Don't be conned by the no God assumption of Atheistic Origin "Science"

[SavedByTheLord]

When determining the age of the earth and the universe or whether man evolved from primitive life forms, Atheistic Origin "science" uses the no God assumption.

The No God Assumption used by Atheistic Origin Science is that there is no God or He has done nothing miraculous in the last 6000 years.

Why would anyone who believes in Jesus Christ be conned into such thinking.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. - Psalm 14:1

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good. - Psalm 53:1

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

It is fair and right to “do science” under the assumption that the universe, and especially our place in it, that is, our solar system and planet, have been established to “behave” according to a prescribed order.

In fact, that is the perspective driven by the revelation of Scripture, beginning with the beginning. This in part birthed modern science, and practically all of the early modern scientists were believers.

Their science did not challenge their faith, but rather strengthened it. “It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; the glory of kings to search it out,” (Proverbs 25:2).

 

[SavedByTheLord]

It is fair and right to “do science” under the assumption that the universe, and especially our place in it, that is, our solar system and planet, have been established to “behave” according to a prescribed order.

In fact, that is the perspective driven by the revelation of Scripture, beginning with the beginning. This in part birthed modern science, and practically all of the early modern scientists were believers.

Their science did not challenge their faith, but rather strengthened it. “It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; the glory of kings to search it out,” (Proverbs 25:2).

That is in general true until the last several decades where modern “science” has become pagan in many of areas. It has also become dangerous.
As to the the no God assumption of atheistic science, it is a lie. As such it should be marked and avoided.
Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles, gave this wisdom from Jesu Christ, that in the last days we are to:

1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. - 2 Tim 4:1-4

it is no coincidence that that chapter is the last chapter that Paul wrote.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

That is in general true until the last several decades where modern “science” has become pagan in many of areas. It has also become dangerous.
As to the the no God assumption of atheistic science, it is a lie. As such it should be marked and avoided.
Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles, gave this wisdom from Jesu Christ, that in the last days we are to:

1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. - 2 Tim 4:1-4

it is no coincidence that that chapter is the last chapter that Paul wrote.

Modern science itself has not become pagan in many areas. However, there are many in scientific fields who embrace an atheistic view and illegitimately use their considerable scientific successes as authority to expound on philosophy and theology. No believer should be fooled by such attempts.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

It is unwise to get caught up in arguments over the age of the earth or the age of the universe, when the real issue with atheistic materialism is their origin.

The view of materialists/naturalists, once championed by Aristotle, is that the universe is eternal, and the earth its stationary, unmovable center. The Catholic Church (but not the Orthodox) foolishly got caught up in their dispute with Gallileo, who also believed in God, and made the philosophic view church doctrine.

We, or at least most of us, now know that it took the wrong side. It was a foolish thing to do, and we would do well to learn a lesson from it by not taking sides on issues the Bible isn’t concerned with, for example, making the explicit age of the earth or the universe a doctrinal matter.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

It is unwise to get caught up in arguments over the age of the earth or the age of the universe, when the real issue with atheistic materialism is their origin.

The view of materialists/naturalists, once championed by Aristotle, is that the universe is eternal, and the earth its stationary, unmovable center. The Catholic Church (but not the Orthodox) foolishly got caught up in their dispute with Gallileo, who also believed in God, and made the philosophic view church doctrine.

We, or at least most of us, now know that it took the wrong side. It was a foolish thing to do, and we would do well to learn a lesson from it by not taking sides on issues the Bible isn’t concerned with, for example, making the explicit age of the earth or the universe a doctrinal matter.

While you make some sense, the wisdom from the word of God must take precedence. That is by Paul was give the wisdom in 2 Tim 4:1-4 that I posted before.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

While believers did not subscribe to the idea of an eternal universe, scientists holding to an atheistic materialist viewpoint naturally did.

Einstein’s relativity and Hubble’s expanding universe knocked them back on their heels. Despite their ever more desperate attempts, they’ve been unable to dig them in again.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

While you make some sense, the wisdom from the word of God must take precedence. That is by Paul was give the wisdom in 2 Tim 4:1-4 that I posted before.

But it gives no one the authority to make the explicit age of the universe or earth into doctrine.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

But it gives no one the authority to make the explicit age of the universe or earth into doctrine.

Of course it does. The age of the earth and the universe is written into the 10 commandments and throughout all scripture.

I have studied scripture for over 20 years and I have never seen God bless any lie nor sanction that a lie be taught to innocent children.

Hagel used the Hagelian dialectic to mislead. First there is the thesis which is the truth, then the antithesis is proposed which is a lie. Then the synthesis of the 2 replaces the thesis to become the new starting point for even more lies by repeating the process. If Hagel, a mere man, could come up with such a deceptive technique, then what does Satan do?

the age of the earth, which was known to be 6000 years, was challenged first. Then cam evolution. Then came abortion. Then came gay marriage. Now there is transgenderism. Most churches have followed this path to the falling away predicted to occur just before the rapture of the church.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Of course it does. The age of the earth and the universe is written into the 10 commandments and throughout all scripture.

I have studied scripture for over 20 years and I have never seen God bless any lie nor sanction that a lie be taught to innocent children.
…

No, one’s interpretation of Scripture does not determine the meaning of Scripture. The previously cited example of Gallileo vs. the Aristotelians is a prime example of that.

No one is claiming God blesses lies or sanctions they be taught to children, or to adults for that matter. And twenty years may not be long enough for some people to study the Bible, because of all the other influences that can sway them.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

…
Hagel used the Hagelian dialectic to mislead. First there is the thesis which is the truth, then the antithesis is proposed which is a lie. Then the synthesis of the 2 replaces the thesis to become the new starting point for even more lies by repeating the process. If Hagel, a mere man, could come up with such a deceptive technique, then what does Satan do?

the age of the earth, which was known to be 6000 years, was challenged first. Then cam evolution. Then came abortion. Then came gay marriage. Now there is transgenderism. Most churches have followed this path to the falling away predicted to occur just before the rapture of the church.

The argument works both ways.

No, there was no biblical doctrine of the explicit age of the earth. But once one was erroneously assumed and imposed, the stage was set. And now Christians foolishly argue over that instead of focusing on the fundamental issues that would expose the real errors of atheism. Scientific atheists have a field day with that.

Christian defense of black slavery preceded acceptance of many of the ills cited. Once that was overthrown, those other items illicitly attached themselves and thus found their way in.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

The argument works both ways.

No, there was no biblical doctrine of the explicit age of the earth. But once one was erroneously assumed and imposed, the stage was set. And now Christians foolishly argue over that instead of focusing on the fundamental issues that would expose the real errors of atheism. Scientific atheists have a field day with that.

Christian defense of black slavery preceded acceptance of many of the ills cited. Once that was overthrown, those other items illicitly attached themselves and thus found their way in.

Of course there is as God put 6 day creation in the very first chapter one the Bible. It is also in the 10 commandments.

as to truth vs lie, here is God’s condemnation of ALL lies.

God that cannot lie - Titus 1:2

Thy word is truth - John 17:17

Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ - John 1:14

Full of grace and truth - John 1:17

Evil men and seducers .... deceiving and being deceived - 2 Tim 3:13

Let God be true and every man a liar - Romans 3:4

No lie is of the truth - 1 John 2:22

All liars ... lake of fire - Rev 21:8

Speaking the truth in love - Eph 4:15

God give them repentance ... acknowledging of the truth ... snare of the devil - 2 Tim 2:25-26

Love one another, for this ... Thou shall not bear false witness - Romans 13:8-9

False accusers - 2 Tim 3:3

All scripture is given by inspiration of God - 2 Tim 3:16

Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost - 2 Pet 1:21

Holy Spirit ... Spirit of truth ... guide you into all truth - John 16:13

The fruit of the Spirit is in all ... truth - Eph 5:9

Thou shall not bear false witness - Mark 10:9

Doctrines of devils ... speaking lies in hypocrisy - 1 Tim 4:1-2

Hast found them liars - Rev 2:2

Under falsehood have they hid themselves - Isa 28:15

No wise enter into it ... Make a lie - Rev 21:27

For without ... Loveth and maketh the a lie - Rev 22:15

Received not the love of the truth - 2 Thess 2:10

God shall send them strong delusion that they believe a lie - 2 Thess 2:11

The true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth - John 4:23

God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth - John 4:24

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it - John 8:44

Have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth - Gal 4:16

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6

Turned their ears from the truth ... turned unto fables 2 Tim 4:4

The Spirit of truth - John 14:17

The Spirit of truth - John 15:26

Rejoiceth in the truth - 1 Cor 13:6

A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies. - Prov 14:5

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. - Eph 4:25

Loins girt about with truth - Eph 6:14

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. - 2 Thess 2:12

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Tim 2:15

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; - Eph 4:14

Prove all things - 1 Thess 5:21

Abstain from all appearance of evil - 1 Thess 5:22

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. - Isaiah 8:20


17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. Rom 16:17-18


2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. - 2 Cor 11:2-4


13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. - 2 Cor 11:13-15


5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Luke 7:5-13

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Of course there is as God put 6 day creation in the very first chapter one the Bible. It is also in the 10 commandments.

as to truth vs lie, here is God’s condemnation of ALL lies.

God that cannot lie - Titus 1:2

Thy word is truth - John 17:17

Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ - John 1:14

Full of grace and truth - John 1:17

Evil men and seducers .... deceiving and being deceived - 2 Tim 3:13

Let God be true and every man a liar - Romans 3:4

No lie is of the truth - 1 John 2:22

All liars ... lake of fire - Rev 21:8

Speaking the truth in love - Eph 4:15

God give them repentance ... acknowledging of the truth ... snare of the devil - 2 Tim 2:25-26

Love one another, for this ... Thou shall not bear false witness - Romans 13:8-9

False accusers - 2 Tim 3:3

All scripture is given by inspiration of God - 2 Tim 3:16

Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost - 2 Pet 1:21

Holy Spirit ... Spirit of truth ... guide you into all truth - John 16:13

The fruit of the Spirit is in all ... truth - Eph 5:9

Thou shall not bear false witness - Mark 10:9

Doctrines of devils ... speaking lies in hypocrisy - 1 Tim 4:1-2

Hast found them liars - Rev 2:2

Under falsehood have they hid themselves - Isa 28:15

No wise enter into it ... Make a lie - Rev 21:27

For without ... Loveth and maketh the a lie - Rev 22:15

Received not the love of the truth - 2 Thess 2:10

God shall send them strong delusion that they believe a lie - 2 Thess 2:11

The true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth - John 4:23

God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth - John 4:24

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it - John 8:44

Have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth - Gal 4:16

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6

Turned their ears from the truth ... turned unto fables 2 Tim 4:4

The Spirit of truth - John 14:17

The Spirit of truth - John 15:26

Rejoiceth in the truth - 1 Cor 13:6

A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies. - Prov 14:5

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. - Eph 4:25

Loins girt about with truth - Eph 6:14

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. - 2 Thess 2:12

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Tim 2:15

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; - Eph 4:14

Prove all things - 1 Thess 5:21

Abstain from all appearance of evil - 1 Thess 5:22

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. - Isaiah 8:20


17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. Rom 16:17-18


2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. - 2 Cor 11:2-4


13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. - 2 Cor 11:13-15


5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Luke 7:5-13

Alas, if only Christians would put into practice all the Scripture they know, the church would be in a much better position to deal with the world and with the worldliness that affects and even infects the church.

Instead far too many misuse Scripture to build doctrines that aren't there, to divide brethren, or to falsely accuse brethren, especially when it comes to those who point out such error.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

When dealing with unbelievers, the question of how old the universe and earth appear to be is a distraction from the real issue, the metaphysical (or theological) one.

Fundamentally, viewpoints such as scientific materialism/naturalism need eternal matter.

When it was established scientifically that the universe had a beginning, they lost their footing.

Arguing with them over the age of the universe allows them to present the illusion that they haven’t, that they always believed the universe was finite in origin.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Some atheists have proposed an eternal multiverse in an attempt to get around the origin problem. But this just kicks the can down the metaphysical road. It doesn’t solve their problem.

Some have resorted to redefining “nothing” so that they can make matter pop into existence magically.
Some just flatly claim matter must have created itself.

Such arguments are philosophically untenable, having abandoned reason and science.

Some try to avoid the topic altogether by disparaging the important questions of origin and purpose. But this is exactly where the conversation needs to go. This is where the confrontation needs to take place.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Alas, if only Christians would put into practice all the Scripture they know, the church would be in a much better position to deal with the world and with the worldliness that affects and even infects the church.

Instead far too many misuse Scripture to build doctrines that aren't there, to divide brethren, or to falsely accuse brethren, especially when it comes to those who point out such error.

Well I do agree that the saved should of course practice what they preach, but the age of the earth and the universe is only about 6000 years old. So Christians should correct the lie.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. - Galatians 1:10

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Evolution is a similar distraction from the real issue, which is origins. Biological evolution of any sort needs existing life. And existing life needs the right environment.

The fundamental issue is how life could have arisen. It couldn’t without a very finely tuned universe and planet (age aside), which we just “happen” to have.

Even given such a universe and planet, no one has a clue how life could have arisen from strictly materialistic/naturalistic causes. The programming in DNA cannot be a function of matter alone. Physics and chemistry alone won’t get you there.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Well I do agree that the saved should of course practice what they preach, but the age of the earth and the universe is only about 6000 years old. So Christians should correct the lie.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. - Galatians 1:10

Again, origins is what needs to be addressed, which is not what age of the earth or universe are concerned with. Nothing ages, or has an appearance of age, unless it first exists. The fundamental question is, what is the cosmos’ source?

The same goes for evolution. Nothing evolves unless it first exists. The fundamental question is, what is life’s source? Atheistic/scientific materialism/naturalism has no answer for this. Such worldviews are powerless to find the answer.

Science is pointing to origins beyond a mere material/natural universe and causes. There are those who would love to distract from that. It is a mistake to let them.

 

[37818]

. . . but the age of the earth and the universe is only about 6000 years old.

What is your Biblical evidence for the 6000 years?

First of the Six Days.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

What is your Biblical evidence for the 6000 years?

First of the Six Days.

Everything created in 6 days, Adam and Eve created on day 6. Now go through the genealogies with the ages of the father when he begat their son. This gives about 4000 years until Christ and so about 6000 years until today.

The Lord Jesus Christ clearly believed in 6 day, recent creation (of course He did it and knows when) when He said:

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. - Mark 10:6