The Penal Substitutionary Satisfaction by Jesus Christ in "The Council of Peace" from Eternity Past.

[Alan Gross]

Adapted from: John Gill
A Body of Doctrinal Divinity

Book 6 Chapter 5
Of the Satisfaction of Christ

The ground and foundation on which the Satisfaction of Christ is laid,
and upon which the Satisfaction of Christ proceeds,
are The Council and Covenant of Grace,
and the Suretyship engagements of Christ therein.

The Scheme of Making Peace with God, or of Appeasing Divine Justice,
and of Making Reconciliation for sin, that is, Satisfaction for it,
was planned in The Everlasting Council;

which, from thence is called, "the council of peace," (Zechariah 6:13).

"God was" then "in Christ," or with Christ, "reconciling the world,"
the whole number of the Elect, "to himself;" that is,
they were consulting together to form The Plan of Their Reconciliation and Salvation;

and the method they pitched upon was, "not imputing their trespasses to them;"

not to reckon and place to their account, their sins and iniquities,
and insist upon a satisfaction for them from themselves;

for God knew, that if he made a demand of satisfaction for them on them,
they could not answer him, one man of a thousand, no, not one at all;

nor for one sin of a thousand, no, not for a single one;

and that if he brought a charge of sin against them, they must be condemned;

for they would not be able to give one reason or say anything on their own behalf,
why judgment should not proceed against them;

wherefore, "Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect?"
since God will not, whoever does, it will be of no avail against them;

for "it is God that justifies" them:
and happy are the persons interested in this Glorious Scheme,
to whom the Lord "imputes not iniquity:"

and it was also further devised in this Council,
to impute the transgressions of the said persons to Christ, the Son of God;

which, though not expressed in the text referred to (2 Corinthians 5:19;

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them;

and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation".),

yet it is implied and understood, and in clear and full terms signified,
in the verse following but one,
in which the account of the Scheme of Reconciliation is continued;

"For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;"

that is, the sinless Jesus, Who was made sin,
not inherently, by a transfusion of sin into Him, which His Holy Nature would not admit of;

but imputatively, by a transfer of the guilt of sin unto Him,
by placing the guilt of sin to His account,
and making Him answerable for the guilt of sin;

which was done, not merely at the time of His suffering and death,
though then God openly and manifestly "laid upon him,"
or made to meet on Him, "the iniquity of us all," of all the Lord's people,
when "the chastisement of their peace was on him;"
or the punishment of their sin was inflicted on Him, to make peace for them;

but as early as The Council of Peace was held,
and the above method was concerted and agreed to,

or Christ became a Surety for his people,
so early were their sins imputed to Him,
and He became responsible for them;

and this laid the foundation of His making satisfaction for sin.

Because, the Scheme drawn in Council, was settled in covenant;
which, on that account, is called "The Covenant of Peace," (Isaiah 54:10;

"For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed;
but my kindness shall not depart from thee,
neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed,
saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

Malachi 2:5; "My covenant was with him of life and peace;
and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me,
and was afraid before my name.")

in which covenant Christ was called to be a Priest;

for Christ glorified not Himself to be called a Priest;

but His Father bestowed this honor on Him, and consecrated, constituted,
and ordained Him a Priest with an oath (Psalm 110:4;

"The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent,
Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek").

Now the principal business of a priest,
was to make reconciliation and atonement for sin;

for the sake of this Christ was called to this office;

and it was signified to Him in Covenant,
that He should not offer such sacrifices and offerings
as were offered up under the law, which could not take away sin, or atone for it;

and though God would have these offered, as typical of Christ's atoning sacrifice,
from the beginning, throughout the former dispensation,
to the coming of Christ;

yet it was not His Will that any of this sort should be offered by Him;

"Sacrifice and offering you would not:"

and therefore, though Christ was a Priest, He never offered any legal sacrifice;

but when anything of this kind was necessary to be done
for persons He was concerned with,
He always sent them to carry their offerings to a priest;

as in the case of cleansing lepers (Matthew 8:4;

"And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man;
but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest,
and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them".

Luke 17:14; "And when he saw them, he said unto them,
Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass,
that, as they went, they were cleansed."),

a sacrifice of another kind, and to answer a greater purpose,
was to be offered by Him, and which in Covenant was provided;

"A body have you prepared me,"

which is put for the whole human nature;

for not the body of Christ only, but His soul also,
were made an offering for sin (Hebrews 10:5;

"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith,
Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:"

10:10; "By the which will we are sanctified
through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

Isaiah 53:10; "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.")

and this offering for sin was made by Christ's suffering and dying
in the room and stead of sinners,
when he was wounded for their transgressions, and bruised for their sins,
and stricken for their iniquities;

that is, to make satisfaction for them;

this was what was enjoined in Covenant;

this commandment He received from His Father,
and He was obedient to it, even to die the death of the cross;

and this work was proposed and appointed to Him in Covenant,
and declared in prophecy, in order to finish the transgression, make an end of sin,
and make reconciliation for iniquity;

and this He did by the sacrifice of Himself.

Now as this whole Scheme was drawn in Council, and settled in Covenant,
it was proposed to Christ, and He readily agreed to it,
and became The Surety of The Covenant, the Better Testament;

and engaged to assume human nature, to do and suffer in it,
all that the law and justice of God could require, and should demand of Him,
in the room and stead of sinners, in order to make full satisfaction for their sins,
of which the above things are the ground and foundation.

 

[Van]

No need to read the OP presenting the Trojan horse of Limited Atonement, denying Christ died as a ransom for all.

 

[Arthur King]

Adapted from: John Gill
A Body of Doctrinal Divinity

Book 6 Chapter 5
Of the Satisfaction of Christ

The ground and foundation on which the Satisfaction of Christ is laid,
and upon which the Satisfaction of Christ proceeds,
are The Council and Covenant of Grace,
and the Suretyship engagements of Christ therein.

The Scheme of Making Peace with God, or of Appeasing Divine Justice,
and of Making Reconciliation for sin, that is, Satisfaction for it,
was planned in The Everlasting Council;

which, from thence is called, "the council of peace," (Zechariah 6:13).

which, though not expressed in the text referred to (2 Corinthians 5:19;

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them;

and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation".),

yet it is implied and understood, and in clear and full terms signified,
in the verse following but one,
in which the account of the Scheme of Reconciliation is continued;

"For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;"

that is, the sinless Jesus, Who was made sin,
not inherently, by a transfusion of sin into Him, which His Holy Nature would not admit of;

but imputatively, by a transfer of the guilt of sin unto Him,
by placing the guilt of sin to His account,
and making Him answerable for the guilt of sin;

which was done, not merely at the time of His suffering and death,
though then God openly and manifestly "laid upon him,"
or made to meet on Him, "the iniquity of us all," of all the Lord's people,
when "the chastisement of their peace was on him;"
or the punishment of their sin was inflicted on Him, to make peace for them;

but as early as The Council of Peace was held,
and the above method was concerted and agreed to,

and though God would have these offered, as typical of Christ's atoning sacrifice,
from the beginning, throughout the former dispensation,
to the coming of Christ;

yet it was not His Will that any of this sort should be offered by Him;

"Sacrifice and offering you would not:"

and therefore, though Christ was a Priest, He never offered any legal sacrifice;

but when anything of this kind was necessary to be done
for persons He was concerned with,
He always sent them to carry their offerings to a priest;

as in the case of cleansing lepers (Matthew 8:4;

"And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man;
but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest,
and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them".
.

You are operating under the wrong definition of the word "propitiation."

Propitiation means wrath reversal or wrath aversion. It means that a punishment currently implemented is reversed/alleviated, or that a future punishment that is threatened is averted. The reason the wrath is reversed is because something has happened so that there is no longer a purpose for the wrath. For example, if I crash into your car and do $1,000 of damage, you will be angry. Your anger threatens me with punishment unless I do certain things, namely pay you restitution and apologize. So when I tell you my insurance company will pay you $5,000 and tell you that I will drive better in the future, your anger will be gone. You will be propitiated. There is no longer a purpose for the wrath because resources were provided to fix what was broken.

But penalty substitution demands a different definition and different mechanism regarding propitiation. Penalty substitution defines propitiation as “wrath exhaustion via displacement.” This means that the threatened wrath must be exhausted either on the offender or a substitute standing in for the offender. On penalty substitution, it is not enough for the anger to simply be averted. The anger must be vented. It must be carried out, or there is an injustice. Punishment must be carried out for punishment’s sake. It would be as if I came to you with $5,000 to fix your car and you said, “Nope, call up the insurance company and have them instead provide me with a car of equal worth to my own, that I can do $1,000 worth of damage to. I need to exhaust my retributive anger, and justice will not be satisfied until my anger is exhausted. Only then will I be propitiated.” This is ridiculous, and it would do nothing to fix the car, but it is exactly how the penalty substitution advocate understands the cross. God has wrath against humanity because our sin has damaged His infinite worth, and His wrath must be satisfied either on us or on Jesus to an infinite degree. Jesus stands in place of humanity and suffers his wrath, exhausting it via displacement, thus achieving propitiation. But this mechanism of wrath displacement is nowhere in Scripture.

 

[Alan Gross]

"The Doctrine of Satisfaction is closely related to
and included in The Doctrine of Redemption,
made by paying a satisfactory price into the hands of justice."

"The Doctrine of Satisfaction is the glory of the Christian religion,
which distinguishes the Christian religion from others;
what gives it the preference to all other religions."

"What Christ has done and suffered,
in the room and stead of sinners, with content,
well pleasedness, and acceptance in the sight of God,
is what may, with propriety, be called "satisfaction;"

"and this is plentifully spoken of in the word of God;

"as when God is said to be
"well pleased for Christ's righteousness sake,"

"The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake;
he will magnify the law, and make it honorable." Isaiah 42:21

"and with it, The Doctrine of Satisfaction
being answerable to the demands of law and justice;

"and is an honoring and magnifying of the law;

"and when the sacrifice of Christ, and such His sufferings are,
is said to be of a "sweet smelling savor to God;"
because it has expiated sin, atoned for it;

"that is, the sacrifice of Christ made satisfaction for sin,
and taken it away;

"which the sacrifices under the law could not do;

"hence there was a remembrance of it every year
(Ephesians 5:2; "And walk in love,
as Christ also hath loved us,
and hath given himself for us an offering
and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savor."),

"and there are terms and phrases which are used of Christ,
and of His work; as "Atoning Sacrifice, Reconciliation, Atonement," etc.
which are equivalent and synonymous with satisfaction for sin,
and expressive of The Doctrine of Satisfaction;"

Adapted from: John Gill
A Body of Doctrinal Divinity

Book 6 Chapter 5
Of the Satisfaction of Christ

Atoning Sacrifice, Reconciliation, Propitiation,
Penal Substitutionary Atonement,
and The Doctrine of Redemption are all equivalent
and synonymous with The Doctrine of Satisfaction.

God has wrath against humanity because our sin has damaged His infinite worth,

God has wrath against the souls of the lost
who will suffer His wrath in Hell, forever,
and God has wrath against His chosen Elect children
that was suffered by Jesus Christ.

"And she shall bring forth a son,
and thou shalt call his name JESUS:
for he shall save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21.

and His wrath must be satisfied either on us or on Jesus to an infinite degree.

His wrath must be satisfied either on
the souls of the lost
who will suffer His wrath in Hell, forever,
or on Jesus to an infinite degree.

Jesus stands in place of humanity

Jesus stands in the place of God's chosen Elect.

God did not punish Jesus for the wrath the lost
must suffer in Hell, forever.

Jesus stands in place of humanity and suffers his wrath

Jesus stands in the place of God's chosen Elect and suffers God's wrath.

thus achieving propitiation.

 

[JonC]

You are operating under the wrong definition of the word "propitiation."

Propitiation means wrath reversal or wrath aversion.

Good point.

One thing I have noticed over the past decade discussing redemption with Penal Substitution theorists is a tendency to redefine the word "propitiation' as if it were a word invented by biblical writers.

"Propitiation" is a legitimate word, and it does mean (as you point out) wrath reversal or wrath aversion.

God used words that had meaning to a people. He did not invent new meanings for old words (that would not be communication at all). Pagans sought to propitiate gods. Citizens sought to propitiate rulers.

But as long as "doublespeak" is allowed there really can be no meaningful dialogue, or even a mutual understanding of the other's beliefs.

 

[Alan Gross]

Penalty substitution defines propitiation as “wrath exhaustion via displacement.” This means that the threatened wrath must be exhausted either on the offender or a substitute standing in for the offender.

But this mechanism of wrath displacement is nowhere in Scripture.

"Jesus did more than merely deflect the wrath of God from us.

"I believe a word that forcefully captures the essence of Jesus’ work of propitiation is the word exhausted. Jesus exhausted the wrath of God. It was not merely deflected and prevented from reaching us; it was exhausted. Jesus bore the full, unmitigated brunt of it. God’s wrath against sin was unleashed in all its fury on His beloved Son. He held nothing back.

"The prophet Isaiah foretold this when he wrote, “yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed” (Isaiah 53:4-5, emphasis added).

"Note the italicized words: stricken, smitten, afflicted, pierced, crushed, punishment, wounds. They describe the pouring out of God’s wrath on His Son. During those awful hours when Jesus hung on the cross, the cup of God’s wrath was completely turned upside down. Christ exhausted the cup of God’s wrath. For all who trust in Him, there is nothing more in the cup. It is empty.

"It was the immediate prospect of drinking the cup of God’s wrath that caused Jesus such intense agony in the Garden of Gethsemane. That is why the Scriptures say, “And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground” (Luke 22:44). That is why as Jesus hung on the cross, He cried out, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

"And then at the end of those terrible hours Jesus again cried out, “It is finished” (John 19:30; see also Mark 15:37). This was not a cry of relief, but a cry of triumph. He had accomplished what He came to do, to save His people from the wrath of God. And He did this, not merely by deflecting it away from us, but by consuming it in His own person."

—Jerry Bridges,
The Gospel for Real Life:
Turn to the Liberating Power of the Cross…Every Day
(Colorado Springs, NavPress, 2002), p. 56-57.

 

[Alan Gross]

You are operating under the wrong definition of the word "propitiation."

I didn't bring up the word 'propitiation' in the OP that I know of.

I brought up:
"For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;"

that is, the sinless Jesus, Who was made sin,
not inherently, by a transfusion of sin into Him, which His Holy Nature would not admit of;

but imputatively, by a transfer of the guilt of sin unto Him,
by placing the guilt of sin to His account,
and making Him answerable for the guilt of sin;

which was done, not merely at the time of His suffering and death,
though then God openly and manifestly "laid upon him,"
or made to meet on Him, "the iniquity of us all," of all the Lord's people,
when "the chastisement of their peace was on him;"
or the punishment of their sin was inflicted on Him, to make peace for them.

Penal Substitutionary Atonement.
...

Nevertheless, 'propitiation' came up afterward in the thread.

"Propitiation" is a legitimate word, and it does mean (as you point out) wrath reversal or wrath aversion.

Propitiation means wrath reversal or wrath aversion. It means that a punishment currently implemented is reversed/alleviated, or that a future punishment that is threatened is averted. The reason the wrath is reversed is because something has happened so that there is no longer a purpose for the wrath.

"Propitiation means wrath reversal or wrath aversion.
It means that a punishment currently implemented..."

Currently, implemented on whom/ Whom?

The punishment currently implemented was on Jesus.

This averted the Wrath from His saved children.

It did not avert the punishment from being implemented on Jesus Christ.

Jesus' Penal Substitutionary Atoning Sacrifice accomplished
Redemption from and Satisfaction of the law and Wrath of God.

from: Propitiation - The Gospel Coalition

1. In the Bible, God’s wrath is about his righteousness, justice, and holiness. It is an expression of his perfect holy nature in the just indictment of serious human sin and moral depravity. People destroy other people’s lives (and their own) by sin. God is not indifferent to that. His wrath is his righteous response. He hates sin, and rightly so.

2. In the Bible, God is always the one who provides the sacrifice—the propitiation that we need. People do not come up with a strategy to manipulate and placate God with a sacrifice of our own choosing. In love, God provides to and for us precisely what his own justice demands so that his righteous wrath is addressed, and his mercy to us is just.

3. The background for propitiation is seen in the Old Testament covenant ceremonies and in the sacrificial system. The bloodshed in those rites represented what sin deserved. When God ratified his covenant with Abram in Genesis 15, animals were slaughtered as part of an oath of self-malediction (calling down a curse upon oneself if one is unfaithful). The slaughtered animals represented what unfaithfulness deserved: death. And in the Mosaic sacrificial system, God explicitly explains:

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul." Lev 17:11.

That is God—knowing that his people would sin and break his law—in love and grace provided blood sacrifice in order to turn away his just judgment from falling on them, assure his continued fellowship with them, and cover their sin in his sight.

4. In the New Testament—especially the book of Hebrews—it is made clear that Jesus is the real sacrifice. The Old Testament animal sacrifices were ineffectual. They could not quit God’s wrath or provide pardon for sin:

“For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins”
Heb 10:4.

“But Christ offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins”
Heb 10:12.

"Both propitiation (of God’s righteous wrath) and expiation (covering our sins) are part of Jesus’ substitutionary sacrificial death on the cross."
...
con't

 

[Alan Gross]

What Are the Concepts of Expiation and Propitiation?

"The two concepts of Expiation and Propitiation can be placed under the larger theological term of atonement.

"Expiation is defined as the removal of sin or guilt.

"Propitiation, on the other hand, has to do with the appeasement of God’s anger.

2434 hilasmós – properly, propitiation; an offering to appease (satisfy) an angry, offended party.

By the sacrifice of Himself, Jesus Christ provided the ultimate 2434 /hilasmós ("propitiation").

"Both expiation and propitiation
come together at the cross in the atoning work of Christ.

"Therefore, it is helpful to understand atonement when thinking about these concepts.

"With this in mind, let’s first examine how atonement, and by default expiation and propitiation, apply to us.

"The atoning work of Christ encompasses four needs that we as sinners have, and how Christ’s death meets those needs.


The Sinners’ Needs:

1. We are held accountable for our sin, and the penalty of sin is death Romans 6:23; "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord".

2. Because of our sin, we deserve to bear the wrath of God as punishment John 3:36; "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

3. Our sin separates us from God Isaiah 59:2; "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."

4. We are enslaved to sin and Satan.

1 John 3:4-10; "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."


The Merciful Atoning Work of Christ:

1. The penalty of death that we deserved because of our sin was satisfied through Jesus’ death on the cross. Jesus meets our needs through the expiation of our sin.

Hebrews 9:26; "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.".

2. To remove the wrath of God from us, and appease His anger towards our sin, Christ died for us.

“Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.”
1 John 4:10.

3. In order to overcome our separation from God, we need someone to reconcile us back to God, so that we can live in harmony with Him. Through Christ, God has reconciled us back to Him, and given us the gift of reconciliation with one another.

2 Corinthians 5:17-21;
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

4. Because we are enslaved to sin and Satan, we need someone to redeem us from our captivity. Through Christ’s death, “God the Father has delivered us from the dominion of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of His beloved Son” Colossians 1:13. Jesus redeemed us from the power of the evil one by putting our sin to death on the cross and making a way from us to become children of God.

1 John 5:18-20; "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

19 "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

20 "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

Romans 6:11; "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."
...
con't

 

[Alan Gross]

Again, in a comparative word study;

What does "expiation" and "propitiation" mean?

"Expiation means "to make amends" or "to atone for", and it implies the removal or cleansing of sin. It can also be seen as "the removal of the reasons for punishment".

"If Christ's atonement was only an expiation of sin, then it meant that God acted as the subject that covered the sins of human beings so that God forgave it.

"Too much emphasis on expiation risks making God as only concerned with the legal aspects of sin; Jesus merely covered sin.

"Propitiation means "to make favorable", and it refers to averting God's wrath against sinners. It is the act that appeased the total and full wrath of God's judgment for the sins of human beings.

"Because of the appeasement's completeness, propitiation is also understood as "satisfaction."

"If Christ's atonement was only a propitiation, then it meant that God was the object receiving the sin offering satisfying God's holy anger towards sin so that forgiven human beings could come into the presence of God.

"Too much emphasis on propitiation risks making God as tyrannical and only concerned with appeasement, which is contrary to His character of righteousness and justice; Jesus merely satisfied God' holy anger."

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Propitiation means wrath reversal or wrath aversion. It means that a punishment currently implemented is reversed/alleviated, or that a future punishment that is threatened is averted.

That is not what it means. A propitiation is a sacrifice or offering that turns away righteous anger. In the Greek, hilasmos (1 John 2:2; 4:10) or hilasterion (Romans 3:25) refers to the mercy seat in the Holiest Place in the Temple, where the High Priest went only once a year, having first made atonement for his own sins, to make propitiation for the people (Hebrews 9:7). But the Mercy Seat in the Temple was only a copy of the original in heaven which is where Christ came to offer Himself as the one perfect, spotless sacrifice. That is why God's righteous anger is turned away from all those for whom Christ died.
Now, let's bring this up to the present day. If, God forbid, I should do something to upset Mrs Marprelate, I must then do something to appease her righteous anger against me. I therefore buy her a bunch of flowers as a propitiation: an offering to turn away her wrath from me. Of course, I don't know whether she will be propitiated by a bunch of flowers; she might hold out for a slap-up meal and a night at the theatre. But we know that God is satisfied by the propitiation made by the Lord Jesus, because it was God Himself who set Him forth as a propitiation (Romans 3:25). Now let's look again at your car analogy.

The reason the wrath is reversed is because something has happened so that there is no longer a purpose for the wrath. For example, if I crash into your car and do $1,000 of damage, you will be angry. Your anger threatens me with punishment unless I do certain things, namely pay you restitution and apologize. So when I tell you my insurance company will pay you $5,000 and tell you that I will drive better in the future, your anger will be gone. You will be propitiated. There is no longer a purpose for the wrath because resources were provided to fix what was broken

This really won't do, as I told you before. The reason it won't do is that the law is not involved. If (God forbid again) you have been drinking or driving dangerously when you crash into my car, your insurance company paying me will not satisfy the demands of the law. You will have to pay the penalty the law prescribes In the eyes of God, sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4; cf. Matthew 7:23). God is "by no means clearing the guilty" (Exodus 34:7). Sinners must lay the penalty that God in His righteousness and justice has prescribed.

Yet Christians are told that 'If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness' (1 John 1:9). How is that possible? How can God become an abomination to Himself by clearing the guilty (cf. Proverbs 17:15)? Because, just a few verses on we are told, 'And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous' (1 John 2:1-2). So the Lord Jesus is our 'defence counsel' when we break God's holy laws. What does He say in our defence? Does He say, "This person is not guilty!"? Hardly! We have already confessed our sins (1 John 1:9). So what does He say? He says, "Father, I have already paid the penalty for the sins of this person in full. Your justice is fully satisfied." And it is! 'He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.' Jew and Gentile, black and white, rich and poor, God is satisfied with the propitiation of Christ because. 'Upon Him was the chastisement that brought us peace' (Isaiah 53:5).

'Mercy and truth have met together; righteousness and peace have kissed' (Psalms 85:10) in the satisfaction or God's righteous anger brought about by the Lord Jesus Christ. That is why 'There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus' (Romans 8:1) and why God can be 'Just and the justifier of the one who believes in Jesus.'

This is all so wonderful, and so clearly laid out for us in the Bible that I am at a loss to understand how any Christian can have a problem with it.

 

[Arthur King]

That is not what it means. A propitiation is a sacrifice or offering that turns away righteous anger. In the Greek, hilasmos (1 John 2:2; 4:10) or hilasterion (Romans 3:25) refers to the mercy seat in the Holiest Place in the Temple, where the High Priest went only once a year, having first made atonement for his own sins, to make propitiation for the people (Hebrews 9:7). But the Mercy Seat in the Temple was only a copy of the original in heaven which is where Christ came to offer Himself as the one perfect, spotless sacrifice. That is why God's righteous anger is turned away from all those for whom Christ died.
Now, let's bring this up to the present day. If, God forbid, I should do something to upset Mrs Marprelate, I must then do something to appease her righteous anger against me. I therefore buy her a bunch of flowers as a propitiation: an offering to turn away her wrath from me. Of course, I don't know whether she will be propitiated by a bunch of flowers; she might hold out for a slap-up meal and a night at the theatre. But we know that God is satisfied by the propitiation made by the Lord Jesus, because it was God Himself who set Him forth as a propitiation (Romans 3:25). Now let's look again at your car analogy.

This really won't do, as I told you before. The reason it won't do is that the law is not involved. If (God forbid again) you have been drinking or driving dangerously when you crash into my car, your insurance company paying me will not satisfy the demands of the law. You will have to pay the penalty the law prescribes In the eyes of God, sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4; cf. Matthew 7:23). God is "by no means clearing the guilty" (Exodus 34:7). Sinners must lay the penalty that God in His righteousness and justice has prescribed.

Yet Christians are told that 'If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness' (1 John 1:9). How is that possible? How can God become an abomination to Himself by clearing the guilty (cf. Proverbs 17:15)? Because, just a few verses on we are told, 'And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous' (1 John 2:1-2). So the Lord Jesus is our 'defence counsel' when we break God's holy laws. What does He say in our defence? Does He say, "This person is not guilty!"? Hardly! We have already confessed our sins (1 John 1:9). So what does He say? He says, "Father, I have already paid the penalty for the sins of this person in full. Your justice is fully satisfied." And it is! 'He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.' Jew and Gentile, black and white, rich and poor, God is satisfied with the propitiation of Christ because. 'Upon Him was the chastisement that brought us peace' (Isaiah 53:5).

'Mercy and truth have met together; righteousness and peace have kissed' (Psalms 85:10) in the satisfaction or God's righteous anger brought about by the Lord Jesus Christ. That is why 'There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus' (Romans 8:1) and why God can be 'Just and the justifier of the one who believes in Jesus.'

This is all so wonderful, and so clearly laid out for us in the Bible that I am at a loss to understand how any Christian can have a problem with it.

"That is not what it means. A propitiation is a sacrifice or offering that turns away righteous anger."

That is exactly what I said.

I have no problem with your lovely flower analogy.

"The reason it won't do is that the law is not involved."

Yes it is. The law compels me to pay for the damage I have caused.

"You will have to pay the penalty the law prescribes"

What do you mean "pay the penalty"? Do you mean "make payment" or do you mean "be punished"? The phrase "pay the penalty" is modern Western legal jargon, but the phrase actually makes no sense and it is a poor concept to project on to the biblical text, which makes no such confusion regarding restitution and retribution. Payment and punishment are different things.

How many years in prison does it take to fix a car? Ten? Twenty? Thirty? Oh, punishment can't pay to fix the car? So why are you using the phrase "pay the penalty" if punishment can't pay anything?

And you are punished for your sins:

Physical death is a punishment for sin. You will physically die.
Toil at work is a punishment for sin. You will toil at work.
Strife in marriage is a punishment for sin. You will experience strife in marriage.
Exile from paradise and the presence of God is a punishment for sin. You are currently exiled from paradise and the presence of God.

If Jesus was punished in your place for your sins as your substitute, then why do you still experience all these punishments?

 

[Arthur King]

Again, in a comparative word study;

What does "expiation" and "propitiation" mean?

"Expiation means "to make amends" or "to atone for", and it implies the removal or cleansing of sin. It can also be seen as "the removal of the reasons for punishment".

"If Christ's atonement was only an expiation of sin, then it meant that God acted as the subject that covered the sins of human beings so that God forgave it.

"Too much emphasis on expiation risks making God as only concerned with the legal aspects of sin; Jesus merely covered sin.

"Propitiation means "to make favorable", and it refers to averting God's wrath against sinners. It is the act that appeased the total and full wrath of God's judgment for the sins of human beings.

"Because of the appeasement's completeness, propitiation is also understood as "satisfaction."

"If Christ's atonement was only a propitiation, then it meant that God was the object receiving the sin offering satisfying God's holy anger towards sin so that forgiven human beings could come into the presence of God.

"Too much emphasis on propitiation risks making God as tyrannical and only concerned with appeasement, which is contrary to His character of righteousness and justice; Jesus merely satisfied God' holy anger."

Hi Alan, I really appreciate your responses, but they are just too scattered for me to be able to respond. Could you pick one main argument, or list a series of clear arguments for me to respond? Happy to engage, I just can't' follow your bullet lists of verses and comments.

 

[Alan Gross]

your bullet lists of verses and comments

I meant to say that they were just a scattering of nice verses and outlines.

A couple of thoughts here and there to peruse that time.

Taking a shotgun blast at the handful of nuances involved in the controversy.

“wrath exhaustion via displacement.”

Vs

wrath reversal or wrath aversion

This comparison of 'over emphasising' the expiration or propitiation elements of the Atonement is interesting, if they are defined correctly enough.

"Expiation means "to make amends" or "to atone for", and it implies the removal or cleansing of sin. It can also be seen as "the removal of the reasons for punishment".

"If Christ's atonement was only an expiation of sin, then it meant that God acted as the subject that covered the sins of human beings so that God forgave it.

"Too much emphasis on expiation risks making God as only concerned with the legal aspects of sin; Jesus merely covered sin.

"Propitiation means "to make favorable", and it refers to averting God's wrath against sinners. It is the act that appeased the total and full wrath of God's judgment for the sins of human beings.

"Because of the appeasement's completeness, propitiation is also understood as "satisfaction."

"If Christ's atonement was only a propitiation, then it meant that God was the object receiving the sin offering satisfying God's holy anger towards sin so that forgiven human beings could come into the presence of God.

"Too much emphasis on propitiation risks making God as tyrannical and only concerned with appeasement, which is contrary to His character of righteousness and justice; Jesus merely satisfied God' holy anger."

 

[JonC]

"That is not what it means. A propitiation is a sacrifice or offering that turns away righteous anger."

That is exactly what I said.

I mostly agree with your post.

But I think that the above definition adds something that is not actually in the word "propitiation".

Given that we are talking about God's wrath, it is certainly righteous. But passages using "propitiation" are not making a declaration on the nature of God's wrath (other than it exists and we escape it in Christ).

Allowing the definition to include "righteous" is unnecessary and can lead to a tangent on God's wrath itself (which is not in focus in the passages mentioning "propitiation").

Pagans propitiated the wrath of their gods by offering sacrifices. Often this wrath was not just. People propitiated the wrath of kings, often unjust wrath.

My concern is that some here redefine words in an attempt to bend Scripture to their understanding.

Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world. He is the Sacrifice in Whom we escape the coming wrath.

Writing this I guess it is nitpicking. But I have been involved in discussions where giving an inch leads to them taking a mile.

 

[Alan Gross]

So what does He say? He says, "Father, I have already paid the penalty for the sins of this person in full. Your justice is fully satisfied."

The Purchase Price of the Penalty Paid by Jesus,
to clear the guilty as God's Wrath and Vindictive Avenging Justice is Satisfied,
when Christ is said “to redeem” men “unto God by his blood”.

Adapted from: John Gill
A Body of Doctrinal Divinity

Book 6 Chapter 2
Of the Redemption of Christ



"The means by which redemption is wrought out by Christ; and that is by his blood, his life, to which it is often ascribed.

Eph. 1:7; "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"

1 Pet. 1:18, 19; "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;"

19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"

Rev. 5:9; "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation";

"this was shed, and shed freely, for the remission of sins, and for the redemption of men; had it been shed involuntarily, by accident, or by force, against his will, it would not have been a proper redemption price, or have answered such an end;

"but it was purposely and voluntarily shed, and with full consent; Christ, as he had the full disposal of his own life, freely gave his life a ransom price for many;

“I lay down my life for the sheep”, says he, as a ransom price for them;

“I lay it down of myself” (Matt. 20:28; John 10:15, 18), and the blood that was thus freely shed was the same with that of those for whom it was shed, which was necessary;

"not the blood of bulls and goats, which could not be an adequate price of redemption, but human blood;

"Christ partook of the same flesh and blood with the children for whom he died; only with this difference, it was not tainted with sin as theirs is; which is another requisite of the ransom price;

"it must be the blood of an innocent person, as Christ was: much notice is taken in scripture of the innocence, holiness, and righteousness of the Redeemer;

"that he was holy in his nature, blameless in life, knew no sin, nor ever committed any; that he, the just and Holy One, suffered for the unjust;

"a great emphasis is put upon this, that the price with which men are redeemed is “the precious blood of Christ, as of a Lamb without blemish and without spot” (1 Pet. 1:18, 19), for if he had had any sin in him, he could not have been a redeemer from sin, nor his blood the price of redemption: and yet more than all this, it is necessary to make this price a full and adequate one, it must not be the blood of a mere creature, but of one that is God as well as man, and such is Christ;

"hence God, who is Christ, is said to “purchase the church with his own blood”;

"being God and man in one person, this gave his blood a sufficient virtue to make such a purchase; and a peculiar emphasis is put upon his blood, being the “blood of” Jesus Christ “the Son of God”, which cleanses from all sin (Acts 20:28; 1 John 1:7).

"Now this price is paid into the hands of God, whose justice is offended, whose law is broken, and who is the lawgiver, that is able to save and to destroy; and against whom all sin is committed: and who will not clear the guilty unless his justice is satisfied; for he is the judge of all the earth, who will do right; wherefore Christ is said “to redeem” men “unto God by his blood” (Rev. 5:9).

"The price of redemption, which is the blood of Christ, was paid unto God, whereby redemption from vindictive justice was obtained;

"it was not paid into the hands of Satan, or any other enemy that had power over the redeemed; for the power of Satan was only an usurpation; he had no legal right to hold them captives; and therefore the delivery of them out of his hand is by power and not by price: but the justice of God had a legal right to shut them up, and detain them as prisoners, till satisfaction was given;

and therefore redemption from avenging justice, which is properly the redemption that is by Christ, is by a price paid to justice for the ransom of them."

 

[Alan Gross]

A propitiation is a sacrifice or offering that turns away righteous anger. In the Greek, hilasmos (1 John 2:2; 4:10) or hilasterion (Romans 3:25) refers to the mercy seat in the Holiest Place in the Temple, where the High Priest went only once a year, having first made atonement for his own sins, to make propitiation for the people (Hebrews 9:7). But the Mercy Seat in the Temple was only a copy of the original in heaven which is where Christ came to offer Himself as the one perfect, spotless sacrifice. That is why God's righteous anger is turned away from all those for whom Christ died.

At this embedded link;
A Word Study of the Greek Terms Hilastērion and Hilasmos
Expiation verses Propitiation
there are also nice treatments of;
The Septuagint (LLX) usage of "hilastērion" and "hilasmos",
& Extrabiblical Usage of "hilastērion" and "hilasmos",

This is;
The NewTestament
usage of "hilastērion" and "hilasmos",

"The Greek nouns "hilastērion" and "hilasmos" are used in four instances of the New Testament:

"whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation (hilastērion) in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;" (Rom 3:25)

"and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat (hilastērion); but of these things we cannot now speak in detail." (Heb 9:5)

"and He Himself is the propitiation (hilasmos) for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." (1 John 2:2)

"In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation (hilasmos) for our sins." (1 John 4:10)

"Romans 3:25 and Hebrews 9:5 draw parallels of Jesus Christ with the Old Testament sacrificial system and specifically to the process of the forgiveness of sin.

"Romans 3:25 refers to the "forbearance of God" in passing over sins just as the Old Testament sacrificial system of sprinkling sacrificed blood on the place of propitiation.

"Hebrews 9:5 reviews the Old Testament sacrificial system to the New Testament audience and associates the blood of Jesus with the blood of the sacrificed unblemished male lamb that was sprinkled on the place of propitiation.

"Romans 3:25 and Hebrews 9:5 symbolically identify Jesus Christ as the place of propitiation.

"For the Jewish audience, the sacrificial system reminded them of the ritual requirements for the expiation of sin.

"For the Greek audience, the ritual reminded them of the process of appeasing a wrathful god.

"And yet Paul's God (Rom 3:25) is like no other because He provides the propitiation "in His blood"; unlike Greek gods, no man could bribe or appease the righteous judgment of God.

"While the blood of Jesus Christ expiates (covers) the sins of human beings, Jesus Christ Himself is the place where propitiation takes place. Only through faith in Jesus Christ is man forgiven.

"Hilasmos" in 1 John 2:2 and 1 John 4:10, refers to the death of Jesus with a nuance of meaning similar to the extrabiblical Greek usage: a sacrifice that appeases the wrath of God and makes God propitious (favorable) towards human beings.

"In this New Testament usage, Jesus Christ is called the "propitiation of our sins", because He substitutes Himself in our place and assumes the penalty of our sins.

"The context of 1 John 2 casts Jesus as our Advocate who defends us against God's anger.

"The context of 1 John 4 portrays God as a God of love, who sent His only Son to atone for our sins so that we may not receive His wrath. God's grace should motivate our love for others.

Conclusion
"The New Testament use of the Greek nouns "hilastērion" and "hilasmos" bring to light a clearer picture of the work of Jesus Christ; the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was more than simply an "expiation", and it was more than simply a "propitiation".

"It was an act that accomplished both functions and emphasized the unique character of Jesus and provided the logical basis of salvation: belief in His atonement for your sins.

"Because both expiation and propitiation are directed towards God, these acts are viewed as illustrating the objective aspects of atonement.

"Yet by themselves, they do not portray a complete picture of Christ's work of atonement. Just as important as it is to understand God's legal and judicial viewpoint, we must understand that God's intent of atonement was directed toward human beings as well.

"The atonement of Jesus Christ is both an expiation and a propitiation. When Jesus speaks of fulfilling the Law in Matthew 5:17, He meant it in a literal sense.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Just as the Old Testament High Priest applied the blood of the sacrificed goat on the mercy seat to expiate the sins of Israel, Jesus Christ, the High Priest Himself, provided the blood for the expiation of sins of human beings.

"Just as the kapporet was the "place of propitiation", Jesus became the "mercy seat", the place of propitiation for human beings, and satisfied the judgment of God.

"The Mosaic legislation clearly was concerned about both sin and justice and in Jesus, the Mosaic Law was truly fulfilled.

"God initiates the process, He provides Himself as the only acceptable sacrifice, He administers the penalty against sin, He experiences His own wrath of judicial judgment and He receives His own sacrifice and justice.

"And it is only through a belief that Jesus Christ did indeed die and atoned for the sins of human beings that one may be forgiven and restore their relationship with God."
...

This comparison of 'over-emphasising' the expiration or propitiation elements of the Atonement is interesting if they are defined correctly enough.

at: The Penal Substitutionary Satisfaction
by Jesus Christ in "The Council of Peace" from Eternity Past.

There is a balance.

 

[JonC]

He says, "Father, I have already paid the penalty for the sins of this person in full. Your justice is fully satisfied."

Where on earth did you find that verse?

Scripture does not offer forgiveness based on somebody already paying the penalty for sins. That is not forgiveness at all (in fact, it is the opposite of forgiveness.....it is retribution).

 

[Alan Gross]

Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

New thread, just because it is important for other folks to see:
"He is the propitiation for our sins...
also for the sins of the whole world." I John 2:2.

 

[Alan Gross]

Scripture does not offer forgiveness based on somebody already paying the penalty for sins.

Martin Marprelate was asked, not me; and he can certainly answer for himself quite adequately, but my thought is that this is:

"Father, I have already paid the penalty for the sins of this person in full. Your justice is fully satisfied", is:

forgiveness.

based on:

Reconciliation

Satisfaction

The Doctrine of Redemption

Penal Substitutionary Atonement

propitiation ... a sacrifice or offering that turns away righteous anger

atonement

sacrifice

and as;

“wrath exhaustion via displacement.” ... the threatened wrath must be exhausted either on the offender or a substitute standing in for the offender.

...

That is not forgiveness at all (in fact, it is the opposite of forgiveness.....it is retribution).

I don't see "Father, I have already paid the penalty for the sins of this person in full. Your justice is fully satisfied", as 'punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance', like retribution.
...

Propitiation means wrath reversal or wrath aversion. It means that a punishment currently implemented is reversed/alleviated, or that a future punishment that is threatened is averted.

The reason the wrath is reversed is because something has happened so that there is no longer a purpose for the wrath.

So, there is no Wrath that was poured out on Jesus?

Jesus being a propitiation reversed Wrath from Him? or God's children?

What happened in the case of Jesus' Passion, where you say,
"something has happened
so that there is no longer a purpose for the wrath."

"Wrath aversion?

What "punishment currently implemented is reversed/alleviated"?, in Jesus' situation?

What "future punishment that is threatened is averted"?

"What actually 'happened' "so that there is no longer a purpose for the wrath."

 

[JonC]

New thread, just because it is important for other folks to see:
"He is the propitiation for our sins...
also for the sins of the whole world." I John 2:2.

That's fine. It is an important topic.

I enjoy your posts, BTW...John Gill, not so much (I cut my teeth on John Gill, John Knox, John Macarthur....the four Johns of the Apocalypse ....so I see no value in revisiting them in an online forum).