It is your prerogative to think this way. I have listened to futurism teaching my entire life. Such teachers pick and choose what is literal and what isn't. They make prognosis based upon "understanding the times." Then, when they are inevitably wrong, they recalculate and make a new prognosis, which inevitably is wrong. It's like listening to the false prophets in Israel make up things along the way.
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Study Question: Revelation 12:1-6 - Who is the Woman?
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Does the home give birth to its future occupants? Nope! Thus the New Jerusalem is not the mother of the body of Christ.
Does John 3:8 indicate the body of Christ is born of the Spirit? Yes
Is it sound to take an allegorical detail from one passage and claim the detail means the same thing in another allegory in another passage? Nope, bible study 101
Does Satan persecute those indwelt with the Spirit? Yes
In summary, every verse cited above supports the view that the "woman" of Revelation 12:1-2 is the Holy Spirit personified. Galatians 4:29 says the children of the free woman are according to the Spirit, not that out of context claims matter.
Nothing about this post is true
If you think that, then it is not I who needs to do some learning before posting. Go back and study the history of futurism and see the false prognosticators who have abounded.
In fact, multiple cults have been formed based on their futurism interpretations. The Jehovah's Witness is readily known
So, the Holy Spirit is the female part of the Trinity? Not. The pronouns addressing the Holy Spirit in the Bible are masculine:
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever,
17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you. Jn 14
However, wife of Jehovah, bride of Christ, are indeed feminine.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1
who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten. Jn 1:13 YLT
if ye know that he is righteous, know ye that every one doing the righteousness, of him hath been begotten. 1 Jn 2:29 YLT
9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. 1 Jn 3:9 YLT
7 Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God 1 Jn 4:7 YLT
1 Every one who is believing that Jesus is the Christ, of God he hath been begotten, and every one who is loving Him who did beget, doth love also him who is begotten of Him
4 because every one who is begotten of God doth overcome the world, and this is the victory that did overcome the world -- our faith
18 We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him 1 Jn 5
Born of the Spirit, born from above, born from Jerusalem above, born of God, begotten by God - all synonymous, meaning the same thing.
The Serpent's seed has been persecuting the Woman's seed since the day Cain killed Abel.
@taisto nails it here:
"The Israel of God. The elect lady of 2 John 1. The woman is the children of the Promise from Adam and Eve to the end of the age. From the very beginning Satan has tried to stop the Lamb of God from Redeeming humans and unshackling sinners from the chains in which Satan has bound them. Satan hates the Church because they remind him that he has lost."
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Apparently this poster did not even read where I addressed the gender issue. Go figure...
See post #3, as "gender" does not dictate the gender of the subject.
The New Jerusalem is not the mother of the body of Christ.
Does John 3:8 indicate the body of Christ is born of the Spirit? Yes
Is it sound to take an allegorical detail from one passage and claim the detail means the same thing in another allegory in another passage? Nope, bible study 101
Does Satan persecute those indwelt with the Spirit? Yes
In summary, every verse cited in posts # 75 and 85 supports the view that the "woman" of Revelation 12:1-2 is the Holy Spirit personified. Galatians 4:29 says the children of the free woman are according to the Spirit, not that out of context claims matter.
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@kyredneck is correct and you are incorrect
The woman is the New Jerusalem, the Church, the Bride of Christ, the Israel of God.
From what tradition are you drawing that teaches the woman as the Holy Spirit? Or are you just coming up with that interpretation on your own while no one else holds your view?
Please stop addressing me, and simply declaring your opinion without any specific evidence. An appeal to "tradition" can be an appeal to those who make scripture to no effect.
Colossians 2:8
See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ.
See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ.
The future home, the New Jerusalem, would not be the "mother" or originating agent of the body of Christ.
See post #3, as "gender" does not dictate the gender of the subject.
Does John 3:8 indicate the body of Christ is born of the Spirit? Yes
Is it sound to take an allegorical detail from one passage and claim the detail means the same thing in another allegory in another passage? Nope, bible study 101
Does Satan persecute those indwelt with the Spirit? Yes
In summary, every verse cited in posts # 75 and 85 supports the view that the "woman" of Revelation 12:1-2 is the Holy Spirit personified. Galatians 4:29 says the children of the free woman are according to the Spirit, not that out of context claims matter.
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It's post #5, and you're wrong concerning gender:
8 And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you. Jn 16
However, wife of Jehovah, bride of Christ, are indeed feminine.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Gal 4
5 And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.
17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus: Rev 12
Born of the Spirit, born from above, born from Jerusalem above, born of God, begotten by God - all synonymous, meaning the same thing.
The Serpent's seed has been persecuting the Woman's seed since the day Cain killed Abel.
Again, close, but no cigar.
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Lol, it's known as 'Vanology' here on the BB.
Does this mean that no one before you has ever held the view that the Holy Spirit is the woman?
Sir, you should be able to point to other Christians who had the same view. If you cannot, then your view has to be a red flag to all who hear you and it should be a red flag to yourself. There has been over 2000 years of study on Revelation 12. Surely you can point to someone who held your view. God would not go 2000 plus years before He gave you the only correct view.
Do you have anyone to point to that holds your view?
If not, then Colossians 2:8 is telling me to avoid your position.
No where in scripture is the church referred to as the woman. Calling the church the Bride is not the same as calling the church as a woman. Setting aside that the church will be absent during this literal time, we can see that the nation of Israel has been called the woman in many places throughout scripture. Passages such as Isaiah 47:7-9; 54:5-6; Jeremiah 4:31; Micah 4:9-10; 5:3; Isaiah 66:7-8.
Given that the Ark of the Covenant is seen in 11:19 it is a clear indication that God is now dealing with National Israel. Further, references to the sun, moon, and stars, are used in scripture in reference to Israel.
Given that the Ark of the Covenant is seen in 11:19 it is a clear indication that God is now dealing with National Israel. Further, references to the sun, moon, and stars, are used in scripture in reference to Israel.
Yes, it is, a bride is a woman (or should be).
The Church was indeed on terra firma during the great tribulation of the judgement of the Harlot. The Jerusalem Church, following the Lord's instructions given at the Olivet Discourse, fled Jerusalem and went to the mountains of Perea when the army of Cestius Gallus burned some of the outer city in 66 A.D.
Yes, an adulterous wife who 'played the harlot' many times in the OT.
Yes, one eighth of the entire book of Revelation, some fifty verses, is devoted to the judgement of the Harlot.
6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
7 neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. Ro 9
The church is first expressed as a woman in Genesis 3:15.
I am sorry you are grieved by scripture.Good grief
Ask anyone who has studied Greek.
You ignore the Holy Spirit is addressed in the masculine and neuter.
LOL, do none of these "taint so" posters know gender designation does not indicate actual gender? Give me a break.
From the internet:
Gender
Like many languages of the world, Greek nouns have grammatical gender, with a noun being either masculine, feminine, or neuter. In most cases this is arbitrary; just because the word γραφή, meaning a writing (hopefully you recall this from the previous chapter) is feminine doesn’t imply some female nature to a given piece of writing or the idea of writing itself. Of course, in some cases it does make sense: the word for “girl,” κόρη, is indeed feminine.
Gender
Like many languages of the world, Greek nouns have grammatical gender, with a noun being either masculine, feminine, or neuter. In most cases this is arbitrary; just because the word γραφή, meaning a writing (hopefully you recall this from the previous chapter) is feminine doesn’t imply some female nature to a given piece of writing or the idea of writing itself. Of course, in some cases it does make sense: the word for “girl,” κόρη, is indeed feminine.
I'll stick with how the second Person of the Trinity addresses the third Person of the Trinity - MALE!
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever,
17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you. Jn 14
8 And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you. Jn 16