquely, why would GOD be less capable?

Those are my thoughts.
Arthur (just some hack that read his bible)

 

I know some things about Revelation, and one is that I like Sam Storms, because he knows alot about Revelation.

So does Greg Beale whom he mentions.

I mean, Greg Beale says the new name is, "the intimate eschatological presence of God and Christ with his people”.

Then, Sam Storms says what Paul and Peter have on it:

"Paul said it best when he declared that “your life is hidden with Christ in God” (Colossians 3:3b).

"Peter echoed much the same thing in saying that we have “an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven” for us (1 Peter 1:4)."


Here is some of what they say;

from: 20) A New Name Written Down in Glory (Revelation 2:17)

...
"White stones were often used as tokens of membership or tickets for admission to public festivals.

"If this is the background for the text, the white stone may be a symbol for the believer’s admission to the messianic feast of Revelation 19.

"It is “white” in order to portray the righteousness of those who are granted entrance.

"As we read in Revelation 19:8, it was granted to the Bride, i.e., the Church, “to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure, for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.”

If you have to know what I believe, it is that "the church" refers to "churches", just like the 7 in Revelation, where Jesus is in the Mist of them and He considers them Candlesticks, and has the pastors of them in His right hand. Jesus' churches are the only kind of church Jesus knows anything about. = His Bride.

Little wonder, then, that John goes on to write, “And the angel said to me, ‘Write this: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb’” (Revelation 19:9a). Blessed indeed!

I must confess that I’m even more intrigued by the “new name” written on the stone “that no one knows except the one who receives it” (Rev. 2:17). This is clearly an allusion to the prophecy

in Isaiah 62:2 (“The nations shall see your righteousness, and all the kings your glory, and you shall be called by a new name that the mouth of the Lord will give”)

and 65:15 (“but his [God’s] servants he will call by another name”).

"In both cases these concern Israel’s future kingly status and restoration to Yahweh, but are here applied to individuals within the Church, she who is the true Israel of God.

"Another question is whether this new name given to the overcomer is Christ’s or the individual’s.

Greg Beale believes that the “name” in Revelation 2:17 is a reference to the “name of my God, the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my [Christ’s] new name” in Revelation 3:12.

"These are not separate names, notes Beale, but “all refer to the intimate eschatological presence of God and Christ with his people” (253), as expressed most clearly by Revelation 22:3-4.

"That’s certainly a possibility, but I’m inclined to think the “new name” in v. 17 is one given uniquely to each individual believer and that it “symbolizes the individual’s entry into a new life, status or personality. . . .

"The thought may then be compared with that of 2 Cor. 5.17” (Hemer, 103-04). In other words, because those who are in Christ are now “new creations” it is only fitting that they should each receive a “new name” suitable to their position in and relationship with Jesus.

"In this regard we must also remember that the “manna” given to us is described as “hidden” (Rev. 2:17a).

"Some believe this is simply a reference to its having been “hidden” in a jar in the Ark of the Covenant, but I think something more is involved.

"If Jesus is himself the manna, perhaps the point is that all that awaits us in him is “hidden” in the sense that it is reserved and kept safe and guarded against all possibility of loss so that we might revel in its certainty and the assurance that what God has promised, he will indeed provide.

"To sum up, there is an identity you have in God, reflected in your new name, that transcends whatever shame or regret or disappointment is wrapped up in who you are now.

"There is a very private and personal place of intimacy with him that brings hope and freedom and joy that none can touch or taint or steal away.

"Paul said it best when he declared that “your life is hidden with Christ in God” (Colossians 3:3b).

"Peter echoed much the same thing in saying that we have “an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven” for us (1 Peter 1:4)."

 

...yep...

 

Yeah, I'm exclusively 'Ahmillennial', forever, from now on.

You may have seen me say I slipped and told our deacons that our former pastor was "Ahmillennial now", since he is now in Glory....

I know that, though, because there is only one way to interpret it, not 4 or 44.

This is Angus Stewart on
The 1,000 Years of Revelation 20

The 1,000 Years of Revelation 20 – CPRC

Not the place to start for understanding the Amillennialism approach to Bible hermeneutics, but he bam, bam, bam, runs through it all tout de suite enough.

IMHO, once someone really sees that the book of Revelation is structured in 7 overlapping Visions (with more detail revealed as they go along) they will understand that approaching the book chapter by chapter, chronologically, is counter-productive to how and what God has revealed.

The seven sections are here:
The Revelation: More Than Conquerors, Part 1 (Hendriksen’s theory of interpretation)

Each of the 7 Visions cover the same period of time, which is, as below, described as the Age of churches/ the Church Age/ The New Testament Era, as you said, the Inter-Advental Period/ the day of salvation/ the acceptable year of the Lord/ "a thousand years' Reign of Jesus Christ, currently from Heaven, Spiritually Ruling over His Kingdom on Earth and in and through His local churches that assemble organizationally as those in the New Testament (and many, many, many more words in the Bible to express our current Age).

Another priceless and more in-depth explanation of Revelation, many consider a Classic (here in full, in .pdf).

https://tbc.tn-biblecollege.edu/files/tbc/resthistlib/Hendricksen-W-More_Than_Conquerors_-1940.pdf

By grasping the first few short chapters leaves no room for any other interpretation.

I consider it, "Christianity", as I do numerous other topics that are denigrated by some who see my views on "Christianity", as
no longer fashionable or passé.

There can be nothing more stylish than that Jesus is Returning Once and that that is it.

Reference; what do these verses teach?(?

9.0.0 > NT Intro iv: SIXTY-SIX NEW TESTAMENT Verses Teach The SECOND COMING of JESUS CHRIST & THE END of TIME.
in which THE TRIUNE GODHEAD
REVEALS and TEACHES
THE SECOND COMING of JESUS CHRIST
at THE END of TIME (w/o Revelation),

in
ALL of THE STRAIGHTFORWARD,
NEW TESTAMENT VERSES
TEACHING THE SECOND COMING of JESUS ( PAROUSIA )

as THE END of THE EARTH,
from ‘The Didactic ( teaching portions of the) New Testament’,
i.e., The Gospels, The Book of Acts,
and The Epistles.
...

1 Corinthians 15: 24 Then cometh the end,

For my two cents worth, and Gill's on below, 'the end', here is the End of Time that could happen at any second, with the return of Jesus, in Judgment, and the Consummation of the Age (the Age of churches/ the Church Age/ The New Testament Era, as you said, the Inter-Advental Period/ the day of salvation/ the acceptable year of the Lord/ "a thousand years' Reign of Jesus Christ, currently from Heaven, Spiritually Ruling over His Kingdom on Earth and in and through His local churches that assemble organizationally as those in the New Testament, that Jesus goes in and out of, etc.)

when he shall have delivered up the kingdom

The kingdom here that Jesus delivers to the Father is The Kingdom of The Son.

The Kingdom of the Son is Jesus' saints ruling with Him on earth during the Inter-Advental Period/ from Jesus' Ascension to Jesus' Return/ which period is the day of salvation/ the acceptable year of the Lord/ "a thousand years" Reign of Jesus Christ, currently from Heaven, Spiritually Ruling over His Kingdom on Earth and in and through His local churches that assemble organizationally as those in the New Testament, etc.

Today, and since He ascended, Jesus Rules in The Kingdom of The Son, Spiritually, from Heaven.

Jesus will deliver HIS KINGDOM (the Kingdom of the Son) over to be The Kingdom of God (the Father) throughout eternity, after Jesus' Second Coming.

The KINGDOM of the Father is Heaven, with all the saints, throughout eternity, after Jesus' Second Coming.

I see no 'signs' leading up to Jesus' Return or anything like a second chance for the Jews to hear from Jesus, Personally, after Jesus' Returning One Time.

That's the End of Time and The World.

The Kingdom of The father will be on the New Heaven and New Earth, Created after Jesus' Return, when He gives up The Kingdom of The Son, to be The Kingdom of the Father.

to God, even the Father;

At Jesus' Return is when:

when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Jesus is reigning, now;

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

There will be no more death, after Jesus' Return; (talking about physical death, not the Second Death);

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

"all enemies, and death itself, shall be put under the feet of Christ, and is taken out of Psalm 8:6" Gill; "Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:"

"when David, or the Holy Spirit by him, said the above words, in Psalm 8:6 nothing is more clear and evident, than that God the Father, who made all things subject to Christ as Mediator, is himself not subjected to him;" (to Jesus) Gill;

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

"For all things as yet are not put under him (Jesus) in fact;

"though in right God the Father has given to him (Jesus) an authoritative power over all things, and a right to dispose of them at his pleasure;

"but all things are not actually and in their full extent subject to him, yet they will be when the last enemy is destroyed (at Jesus' Return): and...

...as the Father will always remain a father (in 'Office' , in The Triune Godhead), so the Son will remain a son (as Preist and King in The Triune Godhead);

"then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him; which must be interpreted and understood with great care and caution;" Gill;

"it is best, therefore to understand it of the Son's giving up the account of his mediatorial kingdom and concerns to his Father;

"when it will appear that he has in the whole of his conduct and administration been subject to him;

"that he has in all things acted in his name, done all by his power, and to his honor and glory;

"and now having accomplished all he undertook and was entrusted with, gives in his account, delivers up his charge, and resigns his office; all which will be plain proofs of his subjection: when I say he will resign or lay aside his office as Mediator, my meaning is not that he will cease to be God-man and Mediator;

"but that he will cease to administer that office as under God, in the manner he now does:

"he will be the prophet of the church,

"but he will not teach by his Spirit and word, and ordinances as now, but will himself be the immediate light of the saints,

"he will be a priest for ever, the virtue of his sacrifice and intercession will always remain, but he will not plead and intercede as he now does;

"he will also reign for ever over and among his saints, but his kingdom will not be a vicarious one, or administered as it now is;

"nor be only in his hands as Mediator, but with God, Father, Son, and Spirit:"

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.