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Featured 7 point Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Piper, Dec 12, 2023.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    What material on line specifically? And please don’t say Wikipedia!
     
    #61 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2023
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Did Jesus say it was?
     
    #62 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2023
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Maybe for reference you might want to go back into the archives and read some of Tom Cassady’s posts. As you know, Tom was a professing Particular Baptist and a pastor in San Diego California. Tom would never claim any association with Calvinists. I seem to remember his saying that they never studied Calvin nor put any store on Calvin, so why adopt his name. Toms emphasis was on Grace. And we PB’s would agree with Tom… someone I consider a valuable teacher.
     
    #63 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2023
  4. Piper

    Piper Active Member
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    I believe that is what he was talking about in Matthew 28, or at least a part.
    Does the bible teach that it is? Yes. A full understanding of how Matthew 28:19-20 is fulfilled requires us to work for the propagation of the gospel to individuals and nations.

    Romans 10
    How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”


    Now, my question to you, Do you personally believe that is is part of your Christian duty to evangelize unbelievers?

    Can you answer that question with a yes or no?
     
    #64 Piper, Dec 14, 2023
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do appreciate their distain for being lumped in with Calvinism. But per their soteriology they are Calvinists.

    I see Primitive Baptists as Calvinists because they hold the same doctrine insofar as salvation.

    They (from what I have read) agree with Calvinists that men are not able to merit or earn salvation, nor can man turn to God apart from God drawing them.

    They agree with Calvinists that God's choice in who to save us not conditioned on man.

    They agree with Calvinists that Christ died to save only the elect (only those whom God chose to save as His people).

    They agree with Calvinists that God's will in salvation is going to be accomplished.

    They agree with Calvinists that God will keep those who He saves from being lost.

    They also a view of the Atonement that was developed within Reformed churches.


    This is not to ignore differenc s (there are differences) but Primitive Baptists developed from Calvinistic Baptist churches in the 19th Century (specifically over missions). The denomination was a reaction to Methodist influenced of the day (at that time the Methodist were the largest and most influential denomination).
     
    #65 JonC, Dec 14, 2023
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The link you provided. I read the same thing across several PB sites, but it is wrong in that it completely misunderstands Calvinism as soteriology (it looks to one sect within historical Presbyterianism, but even here it missed the mark on their Ecclesiology).
     
    #66 JonC, Dec 14, 2023
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    You already have your answer

    Jesus also teaches that we are to wash the feet of the brethren so being compliant, we PB’ s we do what Jesus told us to do. So do you also follow the lord in his requests?
     
    #67 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2023
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    If not Presbyterians, what model do you prefer?
     
    #68 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2023
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    We were there long before there were Calvinists…. Maybe they should get in line with us and become Old school Baptists. That would deflate their egos to be sure.
     
    #69 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2023
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    When we speak of Calvinism as soteriology it is the system Beza worked out through Calvin's work.

    If we speak of historical Calvinism then we are talking about Presbyterian theology...BUT then "Calvinism" is addressing how Calvinists view Communion (as symbolic).

    Luther coined the term "Calvinism" in response to Calvin's rejection of the idea Christ is present in a different way in Communion.
     
    #70 JonC, Dec 14, 2023
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, you were not. Primitive Baptists began as an offshoot from general Baptists in the US. General Baptists were moving towards a Methodist type soteriology while the sect that would form Primitive Baptists held Presbyterian influences.

    This is clear as Primitive Baptists hold John Calvin's theory of Atonement. Methodists do as well, as they came from the same Presbyterian traditions.

    Now, if you want to belong to a pre-Reformation denomination that was never a part of the RCC and holds Baptist doctrine, you should look for a good Mennonite or Amish congregation (but be careful as many Mennonites have become more Reformed). There are Amish churches that will let you attend. But I don't think you can join. Not sure there.
     
    #71 JonC, Dec 14, 2023
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Why would I want to, I’m very happy where I am.
     
    #72 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2023
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I don't know why you would. Just said if you did.

    Are you still planning on moving?
     
    #73 JonC, Dec 14, 2023
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yes, hopefully closer to my grandkids but prices are crazy
     
    #74 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2023
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Still south of NJ, I take it.

    Prices are crazy.
     
    #75 JonC, Dec 14, 2023
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Oh yeah. I think my wife is dragging her feet because her parents are sure to expire soon. She also want to move where there is good cancer care. My son and my grandkids are currently in Florida by Orlando… I’m not convinced it’s the area for us…. I like savanna Georgia and have been looking at Tennessee. I hope that interest rates will level off and real estate will drop to an affordable rate. But I ain’t getting younger.:(
     
    #76 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2023
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Come to the Augusta area. It's a medical hub. 6 hrs. to Orlando (or a fairly cheap flight). :)
     
    #77 JonC, Dec 14, 2023
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Haven’t looked there yet… thanks for the tip. :Thumbsup
     
    #78 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2023
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  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Since Unconditional Election is unbiblical, the flip side, double predestination is likewise unbiblical.
    2) The Seventh point is the "ends justify the means" demonic view cloaked in religious jargon.

    Calvinism denies the premise "your faith has saved you."
    Calvinism denies Paul spoke to unregenerate people using spiritual milk because they could understand and affirmatively respond.
    Calvinism denies Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, those to be saved and those never to be saved.
    Calvinism denies unregenerate pole sought God and embraced to varying degrees the gospel of Christ.

    God chose for salvation individuals utilizing their faith in the truth.
    God chose for salvation individuals rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him.
     
    #79 Van, Dec 14, 2023
  20. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    You lost me at this point.
    You can have your election by virtue of merited works, but you won't find it in the Bible.
     
    #80 taisto, Dec 14, 2023
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