You seem to think that God being sovereign requires that He control all things that happen down to the molecule moving.
All I wrote was:
Doesn't your last sentence simply state that God determines the results of a humans choice so that the choice results exactly as God wills?
How else could God be Sovereign?"
You tell me that I must believe that God controls every molecule of His creation.
Let me ask this: Is God aware of every molecule, every aspect of His creation and what is going on?
If He isn't aware and paying attention to it, how would He be Sovereign over it?
That is divine determinism AKA Calvinism. So if God controls all that happens as per Calvinism then you have indeed made Him the author of all sin and evil. That is the logical outcome of your philosophy.
First, not once have I ever mentioned Calvinism. You, honestly, go to Calvin whenever you are questioned and you hammer an imaginary argument. Go back and look at who is talking about Calvinism in our conversation.
Did God move the heart of Nebuchadnezzar to attack Judah as God tells Habakkuk in Habbakuk 1? Is God, therefore, by your assertion, the author of sin in determining that the Babylonians would purge Judah? Is every prophetic fulfillment of judgment in the Bible a visible point of contention with you whereby you state that God is the author of sin?
I do not follow you logic that God, directing the affairs of history, makes God the author of sin.
God has a plan but that does not require that He control all that happens that is just a Calvinist idea. Using what man freely does is not God causing man to do something.
What does man do, freely, that God does not give him the capacity to do? When you breathe, is that you freely doing so, or is that God's will being enacted by willfully causing you to breathe? In Job 14:5, the Bible says that God determines exactly how long you will live. He created you and sustains you. You are a sinner. Does that make God the author of sin, since you are here by God's creative decree?
If God wills/decrees something then it is not man doing something by his free will is it?
See my comments above. God decreed you into existence. It must not have been your free will that caused you to live, according to your own declaration.
You asked "How else could God be Sovereign?" God is sovereign because He is God.
Do you see the circular argument here? You have done nothing here to define Sovereignty. You gave us nothing at all in these two sentences.
You seem to be under the impression that God has to determine everything that happens or else He is not sovereign. What do you base that idea on, the WCF or LBCF?
I have no idea what WCF or LBCF is referring to so I guess that cannot be what I base my faith upon. Let's go with something much more important. Let's go with the B-I-B-L-E.
God gives us prophecy after prophecy in the Bible. Does that make God dependent upon free will for those prophecies to come true?
He does not have to control all that happens in order to be sovereign, Man having a free will does not lessen God's sovereignty, how could it?
When Jonah exerted his free will to flee to Tarshish, was God supposed to stay silent and let Jonah go? When Saul/Paul exerted his free will to go to Damascus and persecute Christians, was God supposed to stay silent and let Saul/Paul go his way?
If God is not King over all His creation that necessitates that not all of creation is under His rule and authority. Those areas that are free of God's rule would not be under God's sovereign rule.
Calvinist have imported the idea that God has to control all things if He is going to be sovereign.
Why do you single out "Calvinists?" Since you make this declaration, please provide documentation of John Calvin making this statement or one of his disciples making this statement. You seem to think you know the teachings of Calvin extremely well so this should not be a problem for you.
Or, are you just falling on your imagination and prejudice?
But then you balk at the logical conclusion of your assertion when you are told that your idea would make God the cause of all sin and evil. Calvinists want to have their cake and eat it to.
Where am I balking?
I am asking you to show the logic of your declaration.
You are saying that God is the cause of all sins and all evil, if God determines your path and the path of all humanity.
I have asked if all prophecy from God is sinful and evil since God has predetermined that it happen?
I do have a good grasp of theology but you seem to think that one has to hold to Calvinism.
So far, you haven't shown a good grasp of theology in your comments. So far you have made very general accusations and you have made wild swings at imaginary phantoms of your own design. That's not theology. That's your own imagination.
But the bible is the standard not your man-made theology.
The Bible is the standard.
What "man-made" theology have I presented? You are the one who keeps veering away from the Bible instead of holding to what it says. Would you consider your theology to be "man-made?"
But you are right in one respect, I am prejudiced against any false theology that wants to tear down the character of God.
How would you discern false theology from true theology? You have told us that if God doesn't leave you alone to do whatever you want to do, then God is the author of the evil and sin you do.
Can you see how that declaration might tear at the character of God?
The bible tells us we are saved by grace through faith in the risen Son.
Indeed, God saves us by grace alone.
The faith he gives us is the means through which we believe He has truly saved us.
That is what the Bible says.
Calvinism says one is saved by election before the foundation of the world and faith has nothing to do with it as you have to be given faith after you are saved.
I don't know what Calvin said on the matter. Can you quote him please?
The Bible says we were adopted before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1). However the Bible seems to present salvation as being progressive and continuing until we are in heaven, with that salvation being sustained by the intercessory prayer of Jesus as our High Priest.
If, as the Bible says, we are saved by God's grace, then God saves us and that means we don't.
The Bible says that people don't naturally have faith. In Romans 10:17 we read "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing comes through the word of Christ."
This tells us that if Christ does not speak the words of life into you and you hear his voice, you will not have faith.
That is consistent with Ephesians 2:1-9 which tells us that "even when we were dead, God made us alive, by grace you have been saved."
Biblical salvation and Calvinist salvation are not the same. One is true and one is not.
I only know of salvation by Christ's grace alone. I have never heard of Calvin saving anyone. Where does Calvin say he can save you?
God has a determined plan for salvation, faith in the risen Christ.
Amen.
Those that believe in Him will be saved.
Amen. In Romans 10:17 we read "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing comes through the word of Christ."
He has not determined who will or who will not believe although He does know who will and who will not, He is God after all.
Above, you wrote this:
"
God has a determined plan for salvation, faith in the risen Christ."
You seem to be contradicting yourself.
I have suggested that you check out the foundations of your theology but I would guess that you have not done that.
Your guess is just that. You are flailing away in the dark and you have shown it in your posting.
@taisto if you do not like what I say about your Calvinist theology then show me where I am wrong.
Again, I have never read anything by John Calvin, except a meme quote.
You have not even quoted a meme from John Calvin, let alone his systematic theology. How can I show anything when you have said nothing?
Show me where all those scholars were wrong about Augustine and where he got his ideas of divine determinism, predetermined elect, inability to respond to the gospel message, no freewill.
What scholars? Are you referring to some book you hold by a modern writer who made a claim about Augustine and now you hold that man's writing as equal to the Bible? I don't know what you are referring to here.
I do not dislike Calvinists but I do not like Calvinism because of what it has done to the truth of God's word.
Do you actually know what Calvinism is, or do you have a caricature you have drawn in your mind that you call Calvinism? So far, you have never, to my short time here, ever quoted John Calvin. How am I, or anyone here for that matter, supposed to hold your statements as valid when you don't even quote John Calvin in any post you ever make?
As I stated in another post, I do not think you understand theology even at the most rudimentary level.
You are, however, extremely prejudiced against the caricatures you have created in your mind.
May God be with you.
