Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Do you even know what you are asking? It seems you just want to disagree with whatever is posted. Answer your own question since you do not seem to like any that have been provided.
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What are the specific biblical instructions concerning translating God’s words into other languages
- Thread starter JD731
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Do you even know what you are asking? It seems you just want to disagree with whatever is posted. Answer your own question since you do not seem to like any that have been provided.
It can be a straw man diversion or attempt to dodge your own burden of proof to make a sound, scriptural case for your opinions.
Asking a question that suggests that there are too many English Bible translations does not lead to the conclusion that there should be only one English Bible translation.
Your question does nothing towards proving your opinions concerning the KJV to be true and scriptural.
Your question was answered by a question, but you ignore or avoid that sound response to it. Does a consistent, just application of your own reasoning condemn the making of the 1611 KJV when there were already several good English Bible translations available?
The Translators to the Reader
The Best Things Have Been Calumniated
The Highest Personages have been Calumniated
His Majesty's Constancy, Notwithstanding Calumniation, for the Survey of the English Translations
The Praise of the Holy Scriptures
Translation Necessary
The Translation of the Old Testament out of the Hebrew into Greek
Translation out of Hebrew and Greek into Latin
The Translating of the Scripture into the Vulgar Tongues
The Unwillingness of Our Chief Adversaries, that the Scriptures Should Be Divulged in the Mother Tongue, etc
The Speeches and Reasons, both of Our Brethren, and of Our Adversaries against this Work
A Satisfaction to Our Brethren
An Answer to the Imputations of Our Adversaries
The Purpose of the Translators, with their Number, Furniture, Care, etc
Reasons Moving Us To Set Diversity of Senses in the Margin, where there is Great Probability for Each
Reasons Inducing Us Not To Stand Curiously upon an Identity of Phrasing
The Best Things Have Been Calumniated
The Highest Personages have been Calumniated
His Majesty's Constancy, Notwithstanding Calumniation, for the Survey of the English Translations
The Praise of the Holy Scriptures
Translation Necessary
The Translation of the Old Testament out of the Hebrew into Greek
Translation out of Hebrew and Greek into Latin
The Translating of the Scripture into the Vulgar Tongues
The Unwillingness of Our Chief Adversaries, that the Scriptures Should Be Divulged in the Mother Tongue, etc
The Speeches and Reasons, both of Our Brethren, and of Our Adversaries against this Work
A Satisfaction to Our Brethren
An Answer to the Imputations of Our Adversaries
The Purpose of the Translators, with their Number, Furniture, Care, etc
Reasons Moving Us To Set Diversity of Senses in the Margin, where there is Great Probability for Each
Reasons Inducing Us Not To Stand Curiously upon an Identity of Phrasing
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The gospel of Jesus Christ and the gospel of God is to be preached. It is to be believed, it is to be glorified by men. It is to be obeyed. Those are things that men can and must do. No one has claimed that men are to translate it. Men can do the former things but they cannot do the latter thing because of the nature of God and the inspiration of his words. Jesus said his words were spiritual and they are life in Jn 6:63. Therefore God has not given translating as a blanket command because his words are inspired. Men are not inspired, his words are.
[Snip] as far as the translation of scripture in the Japanese language is concerned, I think it is very likely that God is using you to do this Job. When a people shows an interest in the word of God it is a sure thing that God will get it to them. I believe in the absence of a command to translate it is the prerogative of God when he provides the word and who he gives the charge to translate it and when it is finished it really is the word of God and no one must apologize because it is “just” a translation.
The truths of God are in the words of God.
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This is not actually an answer to my point, which was, the Gospel is the Word of God, so therefore if we give someone the Gospel in another language, we are translating the Word of God.
Please tell me where and how I have done this, and I will apologize.
I am very passionate about Bible translation, believing it to be mandated by God. I've done it, I've taught it in the States and Africa, so anything written against it gets my dander up. I perceived your OP and your posts as being anti-missionary Bible translation. If you are not anti-Bible translation, please tell me, and I would be happy to reign in my aggressive posts. If you are anti, please say so clearly.
Good points. Except that I have reiterated that the Great Commission mandates Bible translation, a point I would like you to comment on.
Exactly. So why should not everyone in the entire world know the truths of God?
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You have a lot of nerve as well as dishonesty. This is my thread that I opened with a simply question that you have not even tried to answer, then you demand that I answer your question while leading the readers to think I have somewhere stated that translating the scriptures is a sin. You should be banned for a practice like that.
The Translators to the Reader
Translation Necessary
But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknown tongue? as it is written, Except I know the power of the voice, I shall be to him that speaketh, a Barbarian, and he that speaketh, shall be a Barbarian to me. [1 Cor 14] The Apostle excepteth no tongue; not Hebrew the ancientest, not Greek the most copious, not Latin the finest. Nature taught a natural man to confess, that all of us in those tongues which we do not understand, are plainly deaf; we may turn the deaf ear unto
them. The Scythian counted the Athenian, whom he did not understand, barbarous; so the Roman did the Syrian, and the Jew (even S. Jerome himself calleth the Hebrew tongue barbarous, belike because it was strange to so many) so the Emperor of Constantinople calleth the Latin tongue, barbarous, though Pope Nicolas do storm at it: so the Jews long before Christ called all other nations, Lognazim, which is little better than barbarous. Therefore as one complaineth, that always in the Senate of Rome, there was one or other that called for an interpreter: so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readiness. Translation it is that openeth the window, to let in the light; that breaketh the shell, that we may eat the kernel; that putteth aside the curtain, that we may look into the most Holy place; that removeth the cover of the well, that we may come by the water, even as Jacob rolled away the stone from the mouth of the well, by which means the flocks of Laban were watered [Gen 29:10]. Indeed without translation into the vulgar tongue, the unlearned are but like children at Jacob's well (which was deep) [John 4:11] without a bucket or something to draw with; or as that person mentioned by Isaiah, to whom when a sealed book was delivered, with this motion, Read this, I pray thee, he was fain to make this answer, I cannot, for it is sealed. [Isa 29:11
Translation Necessary
But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknown tongue? as it is written, Except I know the power of the voice, I shall be to him that speaketh, a Barbarian, and he that speaketh, shall be a Barbarian to me. [1 Cor 14] The Apostle excepteth no tongue; not Hebrew the ancientest, not Greek the most copious, not Latin the finest. Nature taught a natural man to confess, that all of us in those tongues which we do not understand, are plainly deaf; we may turn the deaf ear unto
them. The Scythian counted the Athenian, whom he did not understand, barbarous; so the Roman did the Syrian, and the Jew (even S. Jerome himself calleth the Hebrew tongue barbarous, belike because it was strange to so many) so the Emperor of Constantinople calleth the Latin tongue, barbarous, though Pope Nicolas do storm at it: so the Jews long before Christ called all other nations, Lognazim, which is little better than barbarous. Therefore as one complaineth, that always in the Senate of Rome, there was one or other that called for an interpreter: so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readiness. Translation it is that openeth the window, to let in the light; that breaketh the shell, that we may eat the kernel; that putteth aside the curtain, that we may look into the most Holy place; that removeth the cover of the well, that we may come by the water, even as Jacob rolled away the stone from the mouth of the well, by which means the flocks of Laban were watered [Gen 29:10]. Indeed without translation into the vulgar tongue, the unlearned are but like children at Jacob's well (which was deep) [John 4:11] without a bucket or something to draw with; or as that person mentioned by Isaiah, to whom when a sealed book was delivered, with this motion, Read this, I pray thee, he was fain to make this answer, I cannot, for it is sealed. [Isa 29:11
According to your very own statement, you suggested and even asserted that "translating the scriptures as we have seen it in the last 150 years" is apostasy, which would assert that it is wrong or a sin. Would you not claim that teaching or supporting apostasy would be sin? Perhaps you should have considered more carefully what your statement suggested.
The translators of the NKJV were or are believers or members of the Christian faith. You have not proven them to be apostates or supporters of apostasy as your own statement would seem to imply or suggest.
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Report me. Get me banned, then.
you have graded the English language translations and paraphrases ranking some above the others. And preferring one over another. This in itself proves the exaltation of your own opinions over the word of God. How could God, who has his own Son invested in our salvation, be so cavalier about his testimony of his person. The title of Jesus Christ is “The word of the LORD.” He is the Lord GOD (Adonai Jehovah). The testimony of God about his person and work is not open ended. There is only one of him and there is only one testimony of God about him. It is the word of God.
But that is all beside the point for this thread. I would like for you to prove your faith and practice of the modern philosophy of continual translation and paraphrasing into the English language of God’s word Where are the passages where he sanctions such a thing and why would he have a need to do it, being the omniscient God and claiming in 1 Cor 2:1 that his scripture is the testimony of God?
You have exalted your own non-scriptural or extra-biblical, human opinions over the word of God (Scripture) as seen in your above statements.
You do not even practice what you preach since you in effect grade, rank, esteem, and prefer the KJV over all other English Bible translations. You probably think incorrectly that you do not do that since you may deny that the other English Bible translations are the word of God translated into English. The fact remains that you are still grading and ranking the KJV and the other English Bibles when you attempt to put the KJV in a separate category by itself. You are the one attempting to treat, grade, or rank the KJV differently than other English Bible translations. God has not stated, declared, or endorsed your human opinions. The word of God had been translated into English many years before 1611.
Romans 14:5-6
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
The pre-1611 English Bibles are the word of God translated into English in the same sense (univocally) as the 1611 KJV is the word of God translated into English.
37818
Well-Known Member
Seems to be the case. Can you give a case example that cannot be explained in any other way? Thanks.
And Aramaic
37818
Well-Known Member
And or Hebrew.
In Mark 7:6–7, Jesus quotes the LXX of Isaiah 29:13 when he says, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’”
37818
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
LXX, . . . ὁ λαὸς οὗτος τοῖς χείλεσιν αὐτῶν τιμῶσίν με ἡ δὲ καρδία αὐτῶν πόρρω ἀπέχει ἀπ' ἐμοῦ μάτην δὲ σέβονταί με διδάσκοντες ἐντάλματα ἀνθρώπων καὶ διδασκαλίας.
Mark, . . . ουτος ο λαος τοις χειλεσι με τιμα η δε καρδια αυτων πορρω απεχει απ εμου ματην δε σεβονται με διδασκοντες διδασκαλιας ενταλματα ανθρωπων.
Even in this case, if Jesus did not quote the LXX, the Holy Spirit used the same Greek words as the LXX there.
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Responding to point #1 above.
My op does not mention my position on the KJV. Any Baptist on this forum could have asked the question and it would have been just as legitimate. What would your answer have been if one of them had asked it?
There are many things that God has done in the past and is doing in the present that he has not asked men, saved or lost, to participate in. He does not ask because men are incapable and would do more harm than good. Keeping his words pure in translation is one.
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
I doubt anyone will carefully read what the following passage actually says but here it is.
1 Corinthians 2:9-16
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Before he spoke about the deep things, the hidden mysteries that required the Spirit to enlighten the mind,he spoke of the cross as a contrast in its simplicity. No wisdom required, only faith. Read an except from chapter one and give it some thought.
1 Corinthians 1:21-29
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
God must be involved in the translation of his word and whoever thinks they are choosing the words are instruments in his hands. The reason some do not know more about the hidden wisdom of God that he reveals in what he calls the mysteries of God is because they are not revealed in the substitute translations and God is not in the words.
Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
I am trying to get you to see that God is not the author of these many translations in the same language.
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yes Silverhair, I do know what I am asking. I am asking what passages in the scriptures deals with translating his scriptures into other languages? Are we just to presume that anyone with a pen and paper and can speak Greek and Hebrew and the target language has liberty to translate?
How important for modern Christians is it to have the inspired scriptures?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well I am sure you will agree that none of the bibles that we have are the inspired scriptures or at least I would think you would agree since only the autographs were inspired. Every bible that we have is a translation. And since the KJV was done in 1611, and then redone in 1629 & 1638 & 1760 & 1769 which one do you consider to be the inspired one or do you just consider it to be a translation done by men just as all those other bibles are translations done by men.
As I said before, unless you are using a Konie Greek text for your NT then you are using a translation. So you JD have a real problem as you said you use the KJV so why are you doing that as it is not inspired so you are violating your own standard.
Mar 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Do you think Christ was saying that we have to teach everyone English before we can preach the gospel to them or perhaps French or German and why not Greek but then it would have to be Konie Greek as that is what they spoke back then. And what language do you think the autographs were written in JD? As I said before, you do not even know what you are asking.
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