Note Romans 9:16 where salvation does not depend on the one who wills. Clearly the one who wills is seeking God. Then look at Matthew 23:13 and the fallen who were in the process of entering the kingdom, again were clearly seeking God.
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Seeking God?
- Thread starter Van
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
2 Chronicles 15:4
“But in their distress they turned to the LORD God of Israel, and they sought Him, and He let them find Him.
The question that should arise is: How many scriptures must be denied to to support a doctrine before one realizes the doctrine has been nullified by the multiple scriptures?
“But in their distress they turned to the LORD God of Israel, and they sought Him, and He let them find Him.
The question that should arise is: How many scriptures must be denied to to support a doctrine before one realizes the doctrine has been nullified by the multiple scriptures?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
All this proves that the natural man cant please God, cant seek God, cant believe God
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Christ was speaking to His disciples, they were born of God already, He wasnt talking to the spiritually dead
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The question that should arise is: How many scriptures must be denied to to support a doctrine before one realizes the doctrine has been nullified by the multiple scriptures?
If humans cannot seek the true God, why does scripture day they do many times?
No answer will be forthcoming, as those who advocate the fallacy simply ignore verse after verse such as Romans 9:16, which teaches some of the lost do will to be saved some of the time.
If humans cannot seek the true God, why does scripture day they do many times?
No answer will be forthcoming, as those who advocate the fallacy simply ignore verse after verse such as Romans 9:16, which teaches some of the lost do will to be saved some of the time.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You're reading way to much into what I wrote. If that is what you think that is on you not me.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Your twisting of scripture to fit your theology is obvious. How can you read clear English and not understand what it says?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Lol, I understand this Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF you are like a one trick pony. Your tune never changes and you never offer any support of your claims.
CONTEXT is not your friend is it BF.
You have to take all that Paul wrote as factual and everything happens just as he wrote it
Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Rom 3:13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
Rom 3:14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
Rom 3:15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
Rom 3:16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
Rom 3:17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
Rom 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
Now why would we consider what Paul wrote to be hyperbole?
How I see it BF is you need to pull verses out of context to support your theology as the verse in context shows you are in error. But I am sure you will continue to do so as it makes you feel comfortable and secure.
But here is a question for you BF, what do you do with this text
Act 28:23 When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.
Act 28:24 Some were being persuaded by the things spoken, but others would not believe.
Act 28:25 And when they did not agree with one another, they began leaving after Paul had spoken one parting word, "The Holy Spirit rightly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers,
Act 28:26 saying, 'GO TO THIS PEOPLE AND SAY, "YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; AND YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
Act 28:27 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, AND WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES; OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES, AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM."'
Act 28:28 "Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will also listen."
Note what is said here some believed and some did not. But it was not because they could not it was because they would not, it was a choice that is why Paul quoted the OT
"OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART
AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM."
So if they were to turn and believe then they would be healed/saved.
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Man by nature doesnt seek after God, he is dead to God, doesnt understand God, doesnt desire the True God. Rom 3:11ff
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF you are making the error of proof texting. Paul did not write a letter of one liners. You are pulling a few out of context verses from his letter and using them to build a theological view.
Paul has used hyperbole to show the Jews that they were no better than the Gentiles. Although they had the law they did not adhere to the law and it condemns them. Paul is not saying that man is evil through and through, or that they never do any moral good, they can and they do. But in light of God’s holy morally perfect character, which is the ultimate standard against which people’s goodness is measured, people are indeed far from perfect. So we see that the Jews have no ground on which to boast. The law in which they boasted proved to be what condemned them.
Paul continues in his letter to show that God has reached out to humanity despite its imperfect ways. Romans 3:21-26 So while the law condemns both Gentile and Jew, salvation is available to all that will trust in Christ Jesus. As Paul wrote "since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith" Romans 3:30
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Please answer directly, if possible.
When you use “christians” (in quotes) are you questioning those Christian’s profession of faith? Are you saying they aren’t really Christians because they have a different understand of what the context of scripture is?
peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I have answered you. You just do not want to accept what is written.
You're reading way too much into what I wrote. If that is what you think that is on you not me.
Repeating a refuted argument may indicate an inability to study scripture and discern truth. Scripture says in verse after verse the "many" who are lost seek eternal life, but only the "few" of the lost find eternal life.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Im giving you the Truth, man by nature doesnt seek after God, doesnt even desire God, doesnt understand God Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
No BF you are giving me your version of the truth. What you are saying does not comport with the text of the bible. You are overlooking context. That is a sure way to have error.
BF you indicated that you were taking the following verse into consideration, CONTEXT, and then you just ignore them.
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