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Time Travel Theology
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
I am ridiculed, and then charged with "trying to pick a fight." But not a word concerning the fallacy of Time-Travel Theology. Go figure.
The one who accuses other people of using "Time Travel Theology" is claiming victim status as being ridiculed. Can't make this stuff up.
Scoffers may say that standing firm for truth is a (1) childish pejorative or (2) straining at gnats, but these fallacious arguments are without merit.
God's word means what it says.
(1) Why did the OT saints not go immediately to heaven before Christ died?
2) Why did the OT saints have to wait to be made perfect?
3) Time - Travel Theology is false theology.
The time travel view of justification by the blood of Christ is without merit. The view is that people who gained approval through faith under the Old Covenant, were fully justified by the "promised" blood of Christ. Their faith "looked forward" to Christ. This view is as mad as a mad hatter. In order for the time travel doctrine advocates to force their man-made doctrines into scripture they must resort to redefining words (i.e. draw always means compel rather than attract by lovingkindness.) They nullify scripture, Matthew 23:13 does not really say that men who were entering the kingdom were blocked. No that cannot be true because it demonstrates their mistaken doctrine is bogus. But the most egregious misuse of scripture is to ignore the given sequence, and claim the opposite sequence occurred. They put the cart before the horse again and again. How? By the use of time travel. Folks can be washed by the blood of Christ before Christ died. Mad and as ludicrous as this view is, they put it forth again and again, as if repeating an obvious falsehood somehow makes it less of a falsehood. I kid you not.
Abraham had as James would say, "live faith" rather than dead faith. From his faith flowed works, such as offering up Isaac.
Now the bone of contention, if we sidestep all the person insults and misrepresentations of the views of others, is whether we should use the term "justified" when OT saints gain approval through "live faith." Or, the alternate view, should we reserve the term "justified" to only refer to those washed by the actual blood of Christ. This alternate view is the one I advocate. I believe where we see translations use the term justified for OT Saints, that the translation should read "acted righteously." Thus we do not use the term "justified" to mean two very different things, which creates confusion.
Abraham had as James would say, "live faith" rather than dead faith. From his faith flowed works, such as offering up Isaac.
Now the bone of contention, if we sidestep all the person insults and misrepresentations of the views of others, is whether we should use the term "justified" when OT saints gain approval through "live faith." Or, the alternate view, should we reserve the term "justified" to only refer to those washed by the actual blood of Christ. This alternate view is the one I advocate. I believe where we see translations use the term justified for OT Saints, that the translation should read "acted righteously." Thus we do not use the term "justified" to mean two very different things, which creates confusion.
Yet another mind reader from the dark side.
"I am ridiculed, and then charged with "trying to pick a fight." But not a word concerning the fallacy of Time-Travel Theology. Go figure."
Note the use of fallacious argumentation, with nary a word concerning the fallacy of Time-Travel Theology.
When were the OT Saints made perfect? Before Christ died or did they have to wait in Abraham's bosom until after Christ died?
Why didn't the OT Saints go immediately to heaven and be enrolled per Hebrews 12:23.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
So you are going to stick with limited Atonement? That God only provided redemption for a select few?
Still the book was in existence. Names not written can only be removed after the Seals are removed. Why did God take this book back in time after God figured out who would be redeemed?
While you seem to indicate God was not prepared for people rejecting God. Because that would be God time traveling back to be prepared, to you.
So was the Lamb slain or should there have not been a book either, since to you God is bound by time?
You are the only one who thinks God time travels.
Because if the book existed, those named in the book were redeemed prior to creation, which is totally against this made up premise you are arguing against or for. Not sure exactly what you are arguing.
Something about God time traveling or what not.
You claim some interpret the two verses in Revelation incorrectly. You do realize that the lack of names does not cover the point you are making. That names are there refutes your point. You claim names were missing from the get go. That is your erroneous interpretation. Now you will just move the goal post.
That souls were not in torment shows they are redeemed, and not being punished for their sins. The only fact is that those in Abraham's bosom could not physically enter Paradise until Jesus presented them as firstfruits, after the physical point of the Cross.
Theology still gets that point wrong. People are still looking for a single future physical resurrection. There is literally nothing in the NT about that single future resurrection. The mention of the dead in Revelation 20:12-15 indicates all go into the LOF. We can only assume some don't at that point.
There is a resurrection of those beheaded. But not every one gets beheaded. Once again many assume there are more resurrected than just those beheaded. Assumptions upon assumptions. Now you introduce a time travel assumption. Only humans can time travel. God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit exist outside of time. Unless you assume they only exist in creation itself? If one exists outside of time, at what point in eternity did the Cross happen? Was there a Lamb slain in eternity along with a book in eternity? Once again:
"the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
The book and Lamb slain will exist after this creation ends, just like it was there since or before creation started. Only you think both were created at a single point of time, when Jesus was on the Cross physically. That is an assumption, as no verse claims that is when the Lamb slain nor the book were created.
Two things here though. Is the Lamb a literal Lamb slain? Is the book a literal book? The Lamb slain is a symbolic reference to the Cross, but not a literal Lamb slain. There may or may not be a literal Lamb. However the book may or may not be symbolic of God's Knowledge. The book can be literal without bending time. The book can have all names or just a few names, since that is not the point either, unless you base reality on human doctrine. It would seem disingenuous to point out names can be removed, if that were an impossibility, ie never there to begin with. It seems plausible and perfectly ordinary, that a name can be removed.
Exodus 32:33
"And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book."
Revelation 3:5
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
Next, you have to prove that God was only willing to redeem a select few, along with your point God could only redeem them after a certain point in human history. Why do you limit God to appease your human understanding?
Why waste my time with false claims. Did I say God only provided redemption for a select few? Nope
I said God provided the means of salvation for humanity. Now it is true only a few find the path to eternal life, and God redeems those few.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
If God provided redemption for all then all are redeemed whether or not they accept that redemption.
God has the last word on the matter. God blots their names out. Mathew 7:23
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
The verse does not say, "I decided from the beginning not to redeem them because I never knew they would exist."
You stated limited Atonement again:
Indeed, why do you waste time making false claims?
Why post endless falsehoods?
If God provided the means of redemption for humanity, that does not mean all were redeemed? Nope!
God promised to never blot out names from the Lamb's book of life.
Did anyone say God never knew of the existence of those not saved? Nope so yet another false claim.
What a waste.
Your claim that you are posting on this subject yet do not know what Revelation 3:5 says is dubious. Next you might claim the book of life in that verse does not refer to the Lamb's book of life. I am tired of the non-stop false claims.
If God provided the means of redemption for humanity, does that mean all were redeemed? Nope!
God promised to never blot out names from the Lamb's book of life.
Did anyone say God never knew of the existence of those not saved? Nope so yet another false claim.
Good grief, did you say that this book was the Lamb's book of life? Nope
Here is the biblical view.
Once a person's name is entered into the Lamb's book of life, they are saved forever.
Careful translators render the other similar sounding book as the Book of the Living.
Not the same book. Full Stop
timtofly
Well-Known Member
So no Scriptural basis for your point, but human commentary. Full stop. There is only one book of names written. The other book is the works humans do.
You still hold to limited Atonement based on a personal decision, and at the point a person decides, God writes their name into a ledger. Once written it cannot be unwritten. Still waiting for those verses that state your argument.
LOL, yet another "you, you, you" post signifying nothing.
The Book of the Living is well known as is the very different book, the Lamb's book of life.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Then post those well known verses from God's Word instead of human theology.
Otherwise you are saying that the lost are named in one book, and the redeemed in a seperate book without Scripture to back that up. God did not redeem the lost but were willing for them to perish, that is why they are in a seperate book, according to you.