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Featured Landmarkism: What is it?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by taisto, Dec 25, 2023.

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  1. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    Where is the term "water" used in the passages I provided? You cannot force water on the word baptism. The term means to dip into or immerse. It was used for bread or other foods being dipped into a sauce.

    So, we are back to whether we are immersed into Christ by the Holy Spirit or by water. If you claim water, then you will need to concede baptismal regeneration by water and applaud Lutheran, Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox on their teaching.
     
    #21 taisto, Dec 26, 2023
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It is obvious that baptism is most often water baptism (the Eunice telling Phillip "Hey, Dude, there's some water" kinda sums that up).

    So I agree, of course, that baptism indicates immersion in water.

    I am not sure, however, that "Holy Ghost baptism" is a stretch from "baptized with the Holy Ghost". I just don't see the difficulty on this one.


    For my understanding -

    Insofar as the baptism of John vs the baptism in Christ, you are not saying they are the same....right?


    Acts 19:3–6 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
     
    #22 JonC, Dec 26, 2023
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @Alan Gross ,

    For clarity (my question may not be as clear as I wanted in the last post) :

    What is the difference between John's baptism and baptism in Christ?

    Why didn't John's baptism count (why did those people need to be baptized in Christ)?

    When we baptize are we baptized with John's baptism or are we baptized in Christ?
     
    #23 JonC, Dec 26, 2023
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Landmarkism is horse feathers.
     
    #24 robycop3, Dec 27, 2023
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    John’s baptism was of “repentance of sins” John had a transitional ministry that taught a person could have their sins forgiven without going to the Temple and killing a goat.

    He “paved the way” for Jesus’s ministry where Jesus forgave people’s sins based on faith.

    Christian baptism is into the death of Jesus.. dead buried (immersed) and resurrected (symbolically.)

    John’s baptism is not the same as Christian baptism.

    peace to you
     
    #25 canadyjd, Dec 27, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.
    Acts of the Apostles 19:4, ". . . John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. . . ." Who baptized Jesus' first disciples?
     
    #26 37818, Dec 27, 2023
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    No, I’m correct. John’s baptism was not Christian baptism. John pointed to Jesus, he paved the way for a forgiveness of sins that didn’t require going to the Temple and killing a goat.

    Do you think Jesus was baptized into His own death by John? Scripture only mentions two disciples of John that became disciples of Jesus, so we can assume John baptized those two.

    If John’s baptism was the same as as Christian baptism, there would be no issue in Acts, and no reason for “another” baptism.

    peace to you
     
    #27 canadyjd, Dec 28, 2023
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You didn't understand. John explained Jesus would give the Holy Spirit, Mark 1:8. The disciples Paul spoke to had not understood. Per Acts of the Apostles 19:1-3. So they were re-baptized, per Acts of the Apostles 19:4-5.
     
    #28 37818, Dec 28, 2023
  9. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    When I was in class Leon taught about the Whitsitt controversy. He mentioned that Whitsitt taught the same thing as he was teaching. Landmarkism was an attempt to parallel the apostolic succession of the RCC. Leon mentioned the problem is crossing some heretics. The document one may want to look at is "The Trail of Blood". So much for the religious politicians.
     
    #29 gb93433, Dec 28, 2023
  10. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking similarly that it was its own version of apostolic succession.

    Now, to be fair, we all can (theoretically) trace our faith back to the apostles or early disciples (if a genealogy had been kept) so there is a succession. Hebrews 12:1-2 presents this great legacy of the faith that is our great cloud of witnesses. But, when a group, like the RCC (and it seems the primitive baptists ?) comes along and claims spokesmanship for God by apostolic succession, that seems ripe for a massive fallacy as traditions are created that the apostles never claimed.
    Is Landmarkism a peculiar view of the primitive baptist sect?
     
    #30 taisto, Dec 28, 2023
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    'Says a lot'.
     
    #31 kyredneck, Dec 28, 2023
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The only Apostolic succession are the New Testament documents themselves.
     
    #32 37818, Dec 28, 2023
  13. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    There are many sects in Christianity. Note, I do not say cult.
    Definition of a sect:
    Do you trace your direct heritage all the way back to the apostles? If so, do you have the lineage documented for us to see?

    Do primitive baptists claim landmarkism?
     
    #33 taisto, Dec 28, 2023
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    9 and think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Mt 3

    7 point Calvinism
     
    #34 kyredneck, Dec 28, 2023
  15. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    That's a nice verse. I don't know why you posted it.

    I showed you how I use the word, sect, so you know it's not a negative term. I asked you this:

    Do you trace your direct heritage all the way back to the apostles? If so, do you have the lineage documented for us to see?

    Do primitive baptists claim landmarkism?

    Do you have an answer?
     
    #35 taisto, Dec 28, 2023
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    That doesn’t surprise me. Anything outside of your ridged hardcore Calvinist/Puritan/ Presbyterian box you’re incapable of grasping.
     
    #36 kyredneck, Dec 28, 2023
  17. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    When you're done with your rant, would you actually answer the question that is pertinent to Landmarkism?

    Do you trace your direct heritage all the way back to the apostles? If so, do you have the lineage documented for us to see?

    Do primitive baptists claim landmarkism?

    Do you have an answer?
     
    #37 taisto, Dec 28, 2023
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think I understand completely.

    Salvation is not about “understanding completely” it is about a relationship. There is no such thing as “rebaptism”. You are baptized into the death of Jesus, or you are not. John’s baptism was of repentance. That is not Christian baptism.

    Peace to you
     
    #38 canadyjd, Dec 29, 2023
  19. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    Who baptizes you into Christ Jesus?

    Is it the Holy Spirit or is it your pastor/friend who dips you under the water at whatever location the fellowship has chosen?
     
    #39 taisto, Dec 29, 2023
  20. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Immersion into water is a public display that symbolically represents what has already occurred, the person’s death, burial resurrection as a new person in Christ, imo

    peace to you
     
    #40 canadyjd, Dec 29, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
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