Johann!@#
Member
Why I believe you are incorrect re A and B.
Really not a long sermon from my Texas Baptist pastor.
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1 John 3: 17
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Really not a long sermon from my Texas Baptist pastor.
Johann!@#
Member
let's answer with Scriptures. Hermeneutical style.
NASB (UPDATED) TEXT: MATTHEW 13:18-23
18"Hear then the parable of the sower. 19When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. 20The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 23And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
13:18-23 Jesus' interpretation of this parable was given to the disciples privately.
13:19 "the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart" In the parallel in Mark 4:15 he is called Satan. 2 Corinthians 4:4 describes his work among men. It is surprising that the evil one appears so often in these parables (cf. Matt. 13:25, 28, 39). Jesus asserted the presence of a personal force of evil who is out to thwart God's will for both nations and individuals. There is a veiled reference in these parables to the three enemies of man:
Satan (cf. Matt. 13:19; Eph. 2:2)
the world system (cf. Matt. 13:22; Eph. 2:2; James 4:4)
mankind's fallen nature (cf. Eph. 2:3)
SPECIAL TOPIC: PERSONAL EVIL
13:20 "the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy"
This was obviously a superficial response to Jesus and His message as the context shows. True salvation is an initial response of repentance and faith followed by an ongoing response of repentance and faith. There are many in the visible Church who use Christian words, attend Christian meetings, and read the Christian Bible, but do not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ (cf. Matt. 7:21-23; 2 Peter 2).
13:21-22 "but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away" Christlikeness in attitude and lifestyle is evidence of a valid profession (cf. the books of 1 John. and James). An initial response, even when exuberant, is not always permanent or valid.
The NT speaks often of those who heard having turned way.
no root, Matt. 13:21; Mark 4:17; Luke 8:13
fall away, Matt. 24:10
do not abide, John 15:6
gone astray, 1 Tim. 1:9; 6:21; 2 Tim. 2:18
shipwreck, 1 Tim. 1:19
fall away, 1 Tim. 4:1
apostasy, 2 Thess. 2:3
falling away, Heb. 3:12
fall away, Heb. 6:6
turn away, 2 Pet. 2:20-22
Christianity is a relationship which must be maintained! It involves an initial response (i.e., John 1:12; Rom. 4), a continuing response (James and 1 John), and a faithful conclusion (Hebrews 11)! Eternal life has observable characteristics!
The First Christian Primer: Matthew
This ties in with Matthew 25.
Johann!@#
Member
"gold ring"
This was a sign of wealth; often in the Greco-Roman culture several rings were worn on each hand.
SPECIAL TOPIC: WEALTH
NASB, NRSV "poor man in dirty clothes"
NKJV "a poor man in filthy clothes"
TEV "a man in ragged clothes"
NJB "a poor man. . .in shabby clothes"
This implies not only poverty, but a beggar, the cultural opposite of the finely dressed man.
2:4 "have you not made distinctions among yourselves" "Distinctions" is a compound word of dia (through) with krina (judge). Verses 4 and 5 are questions which expect a "yes" answer. Believers were and are guilty of showing distinctions and favoritism.
2:5 "Listen" This is an AORIST ACTIVE IMPERATIVE which expresses urgency. Remember James' emphasis is on "the word of God"!
"my beloved brethren" See notes at James 1:2 and 1:9.
"did not God choose the poor of this world" "Choose" is an AORIST MIDDLE INDICATIVE (cf. Eph. 1:4).
We get the English word "elect" from this Greek term. Notice how election is linked here with a certain socio-economic group, not a national group nor individuals. God's ways are so different from the world (i.e., Isa. 55:6-13). Reversals are typical (in Scripture).
"Of this world" is literally "in this world" used in the sense of this world's goods. The irony is that God has chosen to bless the poor and socially ostracized. God has chosen them and made them rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, but the local worship leaders were favoring the wealthy and powerful.
These were the very ones who were persecuting the early believers. The gospel being preached to the poor was a sign of the New Age (cf. Isa. 61ff; Matt. 11:5; Luke 1:51-53; 4:18; 7:22).
The poor have always felt ostracized from "official" religion, but they were wonderfully accepted and embraced by Jesus. The poor gladly accepted Christ, while the rich tended to trust in their own resources (cf. Matt. 19:23-26). This is not to imply that every poor person is saved, but they surely are welcome to come to Jesus. Most of the early church were from the poorer classes of society.
Are we still talking about "only give to the brothers in the local ekklesia?
"if someone says"
This is a THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE, "someone may say." It is structured like the diatribe form (a supposed objector) of James 1:26.
"he has faith" Biblical faith (pistis) has several aspects:
doctrine (i.e, "the faith" in Acts; cf. 1 John 4:1-3; Jude 3,20)
personal relationship and commitment to Jesus (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13)
godly lifestyle (cf. James and 1 John)
All three aspects are involved in genuine, mature faith.
SPECIAL TOPIC: Believe, Trust, Faith, and Faithfulness in the Old Testament
SPECIAL TOPIC: FAITH, BELIEVE, OR TRUST (NT)
"Can that faith save him?"
This is used in an eschatological sense (cf. Acts 10:42; Rom. 14:10,12). Judgment will be based on
works (cf. Matt. 16:27; 25:31ff; Rom. 2:6; 2 Cor, 5:10; Gal. 6:7-9)
faith (cf. Rom. 4; 1 Cor. 3:10-15; Gal. 3)
This is the second question of verse 14. It also expects a "no" answer.
2:15 "if" This is a third class conditional sentence (i.e., potential action) which is an example of how believers should not act, especially toward other believers.
2:16 "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled" Verse 16 has three IMPERATIVES used as a prayer.
This phrase is a PRESENT ACTIVE IMPERATIVE.
"Be warmed" is a PRESENT MIDDLE (deponent) IMPERATIVE
"Be filled" is a PRESENT MIDDLE IMPERATIVE.
This is a veiled prayer for God to provide their needs. It is an OT idiom for God's provision (cf. Judg. 18:6; 1 Sam. 1:17; 20:42; 2 Sam. 15:9).
It reflects a shallow, flippant response, much like our "I will pray for you" (cf. 1 John 3:17-18) when used in an insincere manner. One thing is sure, the ones saying these veiled prayers are not going to do anything themselves to help!
The Book of James, Chapter 2!
This was a sign of wealth; often in the Greco-Roman culture several rings were worn on each hand.
SPECIAL TOPIC: WEALTH
NASB, NRSV "poor man in dirty clothes"
NKJV "a poor man in filthy clothes"
TEV "a man in ragged clothes"
NJB "a poor man. . .in shabby clothes"
This implies not only poverty, but a beggar, the cultural opposite of the finely dressed man.
2:4 "have you not made distinctions among yourselves" "Distinctions" is a compound word of dia (through) with krina (judge). Verses 4 and 5 are questions which expect a "yes" answer. Believers were and are guilty of showing distinctions and favoritism.
2:5 "Listen" This is an AORIST ACTIVE IMPERATIVE which expresses urgency. Remember James' emphasis is on "the word of God"!
"my beloved brethren" See notes at James 1:2 and 1:9.
"did not God choose the poor of this world" "Choose" is an AORIST MIDDLE INDICATIVE (cf. Eph. 1:4).
We get the English word "elect" from this Greek term. Notice how election is linked here with a certain socio-economic group, not a national group nor individuals. God's ways are so different from the world (i.e., Isa. 55:6-13). Reversals are typical (in Scripture).
"Of this world" is literally "in this world" used in the sense of this world's goods. The irony is that God has chosen to bless the poor and socially ostracized. God has chosen them and made them rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, but the local worship leaders were favoring the wealthy and powerful.
These were the very ones who were persecuting the early believers. The gospel being preached to the poor was a sign of the New Age (cf. Isa. 61ff; Matt. 11:5; Luke 1:51-53; 4:18; 7:22).
The poor have always felt ostracized from "official" religion, but they were wonderfully accepted and embraced by Jesus. The poor gladly accepted Christ, while the rich tended to trust in their own resources (cf. Matt. 19:23-26). This is not to imply that every poor person is saved, but they surely are welcome to come to Jesus. Most of the early church were from the poorer classes of society.
Are we still talking about "only give to the brothers in the local ekklesia?
"if someone says"
This is a THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE, "someone may say." It is structured like the diatribe form (a supposed objector) of James 1:26.
"he has faith" Biblical faith (pistis) has several aspects:
doctrine (i.e, "the faith" in Acts; cf. 1 John 4:1-3; Jude 3,20)
personal relationship and commitment to Jesus (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13)
godly lifestyle (cf. James and 1 John)
All three aspects are involved in genuine, mature faith.
SPECIAL TOPIC: Believe, Trust, Faith, and Faithfulness in the Old Testament
SPECIAL TOPIC: FAITH, BELIEVE, OR TRUST (NT)
"Can that faith save him?"
This is used in an eschatological sense (cf. Acts 10:42; Rom. 14:10,12). Judgment will be based on
works (cf. Matt. 16:27; 25:31ff; Rom. 2:6; 2 Cor, 5:10; Gal. 6:7-9)
faith (cf. Rom. 4; 1 Cor. 3:10-15; Gal. 3)
This is the second question of verse 14. It also expects a "no" answer.
2:15 "if" This is a third class conditional sentence (i.e., potential action) which is an example of how believers should not act, especially toward other believers.
2:16 "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled" Verse 16 has three IMPERATIVES used as a prayer.
This phrase is a PRESENT ACTIVE IMPERATIVE.
"Be warmed" is a PRESENT MIDDLE (deponent) IMPERATIVE
"Be filled" is a PRESENT MIDDLE IMPERATIVE.
This is a veiled prayer for God to provide their needs. It is an OT idiom for God's provision (cf. Judg. 18:6; 1 Sam. 1:17; 20:42; 2 Sam. 15:9).
It reflects a shallow, flippant response, much like our "I will pray for you" (cf. 1 John 3:17-18) when used in an insincere manner. One thing is sure, the ones saying these veiled prayers are not going to do anything themselves to help!
The Book of James, Chapter 2!
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Good! If we agreed about EVERYTHING, then one of us would be superfluous.
Johann!@#
Member
NASB, NRSV "poor man in dirty clothes"Good! If we agreed about EVERYTHING, then one of us would be superfluous.
NKJV "a poor man in filthy clothes"
TEV "a man in ragged clothes"
NJB "a poor man. . .in shabby clothes"
This implies not only poverty, but a beggar, the cultural opposite of the finely dressed man.
2:4 "have you not made distinctions among yourselves" "Distinctions" is a compound word of dia (through) with krina (judge). Verses 4 and 5 are questions which expect a "yes" answer. Believers were and are guilty of showing distinctions and favoritism.
2:5 "Listen" This is an AORIST ACTIVE IMPERATIVE which expresses urgency. Remember James' emphasis is on "the word of God"!
"my beloved brethren" See notes at James 1:2 and 1:9.
"did not God choose the poor of this world" "Choose" is an AORIST MIDDLE INDICATIVE (cf. Eph. 1:4).
We get the English word "elect" from this Greek term. Notice how election is linked here with a certain socio-economic group, not a national group nor individuals. God's ways are so different from the world (i.e., Isa. 55:6-13). Reversals are typical (in Scripture).
"Of this world" is literally "in this world" used in the sense of this world's goods. The irony is that God has chosen to bless the poor and socially ostracized. God has chosen them and made them rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, but the local worship leaders were favoring the wealthy and powerful.
These were the very ones who were persecuting the early believers. The gospel being preached to the poor was a sign of the New Age (cf. Isa. 61ff; Matt. 11:5; Luke 1:51-53; 4:18; 7:22).
The poor have always felt ostracized from "official" religion, but they were wonderfully accepted and embraced by Jesus. The poor gladly accepted Christ, while the rich tended to trust in their own resources (cf. Matt. 19:23-26). This is not to imply that every poor person is saved, but they surely are welcome to come to Jesus. Most of the early church were from the poorer classes of society.
Are we still talking about "only give to the brothers in the local ekklesia?
Can we agree on this?
Gee whiz I go on a short vaca and while I'm gone you join and Salty uses the the scripture I posted as the OP and I return and the OP explodes... How about this illustration from scripture?... Brother Glen
Luke 10: 29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Johann!@#
Member
Excellent Scripture references.Gee whiz I go on a short vaca and while I'm gone you join and Salty uses the the scripture I posted as the OP and I return and the OP explodes... How about this illustration from scripture?... Brother Glen
Luke 10: 29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Yep-that's me-wherever I go I cause quite a stir.
I believe in practical Christianity and the ekklesia is not the local building-
Shalom brother.
Johann.
... I go on a short vaca and while I'm gone you join and Salty uses the the scripture I posted as the OP and I return and the OP explodes... How about this illustration from scripture?... Brother Glen
Luke 10: 29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? ...
There is a GIGANTIC difference between the NEED of this man as opposed to the Greed of others.
If I just hand out cash (or even food) to some - that would actually be enabling them.. To truly help them - I would help them work on a budget, maybe assist in getting a part time job - Mrs. Salty would show how to take a pound of hamburger and a box of hamburger help to make the food last longer. She would explain that they do not need to buy steak, or to eat at MacDonald 4 nights a week.
Now, granted - if a persons house were to burn down - providing food, shelter and clothing would be the foremost actions taken!
Let me ask this question - if a friend was taking a course - and was way behind in the work - they asked you how to cheat so they could pass the final exam - of course you would not do so - (at least I hope that would be the answer!) No, you would tell them that it looks like they will fail the test - but you are willing to help them study the next semester.
I remember my Dad a Christian man and I grew up in Christian home... My Dad would help anyone, he didn't ask if they believed like him... Didn't matter to him your race or color... Or if the person could pay him back or not if it was a monetary transaction... But if someone helped him, he would always thank the person and say, thanks for your help, if you need a hand let me know... I owe you one... Then they would shake on it... In his day a handshake meant something, does it mean the same thing now?... Are you looking for a hand or a handout?... Are you a True Samaritan or a priest and a Levite?... Brother Glen
Johann!@#
Member
I was in a ministry called The Ark here in South Africa-same as David Wilkerson and have met Nicky Cruz in person-and we worked on the Matt 25 principle catering to the poor and needy-we went out in teams, daily till late at night going into places where angels would fear to go-we also were involved in building houses for those in rural areas.I remember my Dad a Christian man and I grew up in Christian home... My Dad would help anyone, he didn't ask if they believed like him... Didn't matter to him your race or color... Or if the person could pay him back or not if it was a monetary transaction... But if someone helped him, he would always thank the person and say, thanks for your help, if you need a hand let me know... I owe you one... Then they would shake on it... In his day a handshake meant something, does it mean the same thing now?... Are you looking for a hand or a handout?... Are you a True Samaritan or a priest and a Levite?... Brother Glen
Alas!
I have witnessed so many wonderful conversions and many became Pastors.
If we want to see a small scale revival-this is the way to go.
My notes are from a dear Baptist minister Bob Utley-retired now.
Johann.
Yes, in the Greek, ekklesia is referring to:
the an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
as well as:
an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
But it is interesting that in Acts 19:37 - "Churches" is not Strongs 1577, but rather Strongs 2417
One other thing - in Contemporary English - "Church" also refers to the building!
and FWIW - One meaning of Temple (Matt 21:12 is Strongs 2411
Yes, in the Greek, ekklesia is referring to:
the an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
as well as:
an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
But it is interesting that in Acts 19:37 - "Churches" is not Strongs 1577, but rather Strongs 2417
One other thing - in Contemporary English - "Church" also refers to the building!
and FWIW - One meaning of Temple (Matt 21:12 is Strongs 2411
Johann!@#
Member
CHURCH (ekklēsia)
This Greek term, ekklēsia, is from two words, ek, "out of" and kalēo, "call." This word had a secular use (i.e., citizens called to a town meeting, cf. Acts 19:32,39,41). The Septuagint (Koine Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible) used this term to translate "congregation of Israel" (Qahal, BDB 874, KB 1078, cf. Num. 16:3; 20:4; Deut. 31:30; Acts7:38).
The early NT church saw themselves as a continuation of the OT people of God. They were the new Israel (cf. Rom. 2:28-29; Gal. 3:29; 6:16; 1 Pet. 2:5,9; Rev. 1:6), the fulfillment of God's worldwide mission (cf. Gen. 3:15; 12:3; Exod. 19:5-6; Matt. 28:18-20; Luke 24:46,47; Acts 1:8; Millard Erickson, Christian Theology, 2nd ed., pp. 1035-1059).
See SPECIAL TOPIC: YHWH'S ETERNAL REDEMPTIVE PLAN
This term is used in several senses in the New Testament.
a special, called town hall meeting ‒ Acts 19:32,39,41 (this sense noted in Herodotus)
most usages in the NT refer to local congregations of believers
sometimes a regional aspect
Acts 8:3; 9:31
1 Cor. 16:1,19
2 Cor. 8:1
Gal. 1:2,22
churches started by Paul (collectively)
Rom. 16:4,5,16
1 Cor. 4:17; 7:17; 11:16
2 Cor. 8:18-19,23-24
rarely the universal aspect is highlighted
Matt. 16:18 (first use in the Gospels)
1 Cor. 10:32; 11:22; 12:28
all usages in Ephesians (a cyclical letter)
Phil 3:6
Col. 1:18,24
the concept of the full complement of believers, living and dead ‒ Heb. 12:23
The church is a gathered people, not a building. There were no church buildings for hundreds of years. In James (one of the earliest Christian books) the church is referred to by the term "synagōgē" (the assembly). This term for the church occurs only in James (cf. James 2:2; 5:14).
Johann
Johann!@#
Member
Synagogue and how did the early ekklesia met or fellowship- In buildings?
Lol!
is it not written where two or three are gathered IN my name-?
We here in the West have it wrong-I'm afraid-ancient rabbinical writings will throw a flood of light on Scriptures-customs and manners-especially the Jewish wedding.
Should you wish-I will gladly share my sources with you as long as we are not too dogmatic-willing to learn, in a humble manner-so to speak.
I am not here "to win an argument" but to share glad tidings!
Shalom to you and precious family.
Johann.