1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Yes, atheists can have objective morality

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Arthur King, Aug 5, 2023.

Tags:
?

Can atheists have objective moral values?

  1. Yes

  2. No

Results are only viewable after voting.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 5 of 7
  1. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    61
    Faith:
    Baptist
    They ought to behave in such a way that produces life and happiness. "Good" means that which is beneficial to a purpose. Purposes could be grounded in the desires of God, but purposes are also grounded in the bedrock desires of a universal human nature. So if a universal human nature seeks purposes such as life and happiness, these are grounds for objective moral values. It is objectively wrong to do actions that are destructive towards human life and happiness for all. It is a violation of human nature.
     
    #81 Arthur King, Aug 9, 2023
  2. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2023
    Messages:
    1,079
    Likes Received:
    100
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Would you consider the one child policy of China to be good since it was beneficial to a purpose of population control? Or was it bad because it resulted in many, many, abortions? Yet, the population was held in check.
    Can you not see how your definition and position is subjective, relativistic morality?
     
    #82 taisto, Aug 9, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    61
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are confusing natural law morality (which I am defending) with utilitarianism.

    natural law says abortion is an intrinsically evil act, as it is the destruction of an innocent human life. It is a direct and severe violation of the good of life and happiness for all human beings, as it directly destroys a human being.

    China’s one child policy was a moral atrocity under natural law.
     
    #83 Arthur King, Aug 10, 2023
  4. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2023
    Messages:
    1,079
    Likes Received:
    100
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Where is the natural law stated that abortion is an intrinsically evil act? Many, many, cultures invited child sacrifice as the norm, not evil.
    It seems to me that you are making up the rules as you type.
     
    #84 taisto, Aug 10, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,157
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not atheists.
     
    #85 kyredneck, Aug 10, 2023
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,466
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Insane reasoning.
     
    #86 37818, Aug 10, 2023
  7. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    61
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your question “where is the law stated” presupposes a morally subjective framework, do you see that? An objective framework asks “what is?” Not “who said so?” If you are asking “who said so?” then you are assuming that morality comes from a person or authority - which is subjective.

    The natural law is not “stated.” It is what it is. Law means consistency of behavior. The laws of physics are what they are. What we “state” in physical sciences are ways of communicating what the laws in fact are.

    Life and happiness for human beings are objective things. It is objectively true that human nature seeks them as bedrock purposes. If this is the case then it is objectively a violation of such purposes to murder.
     
    #87 Arthur King, Aug 10, 2023
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,466
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The fact of the very occurence of life is a matter of natural law.
     
    #88 37818, Aug 10, 2023
  9. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    61
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lots of atheists support abortion. Abortion is child sacrifice.

    But there are lots of pro-life atheists, too.
     
    #89 Arthur King, Aug 10, 2023
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,157
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So, atheists who abort are actually 'sacrificing' to a higher entity? Sort of an oxymoron, you think?
     
    #90 kyredneck, Aug 10, 2023
    • Like Like x 1
  11. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Faith:
    Baptist
    China's one child policy ... atheists, too.
     
    #91 atpollard, Aug 10, 2023
  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Aggression and competition for resources for human beings are objective things. It is objectively true that human nature seeks them as bedrock purposes. If this is the case then it is objectively an extension of such purposes to murder.
     
    #92 atpollard, Aug 10, 2023
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,157
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Oxymoron alert. Which higher entity were these atheists 'sacrificing' their children to?
     
    #93 kyredneck, Aug 10, 2023
  14. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The STATE ... the PEOPLE (collectively) ... the "GREATER GOOD". Communism places the STATE as the "god".
    However, strictly speaking, a culture only needs to collectively accept an action for it to be "culturally" 'GOOD'.
    An example would be eating the heart of your fallen enemy to gain his courage. EVIL to us, an act of honor to a cannibal.

    [Isn't CULTURAL ANTHROPOLOGY great stuff?]
     
    #94 atpollard, Aug 10, 2023
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    61
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "It is objectively true that human nature seeks them as bedrock purposes."

    No, that is not true. Aggression and competition for resources to do not lead to the life and holistic long term pleasure for all human beings. Aggression and competition and murder violate those goods.
     
    #95 Arthur King, Aug 10, 2023
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,157
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Objective, or subjective?
     
    #96 kyredneck, Aug 10, 2023
  17. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2020
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    61
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Atheists who abort are sacrificing the child for a higher priority.

    Everyone worships. Worship just means "worth-ship," that is, the ascribing of worth. Everyone has a hierarchy of worth that dictates their actions.

    So yes, when an atheist aborts a child, it is because they worship (ascribe worth to) something more than the life of the child.
     
    #97 Arthur King, Aug 10, 2023
  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ahhh ... a fantasy land. Nature of Eden.

    My mistake. I was thinking of the real nature where people want to survive and need to hunt for food or defend their farm from animals or face droughts and migrations (like the Tribal Migrations across Europe caused by the early Hun successes in Asia.)

    Carry on, I have no idea how your UTOPIA functions.
     
    #98 atpollard, Aug 10, 2023
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,157
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I get that. A higher priority, but NOT to a 'deity'.

    Perhaps you should provide your definition of Atheism..
     
    #99 kyredneck, Aug 10, 2023
    • Like Like x 1
  20. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Faith:
    Baptist
    deleted.
     
    #100 atpollard, Aug 10, 2023
Page 5 of 7
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...