You are calling Irenaeus, John Chrysostom, John Macarthur, Michael Horton, the ESV commentators, etc ALL false teachers?
Philo of Alexandria, Irenaeus, John Chrysostom, Michael Horton, the ESV commentators, didn't even remotely say one thing anywhere near what you and John MacArthur said.
Why don't you try your questions like this on somebody 18 years old?
It'd take a fool to say ......Adam and Eve's possibility of partaking of the Tree of Life and living forever in sin has any relationship to the Hell, which is Eternal punishment in fire.
Their life would be like life is now, for lost people, and we don't hear you begging for a drop of water for your tongue.
The worst one was Horton, who says Adam would spend all duration or his
posterity in everlasting death.
(When, actually it is neverending life in sin.)
Philo of Alexandria... his immortality becomes a grave misfortune to him.
Irenaeus:
Wherefore also He drove him out of Paradise, and removed him far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, as some venture to assert, but because He pitied him, [and did not desire]
that he should continue a sinner for ever, nor that the sin which surrounded him should be immortal, and evil interminable and irremediable
-John Chrysostom:
Now there is a risk that at some time he may put out his hand and pick fruit from the tree, eat it and live forever.'" In other words, since he had given signs of considerable intemperance through the command already given him (he is saying) and had become subject to death, lest he presume further to lay hold of this tree which offers endless life and go on sinning forever, it would be better for him
-Theodoret of Cyrus:
Now, God had forbidden Adam to partake of the fruit of the tree of life, not because he had begrudged him of eternal life, but to check the course of sin. Indeed, death is healing, not punishment
Theologian Michael Horton: Graciously, God kept Adam from eating the fruit of the Tree of Life, which would have confirmed him and his posterity in everlasting death (Gen 3:22-24).
.-The Crossway commentary on the ESV bible:... For man to live forever (in his sinful condition) is an unbearable thought
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I already dealt with this on John MacArthur. This is a demonstrable, diabolical false teaching the two of you have embraced.
John MacArthur and others (OP) make an attempt to create something called 'hell' concerning the Genesis 3:22-24 narrative, by transforming "living forever in a state of sin", into the euphemism, 'hell', as if it were the actual hell of endless torment in the Lake of Fire.
John MacArthur equates in the same sentence regarding what he calls a horrible existence of living, in the exact sinful State with the presence of sin we currently are experiencing, as "
causing weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth", the way Jesus describes Eternal punishment in the Hell in the Afterlife, for the wicked without Christ.
That is one great leap for John MacArthur, but is no foundation for the rational of Hell, or of a First Mention, or any mention, of Eternal Torment and suffering in the Bible, called anything.
Adam and Eve's possibility of partaking of the Tree of Life and living forever in sin has no relationship to the Hell, which is Eternal punishment in fire.
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It's kind of weird that you would say "well, of course it is okay to use "hell" to refer to these 5 things that refer to everlasting torment, but THAT depiction of everlasting torment we CANNOT use the word "hell" in association with."
Right, because "
THAT depiction of everlasting torment" is simple living in sin, and no different that life on Earth today, endlessly, which is not "hell on earth", the way Satan and the lost would like to and have tried to call it, everyday.
For a Bible teacher to equate living life forever in a sinful State on Earth, to the actual and real torments of burning in an Eternal Lake of Fire is totally irresponsible, inexcusable, and false teaching, by a supposed Bible expositor.
God and His Bible are not involved in it.
Our word "hell" use used to refer to a multitude of things. One of the those images, the first one and foundational one, is the image of humans living forever in a state of sin and death because they ate from the Tree of Life.
Stupid.
From the A. King dictionary?
Show me that definition from Englishman's Greek or Hebrew, or any other Bible reference.
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Okay, let's omit the word "hell" from the discussion and say "
Genesis 3:22-24 is the foundational text for the idea of everlasting torment due to sin."
Torment now is misery.
Do you agree that living forever in a state of sin would be miserable?
Equating "living forever in a state of sin would be miserable", even if you try another identical word for "hell on Earth" and call it, " everlasting "torment" on Earth, just meaning "misery" on Earth
with Eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire, sounds like something
the devil would say.
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Where are you getting these teachings?
One guy. Preaching to tickle the ears of the lost for big money and popularity for sales, and confirming to them the lie that an Eternal Death, suffering and genuinely tormented in FIRE FOREVER, is no different than their everyday struggle.
They might just be down with that struggle and so for them to fear Jesus Who can destroy both body and soul in hell is negated as anymore threat than they face every day, anyway.
They'll just adapt?
How about they would just be being plainly deceived?
