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Featured How the Apostles preached the Cross

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Arthur King, Sep 2, 2023.

  1. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    We are not going to preach the cross better than the Apostles did. But if we use the template for preaching that they used, we find a very clear pattern that is remarkably different than the dominant way the cross is preached today.

    How did the Apostles preach the cross? Let’s look at two summaries from prominent scholars on the topic, and then we will take a look at the passages themselves from Acts. John Stott correctly summarizes the Apostolic witness as the following:


    “To Jews Paul spoke of the God of the covenant, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but to Gentiles of the God of creation, who made the heavens the earth and the sea and everything in them. Nevertheless, there was a core to the proclamation of both apostles, which might be reconstructed as follows:

    Jesus was a man who was accredited by God through miracles and anointed by the Spirit to do good and to heal. Despite this, he was crucified through the agency of wicked men, though also by God’s purpose according to the Scriptures that the Messiah must suffer. Then God reversed the human verdict on Jesus by raising him from the dead, also according to the Scriptures, and as attested by the apostolic eyewitnesses. Next God exalted him to the place of supreme honor as Lord and Savior. He now possesses full authority both to save those who repent, believe and are baptized in his name, bestowing on them the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Spirit, and to judge those who reject him.

    At its simplest their message was ‘you killed him, God raised him, and we are witnesses.’ In other words, the resurrection was the divine reversal of the human verdict.



    It is interesting that John Stott, a fierce penal substitution defender, when forced to stick to a close summary of the Apostolic preaching, gives a meaning of the cross profoundly different than penalty substitution. Thomas McCall, professor at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, states,


    “The apostolic proclamation of the gospel places the fault and blame on the sinners who are responsible for the death of Jesus. You were ignorant (Acts 13:27). You conspired against him.” You betrayed him. You resisted the word of God. You crucified him; you hung him on the tree. You killed Jesus. The omniscient God, however, planned for your redemption, and he executed that plan of redemption even as you were executing his own precious Son. You killed him, but God raised him from the dead. The pattern of gospel proclamation is straightforward and unmistakably clear:

    You killed him.
    But God raised him.
    We are witnesses.
    Repent and believe for the forgiveness of sins (Forsaken. P.122).”



    The authors of Scripture outline God’s actions in direct and sharp contrast to the actions of sinful people - you killed him, but God raised him from the dead. “You killed him, but God raised him for your salvation.”

    Let’s see for ourselves how this plays out in the following nine passages from Acts:

    Acts 2:23, Peter says, “this Man (Jesus), delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of lawless men and put Him to death, but God raised Him up again, putting an end to the birth pains of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.”

    The logic is: you lawless men nailed Jesus to a cross, but God raised him from the dead. The fact that Jesus was delivered over by the predetermined plan of God is not sufficient reason to think, “God was satisfying wrath on Jesus.” Suffering that happens according to the plan and foreknowledge of God need not be the penal suffering of the guilty.

    2:36, Peter says again, “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Messiah—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

    Again: You (sinners) crucified Jesus, but God raised him from the dead and made him Lord and Messiah.

    3:14-15, Peter says, “But you disowned the Holy And Righteous One and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, but put to death the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are all witnesses.”

    Again: you (sinners) disowned and put to death the Holy and Righteous Prince of Life, but God raised him from the dead.

    4:10, Peter says, “let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health.”

    Again: You sinners crucified Jesus, but God raised him from the dead.

    4:26, Peter and John say, “’The Kings of the earth took their stand, and the rulers were gathered together Against the Lord and against His Christ (Ps 2:2)’ For truly in this city were gathered together against Your holy Son Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. And now, Lord, take note of their threats. And grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence, while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders to take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.”


    Again: Kings, rulers, Herod, Pilate, Gentiles, and Israelites put the holy Son, Jesus, to death. But God extends His hand to heal sinners through Jesus.

    5:30, Peter and the Apostles say, “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.”

    Again: You sinners hung Jesus on a cross, but God raised him up.

    7:51-53, Stephen says, “Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; you who received the law as ordained by angels, and did not keep it.”

    Again: Betrayers and murderers killed the Righteous One, just as betrayers murdered the prophets before Him. Right after Stephen delivers these words, he sees the risen Christ.

    10:39, Peter says, “We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. God raised him up on the third day and granted that He become visible.”

    Again: Sinners crucified Jesus, but God raised him from the dead.

    13:28, Paul says, “And though [those in Jerusalem] found no ground for putting Him to death, they asked Pilate that He be destroyed . . . But God raised Him from the dead.”

    Again: Sinners put Jesus to death, though they had no grounds for putting him to death, but God raised Him from the dead.

    On penalty substitution, humanity’s problem is that they deserve punishment, and the positive reversal of fortune is that Jesus intercedes to die in our place to exhaust this punishment. In Acts however, the problem is that humans are destroying themselves in sin and have even destroyed God’s incarnate Son, but the positive reversal of fortune is that God raises His Son from the dead as the catalyst for restoring the world and granting forgiveness of sin. The transition in the sequence of logic, the “but God,” is not “but God punished his own Son to satisfy His wrath so He would not have to satisfy it on us.” The transition is, “but God raised Jesus from the death which we inflicted upon him, and through this resurrection He grants us forgiveness of sins if we confess and repent.” The reversal of fortune that gives us hope for salvation is the resurrection. The fact that Jesus died is only good news because He rose from the dead.
     
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  3. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    You are saying that Jesus received the wages of sin (death) completely before his death?
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Well, death of the soul and death of the body are two different deaths. See Jesus teaching on this very issue, Matthew 10:28, ". . . And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: . . ." There are, at least, three views on this issue too.
     
  5. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Interesting? If you say so. Surprising? It shouldn’t be at all. The one understanding does not exclude the other.
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Exactly.

    It's so redundant, how could any serious student miss it?
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was not killed by a human verdict. He was put to death by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God. Full Stop
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ???

    22 Pilate saith unto them, What then shall I do unto Jesus who is called Christ? They all say, Let him be crucified.
    23 And he said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out exceedingly, saying, Let him be crucified.
    24 So when Pilate saw that he prevailed nothing, but rather that a tumult was arising, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this righteous man; see ye to it.
    25 And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. Mt 27
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here, folks, the unstudied and unbiblical view is restated, while ignoring Jesus was put to death according to the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God. Thus the humans involved were acting in accordance with God's plan.
     
  10. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    God ordains events in which injustices and sins take place, without Himself being unjust or the author of sin.

    That God foreknew and predestined an event is not evidence that humans were not acting with agency, choice, sin, and injustice.

    Your argument that "God foreknew and predestined the crucifixion, therefore humans did not execute a verdict, perform an injustice, act with agency, sin against Christ, or choose to do evil" is just not a valid argument biblically.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again, a bogus and false claim without a quote. Did I say humans did not execute a verdict? Nope
    Did I say humans did not perform an injustice? Nope
    Did I say humans acted according to God's predetermined plan. You bet!
    Did I say the involved humans were not sinners? Nope
    Did I say those involved did not choose to sin? Nope

    So why does this naysayer not address my actual view? Because it is biblical.
    Here, folks, the unstudied and unbiblical view is restated, while ignoring Jesus was put to death according to the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God. Thus the humans involved were acting in accordance with God's plan.
     
  12. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    Is this guy named "Van" you" Or a different Van?

    "Jesus was not killed by a human verdict. He was put to death by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God. Full Stop."
     
  13. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    One one view (my view), Jesus' death is unjust. Justice is satisfied in the resurrection as the reversal and restitution of his unjust death.

    On the other view (penal substitution), Jesus' death is just/deserved. On the cross where Jesus died, the wrath of God was satisfied.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is the false claim, a material false statement byh Arthur King.
    His is my actual statement: "Jesus was not killed by a human verdict."
    And here is my claim, "Did I say humans did not execute a verdict? Nope

    Pay no attention to this posters efforts to change the subject to what I said or didn't say.

    Here is the actual topic of discussion, "Jesus was not killed by a human verdict. He was put to death by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God. Full Stop."

    Who killed Jesus as a sacrifice for sin? God did.

    Pay no attention to the false teachers who claim otherwise.
     
  15. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    That eisegesis of the “other view” is problematic in the extreme. I guess I missed the part where someone said Jesus deserved to die instead of those who committed the sins he took away.

    It certainly is not indicated in the sentence you semi-quoted without quotation marks. The song it seems to try to quote certainly doesn’t say it either. Far from it.

    In Christ alone my hope is found
    He is my light, my strength, my song
    This cornerstone, this solid ground
    Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
    What heights of love, what depths of peace
    When fears are stilled, when strivings cease
    My comforter, my all in all
    Here, in the love of Christ, I stand

    In Christ alone, who took on flesh
    Fullness of God in helpless babe
    This gift of love and righteousness
    Scorned by the ones He came to save
    'Til on that cross, as Jesus died
    The wrath of God was satisfied
    For every sin, on Him, was laid
    Here, in the death of Christ, I live

    There in the ground, His body lay
    Light of the world, by darkness, slain
    Then bursting forth in glorious day
    Up from the grave, He rose again
    And as He stands in victory
    Sin's curse has lost its grip on me
    For I am His and He is mine
    Bought with the precious blood of Christ

    No guilt in life, no fear in death
    This is the power of Christ in me
    From life's first cry to final breath
    Jesus commands my destiny
    No power of Hell, no scheme of man
    Can ever pluck me from His hand
    'Til He returns or calls me home
    Here, in the power of Christ, I'll stand

    No power of Hell, no scheme of man
    Can ever pluck me from His hand
    'Til He returns or calls me home
    Here, in the power of Christ, I'll stand​
     
  16. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    I've already mentioned that that is extreme eisegesis of the "other view." Words other than extreme would apply as well, e.g., ridiculous, outrageous, nonsensical. Those are some of the nicer, kinder ones. The point is that the point cannot be made strongly enough.

    To get a feel for how eisegetic it is, try having the following applied to your own view: "The one view (yours) makes Jesus' death unnecessary. They could have simply accepted Jesus as Messiah, and all would have been fulfilled."
     
  17. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    Again, penal substitution is insistent that Jesus' death is just/deserved. Read it from prominent penal substitution scholars themselves:

    Penal substitution advocate Donald Macleod says “Christ’s death, despite its dark, horrific backdrop, was just, because it was the death of the voluntary, divine sin-bearer, whose sacrifice satisfied God that it was right for him to forgive the sins of the world" He says again that at the cross the “penalty was right” and that “it could only be right if it was deserved.”

    The writers of Pierced for our Transgressions state that, “God acted justly in punishing him, for he saw him as guilty by virtue of his union with those whose sins he bore” and “Jesus is justly condemned by God for sins imputed to him.”

    As popular theologian RC Sproul says:

    My sin was placed upon him. And the one who was pure was pure no more. And God cursed him. It was as if there was a cry from heaven — excuse my language, but I can be no more accurate than to say — It was as if Jesus heard the words, ”God damn you.” Because that’s what it meant to be cursed. To be damned. To be under the anathema of the Father.


    See this quotation from pastor David Platt:

    The beauty of the cross is that when Jesus went to Calvary, He did not just pay the price for our lusting, our lying, our cheating, or whatever sin that we do—He stood in our place. He took the holy hatred, holy judgment, and holy wrath of God that was not just due our sin but due us. Jesus stood in our place and He took it upon Himself. So let us be very careful not to lean on comfortable clichés that sound good to us and rob the cross of its power.

    Christian therapist Dan Allender and theologian Tremper Longman say the following:

    God chose to violate His Son in our place. The Son stared into the mocking eyes of God; He heard the laughter of the Father’s derision and felt Him depart in disgust. . . . In a mysterious instant, the Father who loved the Son from all eternity turned from Him in hatred. The Son became odious to the Father.

    Such formulations have also existed in Catholic theology and preaching. Bishop Bossuet (1627-1704) says the following:

    The man, Jesus Christ, has been thrown under the multiple and redoubled blows of divine vengeance . . . As it vented itself, so his [God’s] anger diminished; he struck his innocent Son as he wrestled with the wrath of God . . . When an avenging God waged war upon his Son, the mystery of our peace was accomplished.

    And on my view, Jesus' death and resurrection are absolutely necessary:

    5 Biblical Corrections to Penal Substitution
     
  18. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    If they don't mean by it that sin leads to death, deserves death, then they would be wrong. The position Jesus assumed by taking on our sin, or as Paul put it becoming sin, changes everything, changed everything. And so we are saved.

    If they mean that Jesus was literally, actionably guilty of the sin itself, rather than substitutionally, then they would be wrong. But nowhere do they seem to mean such a thing. I’ve listened to various presentations of Jesus’ substitutionary death most of my life and do not recall ever hearing such an interpretation. It just sounds like a ridiculous, wild-eyed accusation. It would be laughable, if merely ignorant and not so perverse.
     
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  19. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Of course Jesus’ death was necessary for our salvation. It is fundamental to the gospel. So is his resurrection. I never said you disagreed with this. The point is that interpreting your view to mean it is not necessary is no more eisegetical of the “one view,” your view, than your misinterpretation of the “other view.”

    If someone just kept on accusing you of holding a view that insists Jesus’ death was unnecessary, regardless of your denials and explanations, somehow I think you wouldn’t care too much for their assessment, or for that matter, their ability to assess. That was the point of the comment, not that your view means that. In other words, it was an analogy to what your posts amount to. They seem unable to grasp the blatant nuance of the “other view.”
     
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    So. Jesus was God from Eternity Past and not just a man, for starters.

    The verdict of guilt was passed onto Jesus for my sins.

    Jesus' resurrection had no more to do with a human verdict than the idea of God "reversing" it.


    Seems to me like the Savior possessed full authority to save, as a Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    And He has never waited for "those who repent, believe and are baptized in his name". That's a trilima of false gospels.


    "the resurrection was the divine reversal of the human verdict" sounds like a cute philosophy, but so does, "there is no absolute truth, except that there is no absolute truth".

    Not a word of truth to ether of them.

    ‘you killed him, God raised him, and we are witnesses.’ In other words, the resurrection was the divine reversal of the human verdict" might be the stupidest
    equation for a proposal since "human beings came from monkeys." Yes, stupidest.

    Or how about, "you can change a girl into a boy"? That's just stupid, too.

    Where did John Stott learn this mediocrity triviality? The stupid Public School System?

    "To whom was the sacrifice offered? It was offered to God; as it is often said to be (Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 9:14), to God, against whom sin is committed;

    "and therefore to him was the sacrifice for it offered; whose justice must be satisfied; without which, God will by no means clear the guilty:

    "and therefore Christ was set forth and appointed to be the propitiation for sin, to declare the righteousness of God, to show forth his justice, the strictness of it, and give it satisfaction (Romans 3:25, 26), and being satisfied, the sacrifice of Christ became acceptable, and of a sweet smelling savour to God (Ephesians 5:2).

    "For whom was the sacrifice offered? Not for himself; he needed none, as did the priests under the law; he was cut off, but not for himself, being without sin:

    "nor for angels; the elect angels needing no sacrifice, having not sinned; and evil angels were not spared, and so their nature was not taken by him, nor a sacrifice offered for them:

    "but for elect men..., his sheep, his children; for whom he laid down his life, and gave himself an offering to God.

    "His sacrifice was a vicarious one; as were those under the law, which were typical of his; Christ our Passover, was sacrificed for us, in our room and stead; Christ suffered, the just for the unjust, in the room and stead of them; he died for the ungodly, or they must have died; and became the ransom price for them."

    What does the passage from Stott have to do with a summary of the Apostolic preaching? He said a few words, like preachers do. Just a few words of his to summarize how much preaching? Like what scripture? Come on.

    And gravely serious.
     
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