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What are the specific biblical instructions concerning translating God’s words into other languages

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JD731

Well-Known Member
Every translation carries the authority of the original to the extent that they faithfully convey the message of the original.

Paul’s epistle to Timothy says, “All Scripture is inspired by God…”
POINT #1 - Timothy certainly did not read an original document, and probably read a Greek translation of the OT.

The translators of the KJV, in their Preface extensively discuss the worthiness of the Septuagint, despite it’s flaws.

The translators of the Authorized Version in their Preface also profess that the authority of Scripture can be transferred to other languages, even imperfect translations are able to. carry God’s message with his authority.

Just as the King’s speech which he utters in Parliament is still the King’s speech, though it may be imperfectly translated into French, Dutch, Italian, and Latin; so also in the case of the translation of the Word of God. For translations will never be infallible since they are not like the original manuscripts, which were produced by the apostles and their associates under the influence of inspiration. However, even an imperfect translation like the Septuagint can surely be called the Word of God…
Rob

Responding to my label of point #1 above.

If I did not know anything about the LXX except it was a Greek translation of the OT that was already in existence during the days of Jesus on the earth, and I knew the prophesies of the OT concerning his coming Kingship over the Jews and Israel, I would know that Jesus did not come to fulfill all his Messianic promises to Israel concerning his kingdom in a gentile language while he was preaching to prepare his own people who were a nation in their own land and who had a national language called Hebrew, in which almost all their own OT was written.

The reasoning and logic that is presented by people of the book, so called, Baptists, who should be people who are not completely ignorant, should know better than that.

A prophesied by God Jewish King coming to prepare his people for inauguration of his Jewish kingdom while speaking Greek? The ignorance here is overwhelming! And a Greek translation out of Egypt. Good grief! How bad can it get?


John 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
 
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Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Responding to my designated POINT# 1 above.

First of all this thread was not started to talk about the KJV or about a specific version of translation. It was started to talk about many versions in the same target language where the money is. It is not a thread where I intended to talk about me but to talk about you. It is not about what I believe and practice but about what you teach and to ask you to give me a summary of how you reached your position from Bible passages, the only way God has given us to “prove all things.”

The fact that you are batting zero after all these posts tells me that your doctrine presumes that God is so pleased with the translations into English that he cannot get enough of them. This I believe is a presumptive sin, and pardon me for having an opinion about it, but I believe it is unsaved men and women who are producing these translations since 1901 AD for the most part.

The very best thing that can be said about those who buy into this philosophy is that they are carnal and immature. That is the best thing that can be said.


1 Corinthians 3:1-15
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


1 Corinthians 1:10-12
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

and reproves their dissensions
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. “
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Speaking different things causes strifes, contentions, and divisions. Paul had to write a second letter to the Corinthians to defend his apostolic credentials.That is how far this contention went. There can be only one authority for us. Let him speak and let us speak the same things.

Here are a few English translations and one Greek. Point out the problems that you see in these translations. What is lost in the message of the text as you see it?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. KJV

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. NKJV

Joh 3:16 For this is the wayN36 God loved the world: He gave his one and onlyN37 Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perishN38 but have eternal life. N39 NET+

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. NIV 1984

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. NRSV

Joh 3:16 For thusG3779 G1063 God lovedG25 G3588 G2316 theG3588 world,G2889 so thatG5620 G3588 [4sonG5207 2hisG1473 G3588 3only bornG3439 1he gave],G1325 thatG2443 every one G3956 G3588 trustingG4100 inG1519 him,G1473 should notG3361 perish,G622 butG235 should haveG2192 [2lifeG2222 1eternal].G166 ABP+

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. BSB

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. NASB

Joh 3:16 οὕτωςG3779 γὰρG1063 ἠγάπησενG25 ὁG3588 θεὸςG2316 τὸνG3588 κόσμον,G2889 ὥστεG5620 τὸνG3588 υἱὸνG5207 αὐτοῦG846 τὸνG3588 μονογενῆG3439 ἔδωκεν,G1325 ἵναG2443 πᾶςG3956 ὁG3588 πιστεύωνG4100 εἰςG1519 αὐτὸνG846 μὴG3361 ἀπόληταιG622 ἀλλ᾽G235 ἔχῃG2192 ζωὴνG2222 αἰώνιον.G166
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This I believe is a presumptive sin, and pardon me for having an opinion about it, but I believe it is unsaved men and women who are producing these translations since 1901 AD for the most part.

You presume and assume incorrectly. There is a great deal of presumption in your non-scriptural KJV-only opinions. You believe some opinions and assertions that are not true and that are not scriptural. It is not asserted that you are not entitled to your opinion. Your opinions and preferences are not a Bible doctrine of God.

You err in your view of the Scriptures if you assume or presume that the Scriptures teach your modern KJV-only opinions.

The translators who produced the NKJV were not unsaved men.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Responding to my label of point #1 above.

If I did not know anything about the LXX except it was a Greek translation of the OT that was already in existence during the days of Jesus on the earth, and I knew the prophesies of the OT concerning his coming Kingship over the Jews and Israel, I would know that Jesus did not come to fulfill all his Messianic promises to Israel concerning his kingdom in a gentile language while he was preaching to prepare his own people who were a nation in their own land and who had a national language called Hebrew, in which almost all their own OT was written.

The reasoning and logic that is presented by people of the book, so called, Baptists, who should be people who are not completely ignorant, should know better than that.

A prophesied by God Jewish King coming to prepare his people for inauguration of his Jewish kingdom while speaking Greek? The ignorance here is overwhelming! And a Greek translation out of Egypt. Good grief! How bad can it get?


John 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Your words here JD "And a Greek translation out of Egypt. Good grief! How bad can it get?"

Which Manuscript Stream Is Most Reliable?
Greek manuscripts of the New Testament are categorized into three groups: Alexandrian, Western, and Byzantine. Alexandria, Egypt, was an ancient center for academic excellence and scholarship. Scholars view Alexandrian manuscripts as the best copied and most accurate. Western manuscripts come from a much wider area that extends from North Africa to France and east to Syria. These manuscripts appear to have less oversight over the copying process when compared with Alexandrian manuscripts.

The third category is Byzantine, coming from Constantinople. While 80% of all existing Greek manuscripts are in this category (this is why the Byzantine manuscripts are called the Majority Text), Byzantine manuscripts are considered the least accurate as there is evidence of expanding or smoothing out passages by copyists. The New Testament in the King James Version comes from this class of manuscripts.

Textus Receptus
In 1516, Dutch scholar Erasmus of Rotterdam (1466-1536) published the first complete Greek New Testament, Novem Instrumentum omne, a century later dubbed the Textus Receptus, working mainly from Byzantine manuscripts. He used 12th and 13th century Greek manuscripts of the New Testament that were housed in various Catholic locations, such as a Franciscan monastery in Cambridge, England, and a library in Basel, Switzerland, plus some manuscripts since lost.

Erasmus himself noted that there were errors in his translation. No less than four times he edited his own work, in 1519, 1522, 1527, and 1535. Tyndale’s English Bible (1526) and Luther’s German New Testament (1522) relied on earlier editions of Erasmus’ work.

French scholar Robert Estienne, known as Stephanus (1503-1559), edited Erasmus’ work four times, the last in 1551. This was followed by French theologian Theodore Beza (1519-1605) who updated the work nine times between 1565 and 1604. Beza was the successor of John Calvin as the leader of the influential Reformed community in Geneva.

The King James Translation
By the time the King James translators got to work on their new Bible version, the Textus Receptus had gone through over a dozen extensive edits and corrections. They relied on Beza’s work but not exclusively, nor did they always agree with it. There are roughly 200 places in the New Testament where the King James translators parted ways with Beza’s rendering, instead relying on earlier editions of the Textus Receptus. They also relied on earlier English translations, the third edition of the Bishop’s Bible (1602) being the foundational English version from which they worked.

While the King James Version relied on manuscripts from the Majority Text (Byzantine) for its New Testament translation, modern Bible translations use a more eclectic approach, although they predominantly rely upon the Alexandrian type of Greek manuscripts. In fact, other Greek manuscripts have been discovered since the KJV translation. It’s helpful to note, however, that there is 95-98% agreement between the Majority Text used by the KJV and modern critical Greek texts that might be used by other translations.

What Does This Mean For The KJV?
What can we conclude when comparing the King James Version’s New Testament with modern Bible translations? While the King James New Testament is composed from the majority of ancient Greek manuscripts, modern Bible translations use older yet not as many manuscripts; because they are older they are deemed closer to the original. As noted earlier, however, this does not take integrity from the KJV. Keep in mind our earlier statistics, and remember the correspondence between the KJV manuscripts and more modern translations is 95-98%. But do these differences make a difference?

Can I Trust The Bible?
This is what we have with the Bible. We know that over 99% of it accurately reflects the original writings, but in the less than 1% that remains (actually, it is about a quarter of one percent), we are not entirely sure because the manuscript evidence is mixed. But we know where all these passages are, and none of them affects an important Christian doctrine or practice.

New Testament Manuscripts and the KJV

While you may not like the modern translations textual scholars would disagree with you.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Here are a few English translations and one Greek. Point out the problems that you see in these translations. What is lost in the message of the text as you see it?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. KJV

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. NKJV

Joh 3:16 For this is the wayN36 God loved the world: He gave his one and onlyN37 Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perishN38 but have eternal life. N39 NET+

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. NIV 1984

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. NRSV

Joh 3:16 For thusG3779 G1063 God lovedG25 G3588 G2316 theG3588 world,G2889 so thatG5620 G3588 [4sonG5207 2hisG1473 G3588 3only bornG3439 1he gave],G1325 thatG2443 every one G3956 G3588 trustingG4100 inG1519 him,G1473 should notG3361 perish,G622 butG235 should haveG2192 [2lifeG2222 1eternal].G166 ABP+

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. BSB

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. NASB

Joh 3:16 οὕτωςG3779 γὰρG1063 ἠγάπησενG25 ὁG3588 θεὸςG2316 τὸνG3588 κόσμον,G2889 ὥστεG5620 τὸνG3588 υἱὸνG5207 αὐτοῦG846 τὸνG3588 μονογενῆG3439 ἔδωκεν,G1325 ἵναG2443 πᾶςG3956 ὁG3588 πιστεύωνG4100 εἰςG1519 αὐτὸνG846 μὴG3361 ἀπόληταιG622 ἀλλ᾽G235 ἔχῃG2192 ζωὴνG2222 αἰώνιον.G166

You prove with every post my accusation against you that you have not demonstrated any propensity to follow a conversation with understanding. My thread is dealing with what you believe, practice, and teach. It does not matter about me in this context. I am asking you to prove your theology.

I will say this about your comments. If there is no difference in the teaching of one translation to the next, where is the need for them? Some of these other fellows will argue with you because they say there is a difference. You should get your facts straight.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here is a very troubling thing that has been exposed by this op. These are all Baptists if they are honest because this is a sections for Baptists only. The apostasy has progressed much farther than I had expected. Not a single Baptist can answer the question of the thread.
Maybe it's only your opinion that we have not answered the OP. If by the OP do you mean, are you asking if we are commanded to translate the Bible? I feel I answered it fully by going to the Great Commission, but you refuse to interact with what I wrote.

Or maybe you just did a poor job of writing the OP. Did you mean translation methodology? If so, I answered that too with my list of translations directly in the Bible; they are all literal translation.

Now you are apparently calling everyone here but you an apostate. Do you actually know what an apostate is Biblically? If so, please share your meaning, because I'm sure not getting it from what you wrote. Is it your opinion that everyone who disagrees with you is an apostate? I'm not sure. Please elaborate: what do you mean by "apostate," and why are we apostate?
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
You prove with every post my accusation against you that you have not demonstrated any propensity to follow a conversation with understanding. My thread is dealing with what you believe, practice, and teach. It does not matter about me in this context. I am asking you to prove your theology.

I will say this about your comments. If there is no difference in the teaching of one translation to the next, where is the need for them? Some of these other fellows will argue with you because they say there is a difference. You should get your facts straight.

JD the more you write the more you prove that you really do not know what you are speaking to. I asked you to show me what was the difference between the teachings of the translations that I posted. Your response was to attack me rather than deal with the question.

Attack those that disagree with your personal view seems to be the only recourse you have as you can not defend your position.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
JD the more you write the more you prove that you really do not know what you are speaking to. I asked you to show me what was the difference between the teachings of the translations that I posted. Your response was to attack me rather than deal with the question.

Attack those that disagree with your personal view seems to be the only recourse you have as you can not defend your position.

I have personal views and I have written much about them when the subject was about them. This one is not. It is about your views. You are wanting to change the subject. I do not blame you.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Maybe it's only your opinion that we have not answered the OP. If by the OP do you mean, are you asking if we are commanded to translate the Bible? I feel I answered it fully by going to the Great Commission, but you refuse to interact with what I wrote.

Or maybe you just did a poor job of writing the OP. Did you mean translation methodology? If so, I answered that too with my list of translations directly in the Bible; they are all literal translation.

Now you are apparently calling everyone here but you an apostate. Do you actually know what an apostate is Biblically? If so, please share your meaning, because I'm sure not getting it from what you wrote. Is it your opinion that everyone who disagrees with you is an apostate? I'm not sure. Please elaborate: what do you mean by "apostate," and why are we apostate?

I know a dig when I see one. The so called great commission is about preaching and teaching, not translating. In all the gospels it is a charge to the apostles and prophets to teach what Jesus had taught them, not what the Spirit would reveal to them later. What Jesus had taught them was about the kingdom. What he told them is the Spirit, whom he would send after he left, would teach them about the church.

I love this subject and think I know something about it and would enjoy discussing it in another thread, but this thread is an opportunity for you to defend your doctrine of uninspired translations over and over in the same language, or you can simply explain what God says about translating his scriptures. I am willing to consider anything you have in that context. Without it, I am understanding that you are presuming you are in the center of the will of God. You are wanting me to trust you.

As for the apostasy. This is not my idea. I read about it in the scriptures concerning the last days of the church age. I noted the philosophical shift in modern times concerning the scriptures. Certainly this is not the only indicator of the last days but it is major.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
I have personal views and I have written much about them when the subject was about them. This one is not. It is about your views. You are wanting to change the subject. I do not blame you.

I have been clear with my views but it seems that you are unable to accept them. You have this mistaken idea that the KJV is an inspired text. It is not. It is just one of many translations. Some good some bad but none of them raise to the level of inspired.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
I know a dig when I see one. The so called great commission is about preaching and teaching, not translating. In all the gospels it is a charge to the apostles and prophets to teach what Jesus had taught them, not what the Spirit would reveal to them later. What Jesus had taught them was about the kingdom. What he told them is the Spirit, whom he would send after he left, would teach them about the church.

I love this subject and think I know something about it and would enjoy discussing it in another thread, but this thread is an opportunity for you to defend your doctrine of uninspired translations over and over in the same language, or you can simply explain what God says about translating his scriptures. I am willing to consider anything you have in that context. Without it, I am understanding that you are presuming you are in the center of the will of God. You are wanting me to trust you.

As for the apostasy. This is not my idea. I read about it in the scriptures concerning the last days of the church age. I noted the philosophical shift in modern times concerning the scriptures. Certainly this is not the only indicator of the last days but it is major.

You continue to disprove your assertion regarding the KJV. Did you not say that God would only want one English translation? So why did they make the KJV which would just be another English translation.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
You continue to disprove your assertion regarding the KJV. Did you not say that God would only want one English translation? So why did they make the KJV which would just be another English translation.

Include the KJV in the mix and answer the question of the op.
 

Conan

Well-Known Member
Responding to my label of point #1 above.

If I did not know anything about the LXX except it was a Greek translation of the OT that was already in existence during the days of Jesus on the earth, and I knew the prophesies of the OT concerning his coming Kingship over the Jews and Israel, I would know that Jesus did not come to fulfill all his Messianic promises to Israel concerning his kingdom in a gentile language while he was preaching to prepare his own people who were a nation in their own land and who had a national language called Hebrew, in which almost all their own OT was written.

The reasoning and logic that is presented by people of the book, so called, Baptists, who should be people who are not completely ignorant, should know better than that.

That's not what the KJV Translators thought.

But, when the fulness of time drew near, that the Sun of righteousness, the Son of God should come into the world, whom God ordained to be a reconciliation through faith in his blood, not of the Jew only, but also of the Greek, yea, of all them that were scattered abroad; then lo, it pleased the Lord to stir up the spirit of a Greek Prince (Greek for descent and language) even of Ptolemy Philadelph King of Egypt, to procure the translating of the Book of God out of Hebrew into Greek. This is the translation of the Seventy Interpreters, commonly so called, which prepared the way for our Saviour among the Gentiles by written preaching, as Saint John Baptist did among the Jews by vocal. For the Grecians being desirous of learning, were not wont to suffer books of worth to lie moulding in Kings' libraries, but had many of their servants, ready scribes, to copy them out, and so they were dispersed and made common. Again, the Greek tongue was well known and made familiar to most inhabitants in Asia, by reason of the conquest that there the Grecians had made, as also by the Colonies, which thither they had sent. For the same causes also it was well understood in many places of Europe, yea, and of Africa too. Therefore the word of God being set forth in Greek, becometh hereby like a candle set upon a candlestick, which giveth light to all that are in the house, or like a proclamation sounded forth in the market place, which most men presently take knowledge of; and therefore that language was fittest to contain the Scriptures, both for the first Preachers of the Gospel to appeal unto for witness, and for the learners also of those times to make search and trial by. It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but that it needed in many places correction; and who had been so sufficient for this work as the Apostles or Apostolic men? Yet it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to them, to take that which they found, (the same being for the greatest part true and sufficient) rather than by making a new, in that new world and green age of the Church, to expose themselves to many exceptions and cavillations, as though they made a Translation to serve their own turn, and therefore bearing witness to themselves, their witness not to be regarded.

The Translators to the Reader
A prophesied by God Jewish King coming to prepare his people for inauguration of his Jewish kingdom while speaking Greek? The ignorance here is overwhelming! And a Greek translation out of Egypt. Good grief! How bad can it get?
Matthew
2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the Angel of the Lord appeareth to Ioseph in a dreame, saying, Arise and take the young childe, and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and bee thou there vntill I bring thee word: for Herode will seeke the young childe, to destroy him.
2:14 When he arose, he tooke the yong childe and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
2:15 And was there vntill the death of Herode, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the Prophet, saying, Out of Egypt haue I called my sonne


John 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Out of Egypt haue I called my sonne
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Include the KJV in the mix and answer the question of the op.

a quote from you
“I am trying to get you to see that God is not the author of these many translations in the same language.” Post # 78

So answer the question, why did they need to make the KJV since they already had English translations? Your KJV onlyism is vapid and illogical. Your own words show the error of your thinking.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I know a dig when I see one. The so called great commission is about preaching and teaching, not translating. In all the gospels it is a charge to the apostles and prophets to teach what Jesus had taught them, not what the Spirit would reveal to them later. What Jesus had taught them was about the kingdom. What he told them is the Spirit, whom he would send after he left, would teach them about the church.
No offense, but this sounds like hyper dispensationalism, which denies the validity of the Great Commission to this dispensation (and says it is "so-called." Do you follow Cornelius Stam?

At any rate, it does not answer my point satisfactorily. Too little too late. Well, the thread is almost over. I guess this is going to be all I get from you.

I love this subject and think I know something about it and would enjoy discussing it in another thread, but this thread is an opportunity for you to defend your doctrine of uninspired translations over and over in the same language, or you can simply explain what God says about translating his scriptures. I am willing to consider anything you have in that context. Without it, I am understanding that you are presuming you are in the center of the will of God. You are wanting me to trust you.
I don't recall ever saying to you or anyone else here on the BB that I believe in uninspired translations. And I have written about translation within the Bible itself. I wrote about the saying of Jesus on the cross and how the Bible translates itself, but you chose to ignore that.

As for the apostasy. This is not my idea. I read about it in the scriptures concerning the last days of the church age. I noted the philosophical shift in modern times concerning the scriptures. Certainly this is not the only indicator of the last days but it is major.
Where does the Bible say anything about Bible translations and apostasy?
 

Piper

Active Member
Site Supporter
No it does not.

Guys, I have only asked you to confirm by scripture that God wants a continious string of translations in the same language and that he has addressed our responsibility as believers to translate the scriptures. I am being very bold here and assuming that you fellows are aware that the scriptures are called both the word and the words of God and claim inspiration for themselves.

Just for information for this discussion, I am not claiming myself that the word of God, the scriptures, must be present for a person to be saved. What it takes for a person to be saved is a preacher with a testimony of being saved himself and who will make known who God is and what he has done for sinners through his son, Jesus Christ. This is called the gospel of God. He can be saved whether he ever sees a Bible.

However, to understand the mysteries of God and the deep things of God one must have been born again and have the Spirit of God in him. It is the indwelling Spirt who enlightens the mind through the written word of God. These truths are dependent on the words that God has chosen because his truths are in his words. These words must be studied and believed.

1 Cor 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

If any of you men thinks it is just good enough to have a Bible to know God and his ways you are fooling yourselves. One must have an inspired Bible AND the indwelling Spirit of God to have spiritual understanding. Be sure you understand what I am saying. Sinners can be saved and remain ignorant. The same epistle in the next chapter calls it remaining babes in Christ and I will quote the pit falls of that eventuality in my next post. Some of you fellows here are in that condition because you are following skillful deniers of truth and you desire that you be perceived by others as among the smartest people in the room. It is a terrible trade off.

This is a very strange way of saying something.

Please answer this one question.

What translation of Scripture do you read?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What was so wonderful about the gift of tongues (other peoples languages) other than present the gospel to other peoples?

To say we are not taught to present the gospel, plainly, clearly and boldly to other nations, is to make a mockery of God's word.

1Co 14:8
For if the trumpet produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle?

1Co 14:9
So you too, unless you produce intelligible speech by the tongue, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will just be talking to the air.

1Co 14:10
There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and none is incapable of meaning.

1Co 14:11
So if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be unintelligible to the one who speaks, and the one who speaks will be unintelligible to me.

1Co 14:12
So you too, since you are eager to possess spiritual gifts, strive to excel for the edification of the church.

To deny translators are not "striving to excel for the edification of those to be called out" is poppycock. How often do we need to update our translations such that the vocabulary is consistent with the knowledge base of the current generation of reader? I would guess every 15 to 25 years.

Romans10:15
But how are they to preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written: “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”

What are "feet?" Are they what is used to traverse the gap between those who have the gospel and those who do not? How are the barriers to spreading the gospel crossed. Land barriers, Sea barriers, Language barriers?

1 Corinthians 14:27
If anyone speaks in a tongue, it must be by two or at the most three, and each one in turn, and one is to interpret;

You do not need to be a rocket scientist to grasp that to "interpret" is to translate what was said into something understandable by the audience. For example, Acts of the Apostles 9:36
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
a quote from you
“I am trying to get you to see that God is not the author of these many translations in the same language.” Post # 78

So answer the question, why did they need to make the KJV since they already had English translations? Your KJV onlyism is vapid and illogical. Your own words show the error of your thinking.


I have told you and you have not heard. The gospel of Jesus Christ is not dependent on the written word of God being presnt for salvation of a soul to occur, Every gentile during the 40 year history of the apostles work in the book of Acts proves that. Compare the sermon of the apostle Paul as he preached to the Jews on his first missionary journey in Acts 13, and note how he references the OT scriptures, with the Acts 17 sermon when he preaches exclusively to a gentile audience. You will see he made no references to the OT or the Jewish law in Acts 17. There were people saved in that audience. The new Testament was not even written yet. No written scriptures present. Only a saved man, the preaching of the cross, and the Holy Ghost.

However, for saved people to know and understand the mysteries of God, the deep things, he must have two things present. He must have the scriptures and he must be born again of the Spirit and have the Spirit of God living in his body. Why is this necessary you ask? Because the words of God are spiritual words and our doctrines are revealed to us as we compare the words. The NT church age is cloaked with mysteries. Jesus called this age the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven in Matt 13 and Paul called them the mysteries of God in 1 Cor 4. God is not making himself and his ways known to people who will not come to him as a little child. It is impossible for natural men to understand the spiritual thinking of God that is revealed by the Spirit through his carefully chosen words.

The mysteries of the faith are hidden FROM the foundation of the earth. They are hidden in words. They are types. One thing typifies another and the physical oftentimes is a figure of the spiritual truth. The manna is a physical representation of Jesus Christ, who says over and over that he is life. The manna was what gave the children of Israel life in the wilderness wanderings but not while it lay on the ground. It must be eaten. It must be in the body. Jesus brings this type up in John 6 and the spiritual among them were the only ones who understood it.

You translators are careless with the words of God and many of these type are corrupted by your being numb. Only God can maintain the spiritual quality of the words because they are on every page and in every sentence.
One must have the mind of Christ and think in words that he thinks in.

Jn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You translators are careless with the words of God and many of these type are corrupted by your being numb. Only God can maintain the spiritual quality of the words because they are on every page and in every sentence.
One must have the mind of Christ and think in words that he thinks in.
As far as I know, I am the only actual Bible translator on this thread, so this is a direct attack against me. You said that I had been mean to you, etc. I asked you to show me where and I would apologize, but you never did. So, I think you were simply spouting off, and not offended at all.

Yet here you are, being vicious to me, though you don't know the slightest thing about how I translate the Word of God. I am not careless with the Word of God, and I have not corrupted the Word of God.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
I have told you and you have not heard. The gospel of Jesus Christ is not dependent on the written word of God being presnt for salvation of a soul to occur, Every gentile during the 40 year history of the apostles work in the book of Acts proves that. Compare the sermon of the apostle Paul as he preached to the Jews on his first missionary journey in Acts 13, and note how he references the OT scriptures, with the Acts 17 sermon when he preaches exclusively to a gentile audience. You will see he made no references to the OT or the Jewish law in Acts 17. There were people saved in that audience. The new Testament was not even written yet. No written scriptures present. Only a saved man, the preaching of the cross, and the Holy Ghost.

However, for saved people to know and understand the mysteries of God, the deep things, he must have two things present. He must have the scriptures and he must be born again of the Spirit and have the Spirit of God living in his body. Why is this necessary you ask? Because the words of God are spiritual words and our doctrines are revealed to us as we compare the words. The NT church age is cloaked with mysteries. Jesus called this age the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven in Matt 13 and Paul called them the mysteries of God in 1 Cor 4. God is not making himself and his ways known to people who will not come to him as a little child. It is impossible for natural men to understand the spiritual thinking of God that is revealed by the Spirit through his carefully chosen words.

The mysteries of the faith are hidden FROM the foundation of the earth. They are hidden in words. They are types. One thing typifies another and the physical oftentimes is a figure of the spiritual truth. The manna is a physical representation of Jesus Christ, who says over and over that he is life. The manna was what gave the children of Israel life in the wilderness wanderings but not while it lay on the ground. It must be eaten. It must be in the body. Jesus brings this type up in John 6 and the spiritual among them were the only ones who understood it.

You translators are careless with the words of God and many of these type are corrupted by your being numb. Only God can maintain the spiritual quality of the words because they are on every page and in every sentence.
One must have the mind of Christ and think in words that he thinks in.

Jn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

You have claimed that there can only be one inspired English translation and you have made the errant assumption that the KJV is that one. Two problems 1] since there were English translation prior to the KJV what makes you think God did not inspire one of those? 2] How do you know that God did not inspire one of the translations made after the KJV?

For an inspired text {your KJV} it sure did need a lot of corrections the KJV was done in 1611, and then redone in 1629 & 1638 & 1760 & 1769 which one do you consider to be the inspired one. Or did God just not get it right the first, second, third, or fourth time. Or perhaps those translators were just careless with the words of God.
If you want to use the KJV then do so but to claim that it is the only true translation of the word of God is just foolish on your part.
 
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