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How were the OT saints saved?
- Thread starter Piper
- Start date
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Same thing as us, only they looked forward to the promised sacrifice and we look back to the realized death, burial, and resurrection of the One we now know as the perfect Sacrifice.
"The Word of the Lord came to" them, preached by Prophets, and through the Divine Ordinances, or God Himself, and the scriptures, etc., to bring them conviction under the law and Grant them Repentance and Faith in the promised Messiah, in the New Birth.
We have a fuller understanding now, but the way of salvation Accomplished through a Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world and the blessings of salvation were, in general, the same, even in their worship as the Greek OT uses the word ekklesia for an assembly, called a church in the New Testament, 66 times.
They were saved by the preaching of the Gospel Accompanied by the Holy Spirit , beginning in Genesis 3:25; "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
"The Word of the Lord came to" them, preached by Prophets, and through the Divine Ordinances, or God Himself, and the scriptures, etc., to bring them conviction under the law and Grant them Repentance and Faith in the promised Messiah, in the New Birth.
We have a fuller understanding now, but the way of salvation Accomplished through a Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world and the blessings of salvation were, in general, the same, even in their worship as the Greek OT uses the word ekklesia for an assembly, called a church in the New Testament, 66 times.
They were saved by the preaching of the Gospel Accompanied by the Holy Spirit , beginning in Genesis 3:25; "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
Hebrews 11, by faith
OT peoples were made righteous by God the same way as NT peoples.
By faith alone. Read all of Hebrews 11.
By faith alone. Read all of Hebrews 11.
Keith Mullins
Member
The answer is in the NT. Others have already pointed to Heb 11. It's also in Romans 4 and other places I can't think of right now.
KenH
Well-Known Member
The same way that God's elect are saved today, except they looked forward to the finished work of Christ when he came in the flesh, and we look back to the finished work of Christ when he came in the flesh. Their sins were imputed to Christ and Christ's perfect righteousness imputed to them.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Our man Gill; Chapter 1 - Of the Manifestation and Administration of the Covenant of Grace. - Puritan-Writers
"the covenant of grace... was a compact in eternity, between the three divine persons, Father, Son, and Spirit; in which each person agreed to take his part in the economy of man's salvation:
and now I shall consider the administration of that covenant in the various periods of time, from the beginning of the world to the end of it.
The covenant of grace is but one and the same in all ages, of which Christ is the substance; being given for "a covenant of the people", of all the people of God, both Jews and Gentiles, who is "the same" in the "yesterday" of the Old Testament, and in the "today" of the New Testament, and "for ever";
he is "the way, the truth, and the life", the only true way to eternal life; and there never was any other way made known to men since the fall of Adam; no other name under heaven has been given, or will be given, by which men can be saved.
The patriarchs before the flood and after, before the law of Moses and under it, before the coming of Christ, and all the saints since, are saved in one and the same way, even "by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ"; and that is the grace of the covenant, exhibited at different times, and in divers manners.
For though the covenant is but one, there are different administrations of it; particularly two, one before the coming of Christ, and the other after it; which lay the foundation for the distinction of the "first" and "second", the "old" and the "new" covenant, observed by the author of the epistle to the Hebrews (Hebrews 8:7, 8, 13; 9:1, 15; 12:24),
for by the first and old covenant, is not meant the covenant of works made with Adam, which had been broke and abrogated long ago; since the apostle is speaking of a covenant waxen old, and ready to vanish away in his time: nor was the covenant of works the first and most ancient covenant;
the covenant of grace, as an eternal compact, was before that;
but by it is meant the first and most ancient administration of the covenant of grace which reached from the fall of Adam, when the covenant of works was broke, unto the coming of Christ, when it was superseded and vacated by another administration of the same covenant, called therefore the "second" and "new" covenant."
"1e. In the blessings of it; they are the same under both administrations.
Salvation and redemption by Christ is the great blessing held forth and enjoyed under the one as under the other (2 Samuel 23:5; Heb 9:15).
Justification by the righteousness of Christ, which the Old Testament church had knowledge of, and faith in, as well as the new (Isaiah 45:24, 25; Romans 3:21-23).
Forgiveness of sin through faith in Christ, all the prophets bore witness to; and the saints of old, as now, had as comfortable an application of it (Psalm 32:1, 5; Isaiah 43:25; Micah 7:18; Acts 10:43).
Regeneration, spiritual circumcision, and sanctification, were what men were made partakers of under the first, as under the second administration of the covenant (Deuteronomy 30:6; Philippians 3:3).
Eternal life was made known in the writings of the Old Testament, as well as in those of the New; and was believed, looked for, and expected by the saints of the former, as of the latter dispensation (John 5:39; Hebrews 11:10, 16; Job 19:26, 27).
In a word, they and we eat the same spiritual meat, and drink the same spiritual drink, for they drank of that Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ (1 Corinthians 10:3, 4).
"the covenant of grace... was a compact in eternity, between the three divine persons, Father, Son, and Spirit; in which each person agreed to take his part in the economy of man's salvation:
and now I shall consider the administration of that covenant in the various periods of time, from the beginning of the world to the end of it.
The covenant of grace is but one and the same in all ages, of which Christ is the substance; being given for "a covenant of the people", of all the people of God, both Jews and Gentiles, who is "the same" in the "yesterday" of the Old Testament, and in the "today" of the New Testament, and "for ever";
he is "the way, the truth, and the life", the only true way to eternal life; and there never was any other way made known to men since the fall of Adam; no other name under heaven has been given, or will be given, by which men can be saved.
The patriarchs before the flood and after, before the law of Moses and under it, before the coming of Christ, and all the saints since, are saved in one and the same way, even "by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ"; and that is the grace of the covenant, exhibited at different times, and in divers manners.
For though the covenant is but one, there are different administrations of it; particularly two, one before the coming of Christ, and the other after it; which lay the foundation for the distinction of the "first" and "second", the "old" and the "new" covenant, observed by the author of the epistle to the Hebrews (Hebrews 8:7, 8, 13; 9:1, 15; 12:24),
for by the first and old covenant, is not meant the covenant of works made with Adam, which had been broke and abrogated long ago; since the apostle is speaking of a covenant waxen old, and ready to vanish away in his time: nor was the covenant of works the first and most ancient covenant;
the covenant of grace, as an eternal compact, was before that;
but by it is meant the first and most ancient administration of the covenant of grace which reached from the fall of Adam, when the covenant of works was broke, unto the coming of Christ, when it was superseded and vacated by another administration of the same covenant, called therefore the "second" and "new" covenant."
"1e. In the blessings of it; they are the same under both administrations.
Salvation and redemption by Christ is the great blessing held forth and enjoyed under the one as under the other (2 Samuel 23:5; Heb 9:15).
Justification by the righteousness of Christ, which the Old Testament church had knowledge of, and faith in, as well as the new (Isaiah 45:24, 25; Romans 3:21-23).
Forgiveness of sin through faith in Christ, all the prophets bore witness to; and the saints of old, as now, had as comfortable an application of it (Psalm 32:1, 5; Isaiah 43:25; Micah 7:18; Acts 10:43).
Regeneration, spiritual circumcision, and sanctification, were what men were made partakers of under the first, as under the second administration of the covenant (Deuteronomy 30:6; Philippians 3:3).
Eternal life was made known in the writings of the Old Testament, as well as in those of the New; and was believed, looked for, and expected by the saints of the former, as of the latter dispensation (John 5:39; Hebrews 11:10, 16; Job 19:26, 27).
In a word, they and we eat the same spiritual meat, and drink the same spiritual drink, for they drank of that Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ (1 Corinthians 10:3, 4).
Bottom line to the Gospel message equates to
God saying “I will save you, Trust Me”
to add anything to that is to blaspheme God
it really is that simple
God saying “I will save you, Trust Me”
to add anything to that is to blaspheme God
it really is that simple
Hayyyyy-mennnn!!!!
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
First: The Law and Word preached/given; for conviction of sin and the Gospel of Jesus.
The word of the LORD came to the people of the Bible in many different ways. It might come by a personal appearance of God, by an audible voice, by visions or dreams, by the ministry of angels, by the working of the Spirit of God upon the mind, by the making alive of a passage of Scripture to the heart, or by the ministry of a prophet or preacher. Here, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision.
Second: We know in context of Romans 4 that Abraham had been told about his sin for conviction of his Depravity before God because it says, "the ungodly" is who God saves;
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Genesis 15:1; After these events, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision:
“Do not be afraid, Abram.
I am your shield,
your very great reward.”
Third: With conviction from the Law we have the Gospel, in the Promise of Job's Redeemer and the Promised Messiah, through the seed of Abraham.
4 Then the word of the LORD came to Abram, saying, “This one will not be your heir, but one who comes from your own body will be your heir.”
5 And the LORD took him outside and said, “Now look to the heavens and count the stars, if you are able.” Then He told him, “So shall your offspring be.”
This is the Gospel preached, as was that he had heard before.
God’s promise to him (descendants leading to the Messiah.
Forth: by Grace, Abraham was given the New Birth and Justification, as we saw before, where God justifies the ungodly.
Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
So, he that who shows evidence of their salvation because they have not worked at a debt, but received faith from the Author of faith, we know it was by grace.
Fifth: having been Born Again by the Holy Spirit by the gift of faith, Abraham had the Spiritual enablement to believe;
Gill: "And he believed in the Lord,.... The Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan are, "in the Word of the Lord;'' in the essential Word of the Lord, in Christ the Lord his righteousness; he believed in the promise of God, that he should have a seed, and a very numerous one; he believed that the Messiah would spring from his seed; he believed in him as his Saviour and Redeemer; he believed in him for righteousness, and he believed in his righteousness as justifying him before God:
"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."
And he believed in the LORD: When Abraham is given trust in God and believes, specifically in the Gospel, God’s promise to him (descendants leading to the Messiah).
Sixth: Repentance and Faith, together. When the New Birth is given by grace to believe the Gospel, Repentance to have turned from the conviction of sin and Faith to have believed in the Gospel of the promised Messiah are also manifest.
Seventh: Righteousness. After the Pardon of sin and being justified, Abraham had also been imputed and given the Righteousness of the One in Whom He had been given faith to believe in.
Abraham's righteousness that had been Christ's was now his.
i. There are essentially two types of righteousness: righteousness we accomplish by our own efforts, and righteousness accounted to us by the work of God when He saves our soul.
ii. Since none of us can be good enough to accomplish perfect righteousness, we must have God’s righteousness accounted to us by doing just what Abram did: he believed in the LORD. Abraham was saved and given belief in The Living Word of God.
iii. God’s accounting is not pretending. God does not account to us a pretended righteousness, or superficial fleshly non-Spiritual "faith", or "belief" by the consent of the mental faculties only, but a real Supernatural Spiritually wrought faith and belief and a Perfect Imputed Righteousness from and in Jesus Christ (Romans 4:1-3).
Gill: "and he counted it to him for righteousness; not the act of his faith, but the object of it; (Jesus Christ) and not the promise he believed, but what was promised, and his faith received, even Christ and his righteousness this was imputed to him without works, and while he was an uncircumcised person, for the proof of which the apostle produces this passage, Romans 4:3;
wherefore this is not to be understood of any action of his being esteemed and accounted a righteous one, and he pronounced and acknowledged a righteous person on account of it;
for Abram was not justified before God by his own works, but by the righteousness of faith, as all that believe are, that is, by the righteousness of Christ revealed to faith, and received by it:
what is imputed is without a man, and the imputation of it depends upon the will of another; such the righteousness of Christ without works imputed by God the Father.
"This is the first time we read of believing, and as early do we hear of imputed righteousness."
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Awesome post. I had to borrow all three of your verses!
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
That is not saying much for
Yeshua Hamashiach:
"Jesus the Messiah"
Yahweh Tsidkenu:
"the Lord Our Righteousness"!
I disagree, Infinitely.
1.) I thought people knew God's Message of Salvation of how to be saved in the Gospel!
I Corinthians 15:1;
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 "By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received,
how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
2.) Please tell me you haven't come up with another.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
3.) To be a servant of Christ and understand and know and preach what the Gospel is comes by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
I wouldn't say a word about the simple thing you wrote if it wasn't as serious as the difference between Heaven and Hell.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Of all the posts I have made on here, you really think that I deny that?
really
Please show me where I have ever denied I Cor 15:1-8
BTW, it’s one of the scriptures that we quote congregationally 2 times per month
BTW, just to mean clear- the preaching of the Gospel (think I Cor 15:1-8) is the manner in which the HS permeates our hearts and converts us to Christ
And again, the bottom line of the Gospel is the call of God for us to trust Him and He will save us
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Too much editing out of Jesus it looked like to me, as if adding His Work in Accomplishing the Lord's Eternal Plan of Salvation by His death, burial, and resurrection, would be adding something and blasphemous.
For God's message of Salvation to be "Trust Me" could have saved them a lot of trouble and ink, if that was true.
Telling the lost to "just trust God" is sorely lacking for God to use it and have them repent, because they see it was their sins against God that nailed His Son to the cross, and to subsequently Trust His Son to have buried their sins away, and Took up His Life again in proof that God had accepted Jesus'payment for their sins.
How is the sinner's inherited sin and sins of practice and habit dealt with by "Trust Me."?
Not nessisarily is belief, but you still go back to you own invention of a bottom line of "trust Him and He will save you" that I don't get.
Yes, and it is OK to spell out Holy Spirit, according me.
Can we add a little to that, now, and say. "trust His Son", with an explanation of what His Son did to Accomplish Salvation?
it was never meant to be evangelistic
it’s the bottom line
Kiss the son, lest He be angry
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
He/she would be saved, to the for to grace through, the faith.
When the faith, did come. See Gal 3:23-25 YLT And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by [out of] faith we may be declared righteous, and the faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we,
The end of the whole matter let us hear: -- 'Fear God, and keep His commands, for this is the whole of man. Ecc 12:13
IMHO
It's all He's ever wanted us to do, trust Him.
5 Trust in Jehovah with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding:
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, And he will direct thy paths. Prov 3