Is It Nothing to You?

[KenH]

“Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by? Behold and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow, which is done unto me, wherewith the Lord hath afflicted me in the day of his fierce anger."—Lamentations 1:12.

Come hither, ye careless and unconcerned; come hither, ye fools, that make a mock of sin; come hither, ye drunkards and defiled of every description and character, whose cups of licentiousness and mirth have mingled for him the wormwood and the gall; behold Jesus, and say, "is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by?" My soul, bring the question home to thine own heart, and never give over the solemn meditation. It is indeed to thee every thing that is momentous and eternally interesting. Yes! precious Jesus! every wound of thine speaks; every feature, every groan, every cry pleads for me, and with me. If I forget thee, O thou bleeding Lamb! let my right hand forget her cunning. If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; yea, if I prefer not the solemn meditation of Gethsemane and Calvary above my chief joy.

- excerpt from Robert Hawker's The Poor Man's Morning and Evening Portions, January 7, Evening

 

[tyndale1946]

“Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by? Behold and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow, which is done unto me, wherewith the Lord hath afflicted me in the day of his fierce anger."—Lamentations 1:12.

Come hither, ye careless and unconcerned; come hither, ye fools, that make a mock of sin; come hither, ye drunkards and defiled of every description and character, whose cups of licentiousness and mirth have mingled for him the wormwood and the gall; behold Jesus, and say, "is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by?" My soul, bring the question home to thine own heart, and never give over the solemn meditation. It is indeed to thee every thing that is momentous and eternally interesting. Yes! precious Jesus! every wound of thine speaks; every feature, every groan, every cry pleads for me, and with me. If I forget thee, O thou bleeding Lamb! let my right hand forget her cunning. If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; yea, if I prefer not the solemn meditation of Gethsemane and Calvary above my chief joy.

- excerpt from Robert Hawker's The Poor Man's Morning and Evening Portions, January 7, Evening

I was going to quote something from the Bible, and I can but one secular song that has stuck in my mind for along time was sung by Kris Kristofferson and I know its not in the hymn book but maybe it should be?... Brother Glen

Why me Lord, what have I ever done
To deserve even one
Of the pleasures I've known
Tell me Lord, what did I ever do
That was worth loving You
Or the kindness You've shown

Lord help me Jesus, I've wasted it
So help me Jesus, I know what I am
Now that I know that I've needed you
So Help me Jesus, my soul's in Your hand

Tell me Lord, if you think there's a way
I can try to repay
All I've taken from You
Maybe Lord, I can show someone else
What I've been through myself
On my way back to You

Lord, help me Jesus, I've wasted it
So Help me Jesus, I know what I am
Now that I know that I've needed you
So help me Jesus, my soul's in Your hand

Lord, help me Jesus, I've wasted it
So Help me Jesus, I know what I am
Now that I know that I've needed you
So help me Jesus, my soul's in Your hand
Jesus, my soul's in Your hand

 

[CJP69]

“Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by? Behold and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow, which is done unto me, wherewith the Lord hath afflicted me in the day of his fierce anger."—Lamentations 1:12.

As good a verse as any that exists to prove that God is not impassible and therefore not immutable.

Come hither, ye careless and unconcerned; come hither, ye fools, that make a mock of sin; come hither, ye drunkards and defiled of every description and character, whose cups of licentiousness and mirth have mingled for him the wormwood and the gall; behold Jesus, and say, "is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by?"

Come hither - if God predestined you to come - ye who God predestined to be careless and unconcerned, ye who God preordained would be drunkards and defiled of character. Not that you're any worse than every other totally depraved human being that God ever created!

My soul, bring the question home to thine own heart, and never give over the solemn meditation.

Assuming, of course, that God predestined that you never give over the solemn meditation. Otherwise, never mind.

It is indeed to thee every thing that is momentous and eternally interesting. Yes! precious Jesus! every wound of thine speaks; every feature, every groan, every cry pleads for me, and with me.

But no matter how earnest the pleading might be, I cannot hear it for I am dead in sin and completely incapable of hearing anything.

If I forget thee, O thou bleeding Lamb!

It's because you predestined me to forget!

let my right hand forget her cunning.

Unless you've predestined otherwise, of course.

If I do not remember thee,

It is because you've decreed my amnesia and I could not have remember had I wanted to, which I couldn't have even wanted to unless that too had been predestined.

let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth;

Or not, whichever you prefer to arbitrarily ordain.

yea, if I prefer not the solemn meditation of Gethsemane and Calvary above my chief joy.

then my preference will be by your own will, as it always was anyway.

-----------------------------

Now, if that seems too cynical to you then ask yourself whether God predestined that I be so cynical and maybe you'll start to see the point I'm making here.

The point is not to be cynical because I happen to think the sentiment communicated in this quotation is excellent. What I don't understand and have never had anyone even try to explain to me is how any of it fits inside the mouth (mind) of someone who believes in the doctrines which we collectively refer to as Calvinism. Indeed, when you talk to a Calvinist on just a casual basis, you can't tell by the things they say or the decisions they make that they believe that God has predestined everything or that every man woman and child is totally depraved or that one must be regenerated to even grasp any of the concepts spoken of in this quotation. They both speak and act as if MY DOCTRINE is true and that there's is not. Their entire lives are lived day to day to day with dozens of instances where are forced to both speak and act as if Calvinism is false.

How is it possible that they don't notice it? How is it possible that those who do notice it aren't persuaded by their own every day lives that there is something about their theological worldview that massively contradicts the reality in which they exist?

I don't get it!

 

[37818]

. . . prove that God . . . not immutable.

Malachi 3:6, ". . . For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. . . ."


The Immutability and Impassibility of God - The Gospel Coalition

 

[CJP69]

Malachi 3:6, ". . . For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. . . ."


The Immutability and Impassibility of God - The Gospel Coalition

Once again, you completely ignored the argument made.

Lamentations 1:12 Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by? Behold and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow, which is done unto me, wherewith the Lord hath afflicted me in the day of his fierce anger.
​

As good a verse as any that exists to prove that God is not impassible and therefore not immutable.

Malachi 3:6 is in reference to God's character and is not even implying the doctrine of immutability which teaches that the God who BECAME a man and DIED and then ROSE from the dead, cannot change in anyway whatsoever.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.​

 

[KenH]

I don't get it!

I had spent most of life as one who didn't "get it", as the Bible was basically a closed book to me as far as my understanding was concerned. It wasn't until God gave me eyes to see and ears to hear that my understanding was opened(Matthew 13:10-17, Acts of the Apostles 16:14).

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[37818]

Once again, you completely ignored the argument made.

Lamentations 1:12 Is it nothing to you, all ye that pass by? Behold and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow, which is done unto me, wherewith the Lord hath afflicted me in the day of his fierce anger.
​

As good a verse as any that exists to prove that God is not impassible and therefore not immutable.

Malachi 3:6 is in reference to God's character and is not even implying the doctrine of immutability which teaches that the God who BECAME a man and DIED and then ROSE from the dead, cannot change in anyway whatsoever.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.​

Only the Son of God also has both a finite and infinite nature. All three Persons both individually and are the same infinite God.

The Son has only changed how He was with God, but never ceased to be God.

 

[CJP69]

I had spent most of life as one who didn't "get it", as the Bible was basically a closed book to me as far as my understanding was concerned. It wasn't until God gave me eyes to see and ears to hear that my understanding was opened(Matthew 13:10-17, Acts of the Apostles 16:14).

God is just, therefore Cavlinism is false.

Calvinism is false, therefore God didn't teach it to you.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That's my line!

Yours is the doctrine of Greek philosophy! Yours is the theology proper of Socrates (a homosexual Greek philosopher who liked to have sex with young boys)! Yours is the doctrine that has to be read into the scriptures, yours is the doctrine that is flagrantly and intentionally irrational!

 

[CJP69]

Only the Son of God also has both a finite and infinite nature.

This is your doctrine but not what the bible teaches.

However, even by your own words, God is not immutable! God the Son was not always "finite" was He?

All three Persons both individually and are the same infinite God.

The Son has only changed how He was with God, but never ceased to be God.

So you've defeated your own doctrine with your own words here.

You yourself just said that all three Persons [including God the Son] are the same God and that "[God] the Son changed".

You just, in essence, repeated MY argument that I made a few posts ago when I let God's word make the argument for me...

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.​

In short, what you are doing here is trying to have it both ways. You want to maintain that God is immutable because that's what everything else that makes you a Calvinist is predicated on but you can't deny that God died and remain a Christian. What a place to find yourself! You're unable to reject either a doctrine that is demonstrably tied to a perverted Greek philosopher that says God is immutable nor the undeniably and purely biblical doctrine that says that your Savior God became a human being, died for your sin, rose from the dead and remains a risen and glorified human being to this day and forever more.

 

[KenH]

God is just

The god of your imagination is one like the gods of Greek mythology that are no more than what is shown today in superhero movies - they can fail just like humans, they don't always get what they desire, they can be defeated.

Psalm 50:21 Thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself.

 

[CJP69]

The god of your imagination is one like the gods of Greek mythology that are no more than what is shown today in superhero movies - they can fail just like humans, they don't always get what they desire, they can be defeated.

Psalm 50:21 Thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself.

And you are too dishonest to respond to the arguments that are made. Instead you parade your ignorance like it was a badge of honor!


Do you mean, by the way, like the God of the prophet Isaiah who put these words in God's own mouth....

Isaiah 5:1
Now let me sing to my Well-beloved
A song of my Beloved regarding His vineyard:

My Well-beloved has a vineyard
On a very fruitful hill.
2 He dug it up and cleared out its stones,
And planted it with the choicest vine.
He built a tower in its midst,
And also made a winepress in it;
So He expected it to bring forth good grapes,
But it brought forth wild grapes.

3 “And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah,
Judge, please, between Me and My vineyard.
4 What more could have been done to My vineyard
That I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
Did it bring forth wild grapes?
5 And now, please let Me tell you what I will do to My vineyard:
I will take away its hedge, and it shall be burned;
And break down its wall, and it shall be trampled down.
6 I will lay it waste;
It shall not be pruned or dug,
But there shall come up briers and thorns.
I will also command the clouds
That they rain no rain on it.”

7 For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel,
And the men of Judah are His pleasant plant.
He looked for justice, but behold, oppression;
For righteousness, but behold, a cry for help.​

or like the God of the prophet Jeremiah who put these word's into God own mouth...

Jeremiah 19:4 “Because they have forsaken Me and made this an alien place, because they have burned incense in it to other gods whom neither they, their fathers, nor the kings of Judah have known, and have filled this place with the blood of the innocents 5 (they have also built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or speak, nor did it come into My mind),
​

Do you reject Luke doctrine because he states plainly....

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.
(The Greek word translated "will" is "boulē" (Strongs G2316). It is the strongest word for "will" in the Greek language and it DOES mean that God wanted the Pharisees and lawyers to repent and be baptized. But God didn't get what He wanted!)​

Do you make the same accusation toward Stephen because he testified before the Sanhedrin the following...

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.​

Okay, now its your turn to completely ignore everything I've just presented to you.

 

[KenH]

Of course, the natural man resists God; the natural man cannot do anything else.

God's elect are made willing - Psalms 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou hast the dew of thy youth.

(emphasis mine)

 

[KenH]

Okay, now its your turn to completely ignore everything I've just presented to you.

And yet you keep responding to me.

 

[37818]

This is your doctrine but not what the bible teaches.

However, even by your own words, God is not immutable! God the Son was not always "finite" was He?

So you've defeated your own doctrine with your own words here.

You do not know what you are talking about.

John 1;1, ". . . and the Word was with God . . . ."
John 1:2, ". . . was in the beginning with God. . . ."
This Greek "with the God" is used 20 times of someone else other than God.

 

[Silverhair]

I was going to quote something from the Bible, and I can but one secular song that has stuck in my mind for along time was sung by Kris Kristofferson and I know its not in the hymn book but maybe it should be?... Brother Glen

Why me Lord, what have I ever done
To deserve even one
Of the pleasures I've known
Tell me Lord, what did I ever do
That was worth loving You
Or the kindness You've shown

Lord help me Jesus, I've wasted it
So help me Jesus, I know what I am
Now that I know that I've needed you
So Help me Jesus, my soul's in Your hand

Tell me Lord, if you think there's a way
I can try to repay
All I've taken from You
Maybe Lord, I can show someone else
What I've been through myself
On my way back to You

Lord, help me Jesus, I've wasted it
So Help me Jesus, I know what I am
Now that I know that I've needed you
So help me Jesus, my soul's in Your hand

Lord, help me Jesus, I've wasted it
So Help me Jesus, I know what I am
Now that I know that I've needed you
So help me Jesus, my soul's in Your hand
Jesus, my soul's in Your hand

Great song by a great singer.

Kristofferson said he went with friends to the church service where he was moved by Larry Gatlin's song "Help Me (Lord)". He said that he had never thought of needing help, but he was at a low point in his life. When the pastor asked the congregation, "Is anybody feeling lost?" "Up goes my hand," Kristofferson says. The Pastor then asked, "Are you ready to accept Christ? Kneel down there." "I'm kneeling there," Kristofferson continues, "and I carry a big load of guilt around...and I was just out of control, crying. It was a release. It really shook me up." Kristofferson later said, "It was just a personal thing I was going through at the time. I had some kind of experience that I can't even explain." Why Me (Kris Kristofferson song) - Wikipedia

 

[CJP69]

You do not know what you are talking about.

Saying it doesn't make it so!

If I'm so ignorant as to not be able to read your post then, by all means, educate me!

You won't because you know that I do know what I'm talking about and this just you excusing yourself from the discussion because you've got nothing of substance to respond with.

Tonight, when you're lying in bed and your mind gets quiet, maybe let the fact that you are forced to live your life every day as if your doctrine is false ruminate in your mind.

John 1;1, ". . . and the Word was with God . . . ."
John 1:2, ". . . was in the beginning with God. . . ."
This Greek "with the God" is used 20 times of someone else other than God.

Well, isn't it just purely shear blind luck then that the very same author, in the exact same sentence, overtly and unambiguously states that "the Word WAS God" and then states in no uncertain terms that the same Word created every created thing that exists.

We then have the same author again putting the following words directly in the mouth of the Risen Lord Jesus Christ....

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (I dare you to do a word search for the phrase "the almighty" and then show up here and tell me it refers to someone other than God Himself!)

10b a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,”

17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.​

Oh! The lengths Calvinists with stretch to preserve the doctrine of a perverted Greek philosopher (i.e. Socrates). No amount of obscuring the plain reading of God's word is out of bounds if the goal is to preserve the pagan notion that God is immutable.

 

[CJP69]

And yet you keep responding to me.

And will continue to do so. You're the easiest Calvinist to defeat I've ever found. You're too big of an opportunity for me to ignore. If you don't think it has an impact, then you just go right on ahead and keep thinking that!

 

[KenH]

And will continue to do so. You're the easiest Calvinist to defeat I've ever found. You're too big of an opportunity for me to ignore. If you don't think it has an impact, then you just go right on ahead and keep thinking that!

Apparently, you just don't know when you are beaten as I pin you...1 2 3...over and over again.

 

[CJP69]

Apparently, you just don't know when you are beaten as I pin you...1 2 3...over and over again.

You're a buffoon.

You've never once responded to any argument I've ever made except to simply state or repeat your doctrine. You've got nothing and you know it and so does everyone who sees your childishness.

Now go find another gif file to post because there's maybe a third grader who'll be impressed by it!

 

[KenH]

You're a buffoon.