What is the Revelation and How Should Christians Read it

[JD731]

Re 1:1, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of 1) the word of God, and of 2) the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear 3) the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ Is three things according to the text.

1)The word of God
2)The testimony of Jesus Christ
3) Prophecy

The Revelation is addressed to the 7 churches named, which at the time of the prophecy existed in Asia, a province of Asia Minor.

John the apostle was commanded to see and to write the prophecy of the Revelation and was commanded to write it in 3 divisions according to a time line. Here it is.


19 1) - past tense) Write the things which thou hast seen, and 2 - present tense) the things which are, and 3 - future tense) the things which shall be hereafter;



The things which "were," according to the text, when the command was given was after the vision of the glorified Christ in verses 12-19. Eight verses. John was to write that down. That was what was already past that he saw.

The things that “are” at the time of his writing are the seven churches in Asia. John received these instructions just before he saw the vision of Christ. Look!

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which “are” in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Following this line of logic and reasoning the things that are “hereafter” are those things that will be hereafter the Churches.

After this (testimony to the 7 churches) I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


This is the second trumpet sound in the context of the churches, and also the last.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The first trumpet sound was at the beginning of the Revelation before the testimony to the churches.

Re 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

This is basically the same words that are said here when a voice sounded as a trumpet.


11 Thess 4:3 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

What is most important among many important truths in the Revelation is the fact that it is the testimony of Jesus Christ.



16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.


Deut 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Revelation 4:2 through Re 22:21 is the testimony of Jesus Christ about events after the rapture of the church to heaven.

 

[taisto]

Revelation is a picture book. It is seen through many different cameras and angles. The analogy of John being brought to the producers trailer and watching the big game while trying to describe the different camera angles in the booth may be helpful. John goes from one view of a play to another view of the same play. In keeping with the number 7, he shows us the same play from 7 different angles so we can connect how the prophets of old had already been showing us these pictures that we could not see. He goes further and he shows us the plays that God would not let Daniel show in the scroll that God told him to roll up.

Notice in Revelation 1 how many times we are told that this is a picture book. It is never once described as a linear book of the future.

Moreso, this book is meant as an encouragement and blessing for the present church, not as some futuristic thing from which we desperately hope to be removed.

(Revelation 1:1-3,7,9-12)
This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the events that must soon take place. He sent an angel to present this revelation to his servant John, who faithfully reported everything he saw. This is his report of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. God blesses the one who reads the words of this prophecy to the church, and he blesses all who listen to its message and obey what it says, for the time is near.

Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven. And everyone will see him— even those who pierced him. And all the nations of the world will mourn for him. Yes! Amen!

I, John, am your brother and your partner in suffering and in God’s Kingdom and in the patient endurance to which Jesus calls us. I was exiled to the island of Patmos for preaching the word of God and for my testimony about Jesus. It was the Lord’s Day, and I was worshiping in the Spirit. Suddenly, I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet blast. It said, “Write in a book everything you see, and send it to the seven churches in the cities of Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.” When I turned to see who was speaking to me, I saw seven gold lampstands.

 

[JD731]

Revelation is a picture book. It is seen through many different cameras and angles. .

My Bible does not say that.
It says it is the word of God, the testimony of Jesus Christ, and his prophecy of future things.

If a prophet gives a prophecy that does not come to pass, then the fact that it does not come to pass proves the prophet to be a false prophet. If there is not a rapture of the church, then you win the debate and if there is not a thousand year reign on the earth of Jesus Christ, after which the tribulation saints who were slain for their testimony and then raised to reign with him, then you have proven hundreds of prophesies in the covenants, the prophets and the Psalms and the types and the figures of the scriptures to be in error and open to private interpretation.

 

[taisto]

My Bible does not say that.
It says it is the word of God, the testimony of Jesus Christ, and his prophecy of future things.

If a prophet gives a prophecy that does not come to pass, then the fact that it does not come to pass proves the prophet to be a false prophet. If there is not a rapture of the church, then you win the debate and if there is not a thousand year reign on the earth of Jesus Christ, after which the tribulation saints who were slain for their testimony and then raised to reign with him, then you have proven hundreds of prophesies in the covenants, the prophets and the Psalms and the types and the figures of the scriptures to be in error and open to private interpretation.

Read the KJV, Revelation 1. Revelation is showing John pictures, which he describes for us. Not once does he say this is literal history. You are coming into the book with a presupposition that does not stand up to internal evidence within the book.

What I know is that you will not even study the other views of Revelation. You have been taught futurism and you will die holding onto futurism without ever considering anything else. Good luck with that when you face tribulation in your life. You will miss out on the encouragement God has for you in Revelation that will help you in your trials.

 

[JD731]

Read the KJV, Revelation 1. Revelation is showing John pictures, which he describes for us. Not once does he say this is literal history. You are coming into the book with a presupposition that does not stand up to internal evidence within the book.

What I know is that you will not even study the other views of Revelation. You have been taught futurism and you will die holding onto futurism without ever considering anything else. Good luck with that when you face tribulation in your life. You will miss out on the encouragement God has for you in Revelation that will help you in your trials.

If you would have lived in the OT and exercised your same philosophy as you are now, you would have denied the first coming of Christ to the earth, a man who was not killed by his own people when he came because he said he came to save them, but because he said he came to be their King.

Satan is against his Kingship and, by extension, his citizens of his kingdom.

Joh 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Joh 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.


Joh 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.




Mt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

 

[taisto]

If you would have lived in the OT and exercised your same philosophy as you are now, you would have denied the first coming of Christ to the earth, a man who was not killed by his own people when he came because he said he came to save them, but because he said he came to be their King.

I have no idea how having a present tribulation/present millennial view of Revelation leads you to this conclusion. Nearly every sentence in Revelation is connected to the Old Testament writers.

Satan is against his Kingship and, by extension, his citizens of his kingdom.

We agree. Revelation 12 tells us this truth.

Joh 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Joh 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.

Joh 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Why did you quote from verse 19 to 21 and then back to 15? Why not quote Revelation 12?

Mt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

What is your point? Do you imagine that non-futurist Christians are against Christ?

 

[percho]

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev 5:10
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:6

Somebody tell me what I should think and I will think, it.

 

[percho]

I can't think of one Christian who has ruled on the earth, to date, in the righteousness of God.

Got to be future, don't it?

 

[taisto]

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev 5:10
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:6

Somebody tell me what I should think and I will think, it.

Which of these comes first in your thought process?
You quote from Revelation 5 where we reign on earth and then from Revelation 20 where the martyrs reign with Christ. Does Revelation 20 say the martyrs reign on earth with Christ being on earth?
(Revelation 20:1-6)
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand. He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

(1 Peter 2:9-10)
But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light. “Once you had no identity as a people; now you are God’s people. Once you received no mercy; now you have received God’s mercy.”

These martyrs are presently reigning with Christ in heaven.

When we came to faith, we were raised from death to life. This is the first resurrection in Revelation 20. We are made holy by being placed in Christ. (See Ephesians 2:1-10) Those who are martyred here on earth have a special place in heaven to reign with him during this present time in heaven.

 

[JD731]

I have no idea how having a present tribulation/present millennial view of Revelation leads you to this conclusion. Nearly every sentence in Revelation is connected to the Old Testament writers.

Someone who adopts the position of amillennialism has in effect declared that they have missed the entire message and theme of the scriptures and are not to be trusted on any doctrines of the faith. It seems to me that it is generally the people of the Reformed traditions that teach this Amillennialism doctrine. It is surely not the only major doctrine of the scriptures they have wrong. I can say that it is my opinion they have no doctrine right because they do not believe the words of the scriptures and seek to make them say the opposite of their meanings.

When a letter is written that claims to be the testimony of Jesus Christ to the churches and preserved through 20 centuries for the purpose to warn the nations of the coming judgements when he, Jesus Christ, .will put down all opposing rule and destroy all rebels from off the earth, both angels and human, we can expect those who oppose God to show up to moderate the words. This is the day of the Lord judgements that God has been warning about since man was first tempted by the Serpent to change the word of God and to sin against him. The church of Jesus Christ has been charged to teach this truth to the nations at great peril to their own physical well being over the centuries.

The object of Jesus Christ in having the churches to teach this to the Satanically inspired nations is to showcase and highlight the wonderful grace of God of inviting his very enemies to come to him and be saved. That grace is extended at the end of the letter and is an appeal from God to come to him through Jesus Christ instead of facing his wrath in n,these judgements. Look at it here as the last message of the letter.


Revelation 22:16-21
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

The local churches of born again Bible believers have been the arm of the Lord to get the message of deliverance to the nations but the leaven of compromise and false doctrine has done its work and now few churches believe and are instead promoting the kingdom of the adversary by claiming the words of the testimony do not mean what they say. Who will fear God if there is nothing to fear?

Men simply must believe the words of God.

The Revelation from 4:1 is about things to come after the church of Jesus Christ is glorified and taken to heaven to be with Jesus Christ our savior.

 

[taisto]

Someone who adopts the position of amillennialism has in effect declared that they have missed the entire message and theme of the scriptures and are not to be trusted on any doctrines of the faith.

Wow, you really have no clue, do you!?
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, reveals what all this evil in this world is all about. It is given to encourage Christians to endure through their trials and tribulations because Christ wins.

John MacArthur, a full blown futurist/dispensationalist was great friends with RC Sproul, a full blown amillennialist. Their soteriology is nearly identical and they both held God's word in the highest esteem.

You, my friend, do not know what you are talking about.

It seems to me that it is generally the people of the Reformed traditions that teach this Amillennialism doctrine.

John Piper is a Baptist. Alistair Begg is a Baptist. Many Baptists who hold to the 1689 Baptist London Confession hold to the Amillennial view.

It is surely not the only major doctrine of the scriptures they have wrong.

Do you have the ability to share the other doctrines that you think are wrong?

I can say that it is my opinion they have no doctrine right because they do not believe the words of the scriptures and seek to make them say the opposite of their meanings.

Your opinion is coming from an amazing ignorance of anything outside of the views you were taught by someone who also was ignorant.

When a letter is written that claims to be the testimony of Jesus Christ to the churches and preserved through 20 centuries for the purpose to warn the nations of the coming judgements when he, Jesus Christ, .will put down all opposing rule and destroy all rebels from off the earth, both angels and human, we can expect those who oppose God to show up to moderate the words.

The letter is written to Christians, not to warn the nations, but to explain to Christians what is happening and to encourage us to endure through the trials and tribulations that we face. It explains to us why things are the way they are. It gives us hope. It is a blessing to the church and a curse upon the whore of Babylon, the Beast, the false prophet, and ultimately the Dragon (Satan).

This is the day of the Lord judgements that God has been warning about since man was first tempted by the Serpent to change the word of God and to sin against him. The church of Jesus Christ has been charged to teach this truth to the nations at great peril to their own physical well being over the centuries.

The Church is charged to preach Reconciliation with God. (2 Corinthians 5)

The object of Jesus Christ in having the churches to teach this to the Satanically inspired nations is to showcase and highlight the wonderful grace of God of inviting his very enemies to come to him and be saved.

That is not what Revelation 1 tells us. This letter is to be read to the churches who are facing tribulation.

That grace is extended at the end of the letter and is an appeal from God to come to him through Jesus Christ instead of facing his wrath in n,these judgements. Look at it here as the last message of the letter.

Revelation 22:16-21
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Notice that the letter is to the Churches. You are mis-reading the text you share.

The local churches of born again Bible believers have been the arm of the Lord to get the message of deliverance to the nations but the leaven of compromise and false doctrine has done its work and now few churches believe and are instead promoting the kingdom of the adversary by claiming the words of the testimony do not mean what they say. Who will fear God if there is nothing to fear?

We are commissioned to preach reconciliation to the nations. (2 Corinthians 5)
What I see here is you despising brothers and sisters in Christ who aren't like you. You remind me of the parable Jesus gave about the prideful Pharisees who prayed in the temple, thanking God that he was not like the others, while the tax collector would not even look up and beat his breast saying "forgive me God for I am a sinner."
Your comment here shows us your pride in its full colors.

Men simply must believe the words of God.

Indeed, if they do not reconcile with God, they will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

The Revelation from 4:1 is about things to come after the church of Jesus Christ is glorified and taken to heaven to be with Jesus Christ our savior.

Notice that Revelation 4 is all out worship in heaven. It is what John first sees. He sees what happens after all the letters that go to the 7 churches. Revelation 4 shows you that John is not recording his vision along a linear timeline. He sees the end first. He sees Christ reigning. It is meant to show the persecuted believers that Jesus reigns and is King of Kings. It is meant to encourage us.

 

[JD731]

Wow, you really have no clue, do you!?
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, reveals what all this evil in this world is all about. It is given to encourage Christians to endure through their trials and tribulations because Christ wins.

.

You are being silly. The time line for the day of the wrath of God where he judges the world as the world has judged him is 3 1/2 years and he gives that time frame in the letter. There is not a word you and most of those men you mentiond believes. You are super-imposing your preferences over the words of God and you do not need the scriptures to teach it. They are just a prop for amillenialists.

They are wrong about the doctrine of man, the doctrine of sin, the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith, and the list goes on. They are wrong because they do not believe the words of God are true.

I am not driven by emotions, I am driven by what is written in it's context and I am not willing to spiritualize any revelation of God where the text does not demand it. If the text of Rev 20 is figuartive concerning the thousand year reign of Christ on the earth without the presence of Satan, then so is everything that is said about the great white throne judgement and sinners being cast into the lake of fire. Surely you do not want to go there.

 

[kyredneck]

What is the Revelation...

John answers the question in the very first sentence of the book (and the OP):

Re 1:1, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

...and How Should Christians Read it

The same way they should be reading any other scripture:

1. The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed.

 

[taisto]

You are being silly. The time line for the day of the wrath of God where he judges the world as the world has judged him is 3 1/2 years and he gives that time frame in the letter.

I know that someone has taught you to think this is a literal 3.5 years. John (nor Daniel for that matter) never intends for you to take this literally. That is not how John is writing. But, you were taught this and you hold it with a vice grip.

There is not a word you and most of those men you mentiond believes. You are super-imposing your preferences over the words of God and you do not need the scriptures to teach it. They are just a prop for amillenialists.

This is a talking point you have been taught by your mentor(s) but is simply false and demonstratably false if you would ever listen to preachers such as Voddie Baucham, Sinclair Ferguson, and Alistair Begg.

They are wrong about the doctrine of man, the doctrine of sin, the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith, and the list goes on. They are wrong because they do not believe the words of God are true.

Again, what you say is demonstratably false. But, you hold your ignorance with a vice grip that no one but God could remove.

I am not driven by emotions, I am driven by what is written in it's context and I am not willing to spiritualize any revelation of God where the text does not demand it.

Again, this is demonstratably false by the emotions and broad accusations you, yourself, have made.
Since you refuse to "spiritualize" I must assume that you believe Jesus looks exactly like this:
(Revelation 1:13-16)
And standing in the middle of the lampstands was someone like the Son of Man. He was wearing a long robe with a gold sash across his chest. His head and his hair were white like wool, as white as snow. And his eyes were like flames of fire. His feet were like polished bronze refined in a furnace, and his voice thundered like mighty ocean waves. He held seven stars in his right hand, and a sharp two-edged sword came from his mouth. And his face was like the sun in all its brilliance.

For you, Jesus must literally have a sword protruding out of his mouth.

If the text of Rev 20 is figuartive concerning the thousand year reign of Christ on the earth without the presence of Satan, then so is everything that is said about the great white throne judgement and sinners being cast into the lake of fire. Surely you do not want to go there.

First, no one has said Satan isn't present. That is you, forcing your presupposition onto the text.
I shared with you from another text in 2 Thessalonians 2 that tells you God is restraining Satan.

Your struggle is with Revelation 20:1-7 where you create a fantasy from no actual text in the Bible. You create a pre-trib rapture, a 7 year tribulation, a return of Christ, 1000 year reign of Christ, a rebellion against Christ as Jesus leaves yet again, and a third return of Christ...all from these 7 verses. That is entirely irrational to make such a claim with no scripture to back it up.

The final judgment of humanity is corroborated in Matthew 25 and elsewhere so why would I stand against that judgment day?

 

[Piper]

This is a 2 hour discussion of Revelation 20, and the Millenium. It includes a Premillenial, A Post-Millenial, and an Amillenial.
John Piper, Jim Hamilton (professor of New Testament at Southern Seminary in Louisville), Sam Storms (pastor of Bridgeway Church in Oklahoma City), and Doug Wilson (pastor of Christ Church, Moscow, Idaho).

An Evening of Eschatology

It has been really helpful to me. I have read a lot of books, taken graduate level courses on Dispensationalism, and the Book of Revelation.

I'd encourage anyone to watch the video.

 

[timtofly]

Which of these comes first in your thought process?
You quote from Revelation 5 where we reign on earth and then from Revelation 20 where the martyrs reign with Christ. Does Revelation 20 say the martyrs reign on earth with Christ being on earth?
(Revelation 20:1-6)
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand. He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

(1 Peter 2:9-10)
But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light. “Once you had no identity as a people; now you are God’s people. Once you received no mercy; now you have received God’s mercy.”

These martyrs are presently reigning with Christ in heaven.

When we came to faith, we were raised from death to life. This is the first resurrection in Revelation 20. We are made holy by being placed in Christ. (See Ephesians 2:1-10) Those who are martyred here on earth have a special place in heaven to reign with him during this present time in heaven.

Why are only those martyred kings and priest? Why not the whole church serving God day and night in that heavenly temple, per Revelation 7? They also all have physical bodies. That has been true since the Cross. But why only martyred people.

Revelation does not talk about any martyred people at all. That is your presupposition you insert into God's Word.

 

[taisto]

Why are only those martyred kings and priest? Why not the whole church serving God day and night in that heavenly temple, per Revelation 7?

These are the Church in heaven in Revelation 7:9-17.
After this I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white robes and held palm branches in their hands. And they were shouting with a great roar, “Salvation comes from our God who sits on the throne and from the Lamb!” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living beings. And they fell before the throne with their faces to the ground and worshiped God. They sang, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength belong to our God forever and ever! Amen.” Then one of the twenty-four elders asked me, “Who are these who are clothed in white? Where did they come from?” And I said to him, “Sir, you are the one who knows.” Then he said to me, “These are the ones who died in the great tribulation. They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white. “That is why they stand in front of God’s throne and serve him day and night in his Temple. And he who sits on the throne will give them shelter. They will never again be hungry or thirsty; they will never be scorched by the heat of the sun. For the Lamb on the throne will be their Shepherd. He will lead them to springs of life-giving water. And God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”

They also all have physical bodies. That has been true since the Cross. But why only martyred people.

There is a special blessing given to those who were martyred.
(Revelation 20:4-6)
Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation does not talk about any martyred people at all. That is your presupposition you insert into God's Word.

No talk of martyred people in Revelation?

(Revelation 6:9-11)
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of all who had been martyred for the word of God and for being faithful in their testimony. They shouted to the Lord and said, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?” Then a white robe was given to each of them. And they were told to rest a little longer until the full number of their brothers and sisters—their fellow servants of Jesus who were to be martyred—had joined them.

Any other claims you wish to make which the Bible refutes?

 

[timtofly]

These are the Church in heaven in Revelation 7:9-17.
After this I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white robes and held palm branches in their hands. And they were shouting with a great roar, “Salvation comes from our God who sits on the throne and from the Lamb!” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living beings. And they fell before the throne with their faces to the ground and worshiped God. They sang, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength belong to our God forever and ever! Amen.” Then one of the twenty-four elders asked me, “Who are these who are clothed in white? Where did they come from?” And I said to him, “Sir, you are the one who knows.” Then he said to me, “These are the ones who died in the great tribulation. They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white. “That is why they stand in front of God’s throne and serve him day and night in his Temple. And he who sits on the throne will give them shelter. They will never again be hungry or thirsty; they will never be scorched by the heat of the sun. For the Lamb on the throne will be their Shepherd. He will lead them to springs of life-giving water. And God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”


There is a special blessing given to those who were martyred.
(Revelation 20:4-6)
Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.


No talk of martyred people in Revelation?

(Revelation 6:9-11)
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of all who had been martyred for the word of God and for being faithful in their testimony. They shouted to the Lord and said, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?” Then a white robe was given to each of them. And they were told to rest a little longer until the full number of their brothers and sisters—their fellow servants of Jesus who were to be martyred—had joined them.

Any other claims you wish to make which the Bible refutes?

Your translation is flat out wrong.

Tell me two things before I respond further.

Was Jesus martyred? Were the animal sacrifices martyred under the OT law?

 

[taisto]

Your translation is flat out wrong.

Tell me two things before I respond further.

Was Jesus martyred? Were the animal sacrifices martyred under the OT law?

The text says martyred and you are crying about the translation.
Here's the ESV it conveys the same idea.
(Revelation 6:9-11)
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

(Revelation 20:4-6)
Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.


I do not understand what your last two questions have to do with the fact that Revelation talks about the martyrs.

@timtofly the text has proven your claim to be wrong. I hope you can accept what God tells you. Have a good night and blessings to you

 

[JD731]

This is a talking point you have been taught by your mentor(s) but is simply false and demonstratably false if you would ever listen to preachers such as Voddie Baucham, Sinclair Ferguson, and Alistair Begg.

These men are false prophets and false teachers if they are changing the prophecy. John was instructed to write the things that shall be hereafter the 7 churches. He was instructed to write the things he had seen, the things which are, and the things that shall be hereafter. In the letter he distinguished those three categories with words so there would be no doubt which things were past, which were present, and which were future. The trumpet like voice of chapter 4 told him he would show him things that must be hereafter. From this point on Jesus did not show him anything of the past or of the present but only things in the future. One of those things he showed him and that John wrote was there was going to be a thousand years of rule after the Dragon, Satan, was cast into prison and shut up.

Jesus Christ said these things MUST BE. Here, read it for yourself.

Re 4:1 After this (the prophecy of the churches) I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Your teaching is clearly an attempt to spiritualize the truth and is unbelief in what John wrote. It cannot be sugar coated into something less by saying it is just a differing opinion and it does not matter that much.

Since you refuse to "spiritualize" I must assume that you believe Jesus looks exactly like this:
(Revelation 1:13-16)
And standing in the middle of the lampstands was someone like the Son of Man. He was wearing a long robe with a gold sash across his chest. His head and his hair were white like wool, as white as snow. And his eyes were like flames of fire. His feet were like polished bronze refined in a furnace, and his voice thundered like mighty ocean waves. He held seven stars in his right hand, and a sharp two-edged sword came from his mouth. And his face was like the sun in all its brilliance.

For you, Jesus must literally have a sword protruding out of his mouth.

This is silly. The use of likeness and imagery has been used in all the books of the Bible and is a common practice of God to use them so we can better understand them. The fact that Jesus in the vision had white hair, as white as snow, does not mean he did not actually have white hair. It was like wool. But it was hair that John actually saw. He also had eyes, actual eyes. What were they like? Well, they were like flames of fire. Were they flames of fire? No, they were eyes and one thought of flames of fire when he saw them.

But in Re 20, there was a thousand years without any imagery at all. The thousand years MUST BE in the hereafter. The statements are plain. We do not need to guess about them. Many people will die between Re 4 and Re 20 by having their heads cut off and will be resurrected to reign with Christ on the earth for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection and there is another resurrection in the chapter of those souls in hell that will be raised to be judged at the great white throne after the thousand years are passed.

The firstfruits of the resurrection of the just = Jesus and the OT saints who were in paradise in the center of the earth
The main harvest = the calling up of the church, the rapture, in Re 4,
The gleanings of the harvest = the resurrection of the tribulation saints

The trinitarian signature on the resurrection.

Why will people refuse to believe the words and teach contrary to what they say?


Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

There are only two resurrections, and they both have names. They are one thousand years apart.
The first resurrection is called the resurrection of life and is the resurrection of the just. It is in three parts but it is one resurrection. Secondly, there is the resurrection of damnation and is the resurrection of the unjust where the unsaved will be judged for their works and cast into the lake of fire where they will be forever. This is at the end of the day of the Lord and the beginning of the day of God, an eternal day that will never end and no one will ever die again..

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which (we know it will be at the end of it) the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[Re 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is]he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.]

But watch this in the same context.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.