Saved Without Knowing the Resurrection?

[John of Japan]

In a class I discussed the Gospel and urged the students to make sure the resurrection of Christ was always part of their Gospel presentations/evangelism, because that doctrine/event is clearly part of Paul's Gospel in 1 Corinthians 15. Again, in the book of Acts the resurrection of Christ was part of the Gospel presentations recorded there.

Then I was asked by a student, "Can a person be saved without knowing about the resurrection?" I'm not sure I gave a sufficient answer. What would you say?

 

[canadyjd]

It is clear, especially with Paul, there is a strong focus on the resurrection in scripture. I think the mention of the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 is more focused on maturing in your understanding rather than initial salvation.

Paul does make the direct link in Romans, I think, “if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved”. That direct connection is not made in every recorded conversion, however.

I think of Cornelius who had the Spirit fall upon him before Peter finished preaching.

I think of the Ethiopian Eunuch and I don’t remember the resurrection being mentioned in that passage.

Since I believe salvation is a work of God from start to finish… where a person responds to God Holy Spirit regeneration with faith in Jesus, I don’t think it necessary to believe:understand the resurrection to come into that right relationship, though it will certainly follow soon afterward.

We must be careful, imo, not to create a “formula” for salvation. “The wind blows where it wills, so is everyone born of the Spirit.”

Preach the gospel, which includes the resurrection as you mentioned, and God Holy Spirit will take care of the rest.

Then, teach them to obey all Christ commanded, which includes the resurrection.

peace to you

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If someone trusts in Christ without knowing about the resurrection and then never hears about it for the rest of his life (how likely is that?) then I'm sure he can be saved. If someone hears about it and rejects or ignores it, I'm not so sure, but God is the one who will decide, not I, and He judges righteously.

 

[tyndale1946]

If someone trusts in Christ without knowing about the resurrection and then never hears about it for the rest of his life (how likely is that?) then I'm sure he can be saved. If someone hears about it and rejects or ignores it, I'm not so sure, but God is the one who will decide, not I, and He judges righteously.

Romans 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Brother Glen

 

[37818]

The resurrection is commonly presumed.
John 3:16, 2 John 1:9, 1 John 5:9-13.

 

[John of Japan]

It is clear, especially with Paul, there is a strong focus on the resurrection in scripture. I think the mention of the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 is more focused on maturing in your understanding rather than initial salvation.

Paul does make the direct link in Romans, I think, “if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved”. That direct connection is not made in every recorded conversion, however.

I should have said that the class is "Advanced Missions." So the context of the discussion was cross-cultural evangelism.

At any rate, what is "initial salvation"? Never heard of that.

I think of Cornelius who had the Spirit fall upon him before Peter finished preaching.

I think of the Ethiopian Eunuch and I don’t remember the resurrection being mentioned in that passage.

I am sure that both me knew the resurrection was real, though. Many tracts in America do not have the resurrection of Christ in them, but then the average WASP in America knows about Easter, which celebrates the resurrection.

A missionary (not me) once gave the Gospel to a Japanese young woman, leaving out the resurrection. She replied, "Why should I worship another dead person?" since Japanese religion is all about ancestor worship.

Since I believe salvation is a work of God from start to finish… where a person responds to God Holy Spirit regeneration with faith in Jesus, I don’t think it necessary to believe:understand the resurrection to come into that right relationship, though it will certainly follow soon afterward.

I certainly agree here.

We must be careful, imo, not to create a “formula” for salvation. “The wind blows where it wills, so is everyone born of the Spirit.”

Preach the gospel, which includes the resurrection as you mentioned, and God Holy Spirit will take care of the rest.

Then, teach them to obey all Christ commanded, which includes the resurrection.

peace to you

Why is not the Gospel itself a set "formula," as you put it? Are there not some facts of the Gospel event that we must share when giving the Gospel? For example, can we leave out sin (explicit in 1 Cor. 15)?

 

[John of Japan]

The resurrection is commonly presumed.
John 3:16, 2 John 1:9, 1 John 5:9-13.

I don't think any of these three passages apply to the subject. The first one was before the resurrection, and the second two were to people already Christians, whereas the thread topic is evangelism.

 

[John of Japan]

If someone trusts in Christ without knowing about the resurrection and then never hears about it for the rest of his life (how likely is that?) then I'm sure he can be saved. If someone hears about it and rejects or ignores it, I'm not so sure, but God is the one who will decide, not I, and He judges righteously.

I get what you are saying here. However, what if the hearer is an ancestor worshipper, and decides to add this Jesus who died for sins to the rest of those he prays to? I wish you would give Scripture for your viewpoint.

But as you say, it is God who decides who gets saved. Is it then your view that the content of the message does not matter in salvation?

 

[Marooncat79]

Great topic as I am currently reviewing how I share the Gospel. There is much much light and heavy lifting by Paul for us in I Cor 15:1-8

there are def several “facts” which must be relayed when sharing the Gospel. We see them again in Acts 17.

as for me personally, I am unsure what “exactly” must be shared but I have seen Gods hand at work.

I shared the Gospel many years ago and was actually embarrassed for myself and what a terrible hatchet job that I thought that I had done. Turns out, he was truly converted -seemingly. As I kept prattling on, he kept saying “yes, I believe, please tell me more”.

seemingly, God uses our weaknesses in such times.


it was crazy looking back upon it

 

[Marooncat79]

Then, there are times when I thought that I did an ok job and nothing but crickets and weird looks

 

[kyredneck]

Saved Without Knowing the Resurrection?

Saved without being baptized? Mark 16:16

 

[alexa dorris]

Great topic as I am currently reviewing how I share the Gospel. There is much much light and heavy lifting by Paul for us in I Cor 15:1-8

there are def several “facts” which must be relayed when sharing the Gospel. We see them again in Acts 17.

as for me personally, I am unsure what “exactly” must be shared but I have seen Gods hand at work.

I shared the Gospel many years ago and was actually embarrassed for myself and what a terrible hatchet job that I thought that I had done. Turns out, he was truly converted -seemingly. As I kept prattling on, he kept saying “yes, I believe, please tell me more”.

seemingly, God uses our weaknesses in such times.


it was crazy looking back upon it

Amen! This is so true. His strength is made perfect in our weakness

 

[John of Japan]

Saved without being baptized? Mark 16:16

Forgive me, but I'm not sure what your point is here.

 

[canadyjd]

I should have said that the class is "Advanced Missions." So the context of the discussion was cross-cultural evangelism.

At any rate, what is "initial salvation"? Never heard of that.

I am sure that both me knew the resurrection was real, though. Many tracts in America do not have the resurrection of Christ in them, but then the average WASP in America knows about Easter, which celebrates the resurrection.

A missionary (not me) once gave the Gospel to a Japanese young woman, leaving out the resurrection. She replied, "Why should I worship another dead person?" since Japanese religion is all about ancestor worship.

I certainly agree here.

Why is not the Gospel itself a set "formula," as you put it? Are there not some facts of the Gospel event that we must share when giving the Gospel? For example, can we leave out sin (explicit in 1 Cor. 15)?

I used “initial salvation” to mean the moment a person is indwelt by God Holy Spirit. At that moment, when God Holy Spirit has drawn a person to the truth of Jesus as Savior.

I hesitate to declare a “formula” for this to occur since it is a work of God Holy Spirit and could lead some to believe God is manipulated by our actions to respond to us by granting salvation. Also, God may work differently in each person’s life.

For example, I once knew a man that believed a person must weep when they are “saved”. His reasoning was that weeping demonstrated repentance and without weeping there could be no salvation. That is a “formula” 1. Hear the gospel. 2. Weep (repentance) 3. Accept Christ as Savior.

You are correct that Paul gave a clear definition of what was of “first importance” concerning the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15. He also mentions that Christ was seen by more than 500 people after His resurrection that knew He had died. I rarely hear anyone mention that in a gospel presentation and Paul considered it of “first importance”

I don’t believe you should leave out any part of 1 Corinthians 15. The goods news is that if you do, (as one of my profs was fond of saying) God is able to hit straight with a crooked stick.

We are the crooked stick, holding truths in jars of clay, doing our best and perhaps, like Peter, God Holy Spirit will move upon someone before we get a chance to finish our long winded, well rehearsed gospel presentation.

Praise be to our Lord

Peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

It is clear, especially with Paul, there is a strong focus on the resurrection in scripture. I think the mention of the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 is more focused on maturing in your understanding rather than initial salvation.

Paul does make the direct link in Romans, I think, “if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved”. That direct connection is not made in every recorded conversion, however.

I think of Cornelius who had the Spirit fall upon him before Peter finished preaching.

I think of the Ethiopian Eunuch and I don’t remember the resurrection being mentioned in that passage.

No, the mention of the resurrection in 1 Cor. 15 is not "more focused on maturing in your understanding rather than initial salvation." Paul explicitly says that the gospel by which they were saved and that he declared to them included testimony to the resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Cornelius was not saved without hearing about the Resurrection--Peter preached the Resurrection plainly and even testified to his being among those who were witnesses of it:

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

We do not have any basis to hold that any of the evangelistic accounts recorded in Scripture are comprehensive accounts of all that was said and took place. Concerning the Ethiopian eunuch, we are explicitly told that Philip said more than what is recorded:

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

There is no basis in the text to hold that when Philip preached Jesus unto him, he did not testify to the Resurrection.

Testifying to the Resurrection is the very center of preaching the Gospel.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

If someone trusts in Christ without knowing about the resurrection and then never hears about it for the rest of his life (how likely is that?) then I'm sure he can be saved. If someone hears about it and rejects or ignores it, I'm not so sure, but God is the one who will decide, not I, and He judges righteously.

If someone hears about the Resurrection and rejects or ignores it, he is not and cannot be saved:

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Reynolds]

In a class I discussed the Gospel and urged the students to make sure the resurrection of Christ was always part of their Gospel presentations/evangelism, because that doctrine/event is clearly part of Paul's Gospel in 1 Corinthians 15. Again, in the book of Acts the resurrection of Christ was part of the Gospel presentations recorded there.

Then I was asked by a student, "Can a person be saved without knowing about the resurrection?" I'm not sure I gave a sufficient answer. What would you say?

No. Romans 10 pretty plain about that.

 

[canadyjd]

No, the mention of the resurrection in 1 Cor. 15 is not "more focused on maturing in your understanding rather than initial salvation." Paul explicitly says that the gospel by which they were saved and that he declared to them included testimony to the resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Cornelius was not saved without hearing about the Resurrection--Peter preached the Resurrection plainly and even testified to his being among those who were witnesses of it:

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

We do not have any basis to hold that any of the evangelistic accounts recorded in Scripture are comprehensive accounts of all that was said and took place. Concerning the Ethiopian eunuch, we are explicitly told that Philip said more than what is recorded:

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

There is no basis in the text to hold that when Philip preached Jesus unto him, he did not testify to the Resurrection.

Testifying to the Resurrection is the very center of preaching the Gospel.

Not arguing about the emphasis on the resurrection in scripture.

The question of the OP, I thought, is whether a person can be saved without understanding the resurrection.

What say you? Yes or no?

Additionally, Paul plainly stated in 1 Corinthians 15 that part of the gospel that is if “first importance” is the eye witness testimony of the 500 folks that saw Him alive after the resurrection.

Can a person be saved without hearing about the more than 500 people thst saw Jesus alive after the resurrection?

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Not arguing about the emphasis on the resurrection in scripture.

The question of the OP, I thought, is whether a person can be saved without understanding the resurrection.

What say you? Yes or no?

peace to you

There is no biblical basis for holding that anyone is saved without believing in the Resurrection of Christ from the dead. No, a person cannot be saved without believing in the Resurrection.

 

[canadyjd]

There is no biblical basis for holding that anyone is saved without believing in the Resurrection of Christ from the dead. No, a person cannot be saved without believing in the Resurrection.

Since Paul emphasizes the eye witness testimony of the 500 folks that saw Jesus alive as of “first importance”, can a person be saved without believing those folks saw Jesus alive after the resurrection?

Shouldn’t that info be included in every gospel presentation?

BTW, I stand corrected, Peter did preach the resurrection to Cornelius.

peace to you