robt.k.fall
Member
There are none.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
What are the specific biblical instructions concerning translating God’s words into other languages
- Thread starter JD731
- Start date
- Status
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well if we have to have as you say the "inspired" bible then we all have a problem as the only inspired text was the autographs everything else is just mans translation of those words. So by your own words none of us are actually saved and have no way of being saved. Since anyone that preaches only has a non inspired man-made text to go by then how are they to know if what they are preaching is really true.
I am curious though, what bible do you consider to be this "inspired" text?
I really think that your opposition to the KJV only position does not necessarily compute to your understanding anything about the prophetic truths that are being presented to us in this Psalm. It is easy to be a naysayer if you do not see any reason to correct those you accuse of being ignorant of the text or a deceiver.
I am a KJV only believer and I do not think this preserved thing is the word of God in any language although there is no doubt the Psalmist is saying the words of Jehovah are pure words. He does mean that to be understood as written. I have laid out 13 psalms that deals with the same subject and establishes a theme that is very important to things in the future that will take place on the earth. I dealt with this already in some posts a few months ago. The "them" in Psalm 12:7 are the poor oppressed and sighing needy of verse 5. Verse 5 is the answer to the prayer that is raised by these folks in every one of the 13 psalms. It is the same people, the poor and oppressed and the needy, it is the same prayer, and it is the only Psalm where he promises to answer it. It is significant that the promise is in this 12th Psalm.
37818
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
I do not know what TSIA means. I do know that "help LORD" in Psalm 12:1 is a prayer and I do know that the words "I will" in verse 5 is a promise of the LORD to answer it. It is not a statement that he has already answered it or that he is answering it presently, but it is a promise to answer it in the future. If you cannot point to a scripture where you can be sure it has been answered between then, about 1000 BC, until now, 2023 AD, then it is still on the docket to be answered.
I do know for sure it has not been answered and I know these people who are oppressed and sighing and needy have not been purified 7 times. But I know they will be and I know that every one of them who are left alive on the earth at the end of the purification cycle will be as pure as the Psalmist says they will be.
The psalms are prophesies and the writers are prophets. If this prophecy does not come to pass just as the LORD said it will, then you have proven the theology that you are presenting on this forum is the truth.
Finally you admit the truth. Your human, non-scriptural KJV-only assumptions and opinions mislead you.
The Scriptures that God gave by inspiration of God to the prophets and apostles did not teach believers to be "KJV-only".
The Scriptures as translated in the KJV do not teach believers to be "KJV-only." Modern KJV-only teaching is a doctrine of man, not a doctrine of God.
37818
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
What does the scriptures specifically teach about translating the scriptures?
37818
Well-Known Member
Well, the Holy Spirit translated Hebrew into New Testament Greek when He used church prophets and Apostles quoting from the Old Testament.
Last edited:
So what? Are you an apostle or prophet? That may be an answer to a different question than I am asking. Can you answer the question I am asking?
Last edited:
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well He did not say that the KJV was an inspired translation now did He. But since He did say that we were to preach the gospel to all the world that would require that were provide the scripture in their language or else teach them all Konie Greek.
You are fighting an uphill battle her JD. On one hand you say God did not say to translate the scriptures into the language of the people then say we are to believe that the KJV is an inspired English translation. You are very confused.
37818
Well-Known Member
.
No. And the answer to the question of this thread, is that the written word of God doesn't give explicit instructions on translating His written word.
I am going to answer your comments here Silverhair, but the one thing I am learning from your comments is that you are incapable of following an argument. It is like you are not reading but maybe a sentence of three paragraphs and then formulating your response from that one sentence. You are going to have to do better.
You have been making statements here about the scriptures that you cannot possibly know unless you are God. You are merely presenting the pervasive opinions of the majority of religionists and infiltrators.
Here is what God says in his word about scripture. It is simple. It is easy to understand.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom (not of what but of whom) thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Note: Inspiration of God is what makes the scriptures holy. All scripture is inspired' Apply the logic here. If it is not inspired it is not scripture because only scripture is inspired. Scripture is the written word of God and it is his record that he has given us.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Now you say no translations are holy and inspired and I am going to guess that you will agree that the words in all English translations are different and these different words often times drive men to different conclusions as to understanding the meaning of texts.
Now you cannot know that God, the author of the holy scriptures, he says, can not and has not inspired the words of a translation. You cannot know that because God has not said it. But he has said things about the scriptures. Timothy had the scriptures when he was a lad. We are admonished to search the scriptures for in them ye think you have eternal life, and they (the scriptures) are they that speak of me, Jesus said.
Now, if we can logically presume that we in the church have the scriptures in our day in our language then we must have an inspired translation. One cannot have two inspired translations in a single language with not only different words but a vast difference in the number of words between translations. This would make God out to be a liar or he would instruct in error. especially if it was his words that were inspired of him.
The scriptures instructs us to prove all things.
If the scriptures are truly the words of God written in pen and ink, then why would he instruct us to translate them and even paraphrase them? Would they be God's words if someone else chose them?
The only logical conclusion is that God inspires the translated words and he does it by providence and his truth is not diminished because of it.
Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
The thoughts of God are higher than our thoughts and the words through which he makes them known are necessary to accomplish what he sends them for.
There are no inspired men but there are inspired translated words that come from God.
This is true.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
JD to quote you "Now, if we can logically presume that we in the church have the scriptures in our day in our language then we must have an inspired translation." One big problem is that we do not have an inspired translation, what we have are men that translate the copies, which is all we have, of the inspired text. Second big problem for you is what one of the myriad English translations do you think was inspired? Can't be the KJV as it was not the first English translation was it.
Anything other than the autographs are just copies or translations none of which were inspired as that would make them equal to the autographs in divine authority.
The pre-1611 English Bible translators and some of the KJV translators disagree with you.
2 Peter 1:21 is considered to be a parallel verse to 2 Timothy 3:16 concerning the giving of the Scriptures. It suggests that the certain holy men [the prophets and apostles] were involved. The term inspiration may come into the English Bible through influence of the Latin Vulgate.
The Latin Vulgate as found in Coverdale’s 1538 Latin-English New Testament began 2 Timothy 3:16 as follows: “Omnis scriptura divinitus inspirata,“ and the Latin Vulgate also has “inspirati” in its rendering at 2 Peter 1:21. Stephen Westcott’s modern-spelling edition of the 1388 Wycliffe New Testament has the following rendering of 2 Peter 1:21: “for prophecy was not brought at any time by man’s will, but the holy men of God, inspired with the Holy Ghost, spoke it.“ Miles Coverdale’s rendering of the Latin Vulgate in his 1538 English New Testament at 2 Peter 1:21 is the following: “For the prophecy was never brought by the will of man, but the holy men of God spake as they were inspired by the holy Ghost.”
Five early pre-1611 English Bibles [Tyndale's, Matthew's, Great, Whittingham's, and Bishops' Bibles] rendered Mark 12:36 as follows: "for David himself inspired with the Holy Ghost." To refer to the inspiring of men or to "inspired men" is consistent with early English Bible terminology from the very good Bibles in the line of good Bibles promoted by KJV-only advocates. Is this understanding or interpretation of the early English Bible translators an accurate description of the process of God in giving His Word to men? At John 20:19, the Geneva Bible and an edition of the KJV printed in 1672 have the following marginal note: “Christ in that he presented himself before his disciples suddenly through his divine power, when the gates were shut, doth fully assure them both of his resurrection, and also of their Apostleship, inspiring them with the holy Ghost, who is the director of the ministry of the Gospel.” The Geneva Bible and a KJV edition printed in 1672 have the following note at 1 Corinthians 14:32: “The doctrine which the prophets bring, which are inspired with God’s Spirit.” At 1 Corinthians 14:2, the same two Bibles have a note that begins as follows: “By that inspiration which he has received of the Spirit.”
In the preface of the 1568 Bishops’ Bible, Matthew Parker maintained that the apostle Paul was “inspired from God above” and that “he did inspire Moses” (Richmond, Fathers, VIII, pp. 146, 151).
Lancelot Andrewes, KJV translator, used this early Bible terminology when he preached that Christ "inspireth them [the apostles] with the Holy Ghost" (Ninety-Six Sermons, Library, V, p. 83). Andrewes stated that “the Prophet did nothing but as inspired by the Holy Ghost” (Ninety-Six, III, p. 317). Concerning 2 Peter 1:19, Lancelot Andrewes commented: “The apostle teacheth us that we have the Law from God immediately, and all other scripture by the ministry of men, but yet as they spake nothing but that which the Spirit of God commanded them and inspired into them, and therefore that which they delivered we must hold for a most sure and infallible truth” (Pattern of Catechistical Doctrine, p. 46). KJV translator John Overall wrote: “For we hold it resolutely, that whatsoever the Apostles did either write, teach, or command, they wrote, taught, and commanded it as they were inspired and directed by the Holy Ghost” (Convocation Book, p. 120). Thomas Bilson, co-editor of the KJV, wrote: “The prophets were inspired from above” (Perpetual Government, p. 136).
Every translation carries the authority of the original to the extent that they faithfully convey the message of the original.
Paul’s epistle to Timothy says, “All Scripture is inspired by God…”
Timothy certainly did not read an original document, and probably read a Greek translation of the OT.
The translators of the KJV, in their Preface extensively discuss the worthiness of the Septuagint, despite it’s flaws.
The translators of the Authorized Version in their Preface also profess that the authority of Scripture can be transferred to other languages, even imperfect translations are able to. carry God’s message with his authority.
Paul’s epistle to Timothy says, “All Scripture is inspired by God…”
Timothy certainly did not read an original document, and probably read a Greek translation of the OT.
The translators of the KJV, in their Preface extensively discuss the worthiness of the Septuagint, despite it’s flaws.
The translators of the Authorized Version in their Preface also profess that the authority of Scripture can be transferred to other languages, even imperfect translations are able to. carry God’s message with his authority.
Just as the King’s speech which he utters in Parliament is still the King’s speech, though it may be imperfectly translated into French, Dutch, Italian, and Latin; so also in the case of the translation of the Word of God. For translations will never be infallible since they are not like the original manuscripts, which were produced by the apostles and their associates under the influence of inspiration. However, even an imperfect translation like the Septuagint can surely be called the Word of God…
Rob
The apostasy of the last days is summarized in your comments. God does not say that he is giving us his message and that he is not concerned about his words. If his words are not his words it is impossible to receive his message.
The New testament truths that God has given to us in his words are hidden in the OT scriptures. God has been careful to give us physical representations of his spiritual truths. This is the reason why Jesus said in John 6:63 that his words are spirit and they are life. He was speaking about the manna that was bread from heaven that must be eaten to give life and that those to whom he came must eat his body and drink his blood. The figures of the OT pointed to him. He must be in the body because he is life. A message without the type would be useless and those men who were not spiritual and had no concern about who Jesus was did not believe turned and left his presence. That does not mean they stopped being religious. They went on as they were and when Jesus became too burdensome for them they put him to death.
Mt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Since it is scripture that God records the truths of these parables in they must be taught by God who dwells in us because the purpose of the parables is to conceal the truths from apostate religious men who believes in the elevation of themselves and their own human philosophies.
Mt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
You greatly err in your view of the scriptures.
I’m (almost) certain you don’t mean that everyone needs to learn first century Greek to properly understand God’s good news to mankind in Jesus.
That would be ludicrous!
Then you declared yourself a KJVO adherent (a position its translators disavowed).
The KJVO position is ‘wholly’ deficient in logic and leads to an improper understanding of Scripture and puts you in an adversarial stance within the body of Christ.
God, “who desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.” (1 Tim. 2:4) is not shackled into a single translation of his good news to mankind.
Rob
Responding to my designated POINT# 1 above.
First of all this thread was not started to talk about the KJV or about a specific version of translation. It was started to talk about many versions in the same target language where the money is. It is not a thread where I intended to talk about me but to talk about you. It is not about what I believe and practice but about what you teach and to ask you to give me a summary of how you reached your position from Bible passages, the only way God has given us to “prove all things.”
The fact that you are batting zero after all these posts tells me that your doctrine presumes that God is so pleased with the translations into English that he cannot get enough of them. This I believe is a presumptive sin, and pardon me for having an opinion about it, but I believe it is unsaved men and women who are producing these translations since 1901 AD for the most part.
The very best thing that can be said about those who buy into this philosophy is that they are carnal and immature. That is the best thing that can be said.
1 Corinthians 3:1-15
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1 Corinthians 1:10-12
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
and reproves their dissensions
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. “
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
Speaking different things causes strifes, contentions, and divisions. Paul had to write a second letter to the Corinthians to defend his apostolic credentials.That is how far this contention went. There can be only one authority for us. Let him speak and let us speak the same things.
Last edited:
- Status