1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Is Unbelief A Sin?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, May 21, 2023.

  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    3,201
    Likes Received:
    546
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You cant read, nobody said all are Gods elect.
     
  2. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    149
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Then you must admit SOMEBODY (a LOT of somebodies) will end up in the lake of fire, eternally lost.
     
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    3,201
    Likes Received:
    546
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, by all means[unbelief is sin] and it's illustrated by the unbelief of the jews who departed from egypt Heb 3:16-19. Now notice vs 17 " them that had sinned" are them that believed not in vs 18-19, the sin was believing not or unbelief.

    16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

    17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

    18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

    19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

    So now when Paul preached that Christ died for our sins 1 Cor 15:3, and yet that didn't include their sin of unbelief, then he lied on Christ. The point is this, if Christ died for our sins, then He died for our unbelief, and we can't be condemned for it as some are Jn 3:18

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Now proof positive that unbelievers Christ died for can not be condemned for unbelief is Rom 5:10, that while we were enemies and unbelievers obviously, we still had been reconciled to God by the death of His Son, which is not the case if we are under condemnation for unbelief.
     
  4. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    149
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Unbelievers have their part in the lake of fire. Universalism is FALSE. More people will be in hell than in Heaven.
     
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,184
    Likes Received:
    2,489
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I guess you haven't looked in Revelation... We don't get to Heaven by merit but by Gods love and mercy... And does this look like a mass of humanity are sent to Hell?... Brother Glen:)

    Revelation 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.


    Btw... Its NOTHING you or I did to get there, it ALL a work of Jesus Christ alone!
     
  6. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,806
    Likes Received:
    215
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Ho!
    Unbelief is the second sin listed in the the deliberate actions of unrepentant men for which God casts them into the lake of fire, which is the penalty for sin, where he will wipe the memory of them from the minds of the saved and he likewise will forget them and never remember them anymore.

    Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
     
  7. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    149
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire. Period.
     
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    3,201
    Likes Received:
    546
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sure because they were not of Christs Sheep for whom He died. Jn 10:26

    26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

    If they would have been Sheep whom Christ died for, they would not have died in unbelief and in the rest of their sins. Jn 8:24

    4 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
     
  9. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,806
    Likes Received:
    215
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Hold on there a minute, pard.

    Sin is an action done in the body. It is a transgression of the law. It is in three stages for completion. Here:

    James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
    13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
    14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
    15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
    16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

    When God judges sinners at the final judgement it will be for their deeds, if I understand language.

    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    (the dead are defined here as simply those who do not have life and the book of life is there simply to prove that their names are not in it)

    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    The formula for sin and condemnation was illustrated in the first sin.

    6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

    It was the third thing that got her, the eating. This was the law that was transgressed.

    Being temted is not a sin.

    Hebrews 4:15
    For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.


    Matt 4 :1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

    2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

    3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

    4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

    6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

    7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

    8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

    9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

    10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

    1 Corinthians 10:13
    There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.


    What do you think?
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Matthew 5:27-28, ". . . Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. . . ."

    Matthew 15:18, ". . . But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. . . ."
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    3,201
    Likes Received:
    546
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I posted what I think.
     
  12. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,806
    Likes Received:
    215
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Point?
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,464
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Faith:
    Baptist
    To sin does not always require any physical action.
     
  14. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    149
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But if they then believe, they then become His sheep. Unbelievers are cast into the lake of fire.

    Unbelief is only forgiven when one becomes a believer. Christ died for all sins--that doesn't make anyone saved until that anyone receives Christ--John 1:12-13.
     
  15. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,184
    Likes Received:
    2,489
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Matthew 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


    Now tell me when did these redeemed saved sheep believe in the Lord?... Brother Glen:)
     
  16. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2020
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    149
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When they received Him, John 1:12-13.

    Thanks for the reference. I read every word of the New Testament twice a year.
     
  17. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,806
    Likes Received:
    215
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You must have this verse in mind.


    James 4:17
    Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    Do you think re 20 which I quoted, is filler or fluff and does not tell the whole story?
     
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    3,201
    Likes Received:
    546
    Faith:
    Baptist
    They were Sheep prior to believing, and thus said, thats the reason why they become believers. Now any unbelievers that are cast into the lake of fire is due to the fact that #1 Christ didn't die for them #2 because they were not His Sheep.
     
  19. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2023
    Messages:
    1,079
    Likes Received:
    100
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Those who hear God's voice and respond were His sheep before the foundation of the world. Those who do not respond are sheep of a different master who will perish with their slave master.
     
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,184
    Likes Received:
    2,489
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How do they hear this voice... Is it audible or a heart and soul voice?... They hear it because they're changed by GOD!

    Hebrews 8: 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

    12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


    And NO its not the voice of the preacher... Brother Glen:)
     
    #40 tyndale1946, Oct 17, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2023
Loading...