Featured Saved Without Knowing the Resurrection?

I don’t disagree that the resurrection is an essential part of presenting the gospel and should be explicitly stated.

What I’m having trouble with is the idea God Holy Spirit cannot bring someone to salvation unless they hear and believe in the resurrection.

Is the doctrine that Jesus died for our sins and we can have salvation by faith in Him not enough to move a person into a right relationship with God by the power of God Holy Spirit? Is God Holy Spirit saying “well rats, I really wanted to bring that person to salvation but that Christian didn’t mention the resurrection?”

Let’s not forget Paul’s comment “according to the scriptures”. Must a person understand all the scriptures that point to the suffering servant dying, the conflict with Satan bruising His heel and so on? Can we leave that part of the gospel out, or is “according to the scriptures” not part of the gospel?

peace to you

 

This response shows that you are not really interested in focusing on what God has revealed about what He has done. The inspired revelation that I quoted most certainly proves something of exceeding importance. No one saw the risen Christ except people whom God specifically chose to show Him to them. That was entirely the work of God.

To claim that proves nothing is nonsense. It proves that God specifically showed His risen Christ to people whom He then commissioned to testify to their being eyewitnesses of His Resurrection. If those people would not have witnessed to others about their seeing the risen Christ, they would have been disobedient to God.

You do not have any proof from Scripture that the apostolic company routinely and randomly chose to disobey God by not testifying to the Resurrection appearances in their evangelism.

 

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul under inspiration teach what the content of the gospel is; all 5 of them stress the death, burial, resurrection, and appearances of Christ. The Bible itself is the standard--not the words of man.

 

And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. Luke 23:42


Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev 22:14
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

and Jesus said to him, 'Verily I say to thee to-day, with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'


Knowing about the resurrection?

And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Does appear he had heard something relative to the gospel of the kingdom of God.

Just saying!

 

Wrong. I have already shown you that Paul in fact did present the burial of Christ in his gospel preaching that is recorded in Acts 13.

Acts 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. [Paul plainly told them that what he was preaching to them was the word of salvation!]

27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.

29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. [This is explicit testimony to the burial of Christ!]

30 But God raised him from the dead:

31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. [This is explicit testimony to the appearances of Christ to His witnesses.]

32 And we declare unto you glad tidings [εὐαγγελιζόμεθα; Gk. preach the gospel], how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Paul explicitly included testimony to the death (13:28-29a-b), burial (13:29c; implicit in 34-37 [repeated mention of "corruption," which takes place if someone is buried but not if they are cremated), resurrection (13:30; 33-37), and appearances of Christ (13:31) when he preached the gospel in Antioch of Pisida.

Furthermore, the divinely inspired unit is the entire book in each of the Gospels. The Spirit inspired every writer of the 4 Gospels to include explicit testimony to the death, burial, resurrection, and appearances of Christ. Each Gospel writer thus teaches that all 4 are part of the gospel message. John even says that what he has written in his book is written so that people might believe and have eternal life through that belief (John 20:31).

Acts 13:26-39, 1 Cor. 15:1-11, and all 4 Gospels categorically refute your position that the burial and the appearances of Christ are not part of the content of the gospel message. Six different inspired books of Scripture refute what you say.

 

I just had a thought I haven't thought to before and would like your opinion.

I would say in Acts 2 Peter is preaching the gospel and would even it would be the same gospel as the gospel of Christ therefore
it just came to mind.

Is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit also a part of the gospel?

Relative to Jesus John 14,15,16

Peter
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
“Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.

I also believe all of that is shown in the baptism of Jesus by John

Jesus went into the water = alive
Was suffered = death
Immediately came up out of the water = resurrection
The dove descending upon him = received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit
Declaration of Sonship

 

In truth I believe without the resurrection of Christ there would be no resurrection and therefore no salvation.

Let's face it, to date Jesus Christ is the only one who has lived and who died that has been raised incorruptible to die no more,

And all I can say is praise God for:

for if dead persons do not rise, neither hath Christ risen, and if Christ hath not risen, vain is your faith, ye are yet in your sins; then, also, those having fallen asleep in Christ did perish; 1 Cor 15:16-18

 

The answer to the question, can a person be saved without knowing about Christ's resurrection, is yes!

Anyone God chooses to save, because God credits his or her faith as righteousness, will be saved. Scripture clearly indicates belief in the God (Yahweh) that raised Jesus from the dead is a component of Christ's gospel. Thus according to Romans 4:24, it is belief in God, rather than belief in Christ's resurrection, that is required.

In Romans 10:9 scripture says, "if we believe God raised (something already done) Jesus from the dead, you will be saved." It does not say if you did not know about this, such as OT saints, you cannot be saved. The OT saints could believe in God without understanding the mystery of Christ, and still be saved. Abraham's faith was credited because Abraham believed in God and that God would keep His promises.

Fundamentally, the idea of saying you must believe in "X, Y, and Z" to be saved is unstudied legalistic nonsense. God must credit your faith, as He knows your heart, and your commitment to follow God and your love of God are essential. If we do not believe in God, or believe God rewards those who seek Him, we certainly do not fit scripture's stated requirements. Further, if we do not believe Jesus performed His miracles by the power of God, that seems to fall short of God's required beliefs established after the resurrection. In summary, we must believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

 

Well Peter, I believe was saved before it happened, so no, you don't need to. You do, however have to understand that Jesus is the Savior and trust in him.

 

I agree. But it was still faith in that same Messiah. I know that there has to be some aspects of what has to be believed about that Messiah, his saving character, or the Pharisees would have all been saved, since they had some kind of "faith", albeit not saving.

My point is, that when we start adding these doctrines that have been worked out by the church over the ages, and accepted by Orthodox believers of all stripes, it does not mean that anyone has to believe them in their developed meaning to be a genuine believer. I just don't know exactly where that line is to draw.

My personal opinion is that One has to believe that Jesus, or Christ, saves you from your sins by atonement, without a highly developed understanding of what that atonement entails. Different people can present different texts, but I'd rather say that a genuine believer will eventually come to believe certain things.

1. Jesus is Deity.
2. Jesus was born of a virgin.
3. Jesus died on the cross for our sins.
4. Jesus rose bodily from the grave.
5. Jesus will come again.